[HH1.0] Emperor's Children Tactica

[Hesh Kadesh]

Eidolon, Palatines, Dreadclaw maybe Forge Lord with Rad nade and boarding shield, dot around power weapons or phoenix Spears as points allow.

 

Bring down 1st turn with DPA, tank shots on AV12, move 6", disembark 6", assault 2d6+1. Eat face.

[Theredknight]

I Max out squad size with palatines, then go 5 spears 5 Sabres. I usually transport them in a raider or dreadclaw. I don't put eidolon in there, but that's my personsal preferance.

 

Kakophoni - most of on here proxy them as volkites/hbolters/flamers as the weapon profile for them is dreadful. There are like 8 stages of hope to go through and you might get another wound or two if you are lucky. The damage output sucks compared to volkites..or anything really. Gets hot is something that isn't in any of the fluff, or necessary for them. So by all means try them. But I did and they were a waste of points. I actually use mine as volkite calivers Tac support squad for home objective scoring.

 

Phoenix terminators - over priced for an average terminator with an ok weapon. Might do some damage to start against opposing Termies, then when they don't kill enough will suffer wound after wound until they are destroyed.

I converted some of mine into Termies weilding weapons, look good to!

Again, damage potential isn't there, unless you spend up loads on characters like forge Lord and chaplain to counteract how weak they are. They might be a fluffy unit to shield fulgrim, but why bother when you can have 20 power armed bodies instead?

 

Tarvitz - very meh, I don't think I used him at all looking at his stat line. Id prefer traitor all the way, as you hamper yourself with a pants character.

 

Rylanor - overcosted for what he is, and he seems to be unsure of his weapon load out.blooking at him he's a close support/ assault kinda guy, but for I think it's 30/40 points cheaper you can have the same load out if you wanted. For those points it's worth taking a vexilla instead. I think I tred him once, bubble wrapped in guys to give him a cover save, he was ok that day, but generally if prefer a deredeo or a mortis/ 2 kheres temptor.

 

Fulgrim- needs transport and wound takers, once he's in there he's good, quite vulnerable to shooting if you leave him in the open, he's no Vulkan in that respect, but he's not supposed to be!

 

Hope that helps :-)

[Joe]

Deredeo > Kakophani, to put it bluntly.

 

Thought as much. To be honest I might just drop Maru Skara in favour of Pride of the Legion at this point; being able to run the Vet Tac Squads with access to the additional wargear is much more to my liking.

[Caillum]

Sometimes it's not just about trying to get the list to play like EC, but instead getting it to look like EC. This is why I would run Kakophoni as volkite Heavy Support - they are so much better and they can still be "Kakophoni" in all but rules.

 

Have people mixed in 40k Noise Marine parts into their Heresy models to make a debauched Emperor's Children army, like from Angel Exterminatus?

[Slips]

Sometimes it's not just about trying to get the list to play like EC, but instead getting it to look like EC. This is why I would run Kakophoni as volkite Heavy Support - they are so much better and they can still be "Kakophoni" in all but rules.

 

Have people mixed in 40k Noise Marine parts into their Heresy models to make a debauched Emperor's Children army, like from Angel Exterminatus?

I havent seen any but it probably has been done :p

 

And yes, Using EC specific models to represent something else is totally a valid way of at least visually representing the Army. I've seen a few (Like TheRedKnight) use Phoenix Guard Bodies and Arms as Regular, albeit Blinged out, Terminators and Palatine Blades as Squad Sergeants Instead.

 

Theres a Lot you can do to bring out the Flavor of the army even if it isnt using their legion specific units - though it is a shame that they're hard to put to good use.

[Joe]

I considered it, however they look awfully dated. You'd probably have more luck using FW's Kakophani as a base and working from there.

[Theredknight]

I love the look of ec as well! I should use my Termies more after the conversion work really,

Kakophoni could do with some decals tbh, I use them a lot as other weapons systems.

 

I'm in the middle of re basing everyone atm, but will have to do an army shot of them at some point.

[Joe]

Right, I've got my 2k PotL list put together. I won't have an opportunity to run it for a while, though, as I'll be moving house by the end of next week.

 

HQ

 

- Legion Praetor - 225pts - Master of the Legion: Pride of the Legion, Artificer Armour, Jump Pack, Iron Halo, Sonic Shrieker, Mastercrafted Archaeotech Pistol, Lucid Blade

 

 

Elites

 

- Apothecarian Detachment - 130pts - x2 Legion Apothecary (Artificer Armour, Power Sword)

 

- Palatine Blade Squad - 355pts - Palatine Prefector, x9 Palatine Warrior, Jump Packs, Sonic Shriekers

 

 

Troops

 

- Legion Veteran Tactical Squad - 295pts - Legion Veteran Sergeant (/w Artificer Armour & Power Fist), x8 Legion Veteran Space Marines, Legion Vexilla, Nuncio-Vox, x1 Heavy Bolter and Suspensor Web, Veteran Tactics: Sniper

 

- Legion Veteran Tactical Squad - 295pts - Legion Veteran Sergeant (/w Artificer Armour & Power Fist), x8 Legion Veteran Space Marines, Legion Vexilla, Nuncio-Vox, x1 Heavy Bolter and Suspensor Web, Veteran Tactics: Sniper, Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier (/w Auxiliary Drive)

 

 

Heavy Support

 

- Deredeo Pattern Dreadnought - 220pts - Aiolos Missile Launcher

 

- Legion Heavy Support Squad - 292pts - Legion Sergeant (/w Artificer Armour & Bolter), x6 Legion Space Marines (/w Volkite Culverin)

 

- Legion Sicaran Battle Tank - 185pts - Auxiliary Drive, Lascannons

Total Points; 1997pts

 

Plan is the Praetor will run with the Palatines, sticking close enough to the Sicaran and a LVTS Rhino to provide some cover until they can get into CQC. The extra LVTS and LHSS will roll together on the flank to threaten the enemy and possibly draw some fire away from the Praetor and co. whilst the dread will trundle along and do what it does best.

 

Might need to swap a few things about.

[Theredknight]

Hi,

 

Id swap out that lucid blade for a paragon and some digi lasers. Unfortunately our relic is no good, especially for our characters who must challenge.i want my praetor to skillfully dismember the opponent, not cower and try to save his life! But your welcome to try it of course :-)

 

It's usually worth sticking a combi weapon on the rhinos, sometimes it helps. Maybe dozer blades, but I always roll bad for tests.

[Joe]

I'll roll it once and see how it fares; neither my FLGS or LGW allow named characters in our 30k games so it shouldn't be an issue.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Take Eidolon. He's just better; for cheaper (!), you get the same, but an at Initiative S8 AP2 charge. He's not MC'd his Archaeotech, but who really needs that extra 1/battle reroll for the cost of 3 meltabombs? At the end of the day, killing models while shooting them is only going to make it harder for you to charge. Talking of which, you get +1" charge when Eidolon charges, same for all the dudes within 12". This is 20pts saved, sticking you at 1977pts

 

Palatines, awesome unit, but you have a lot; these will cop a lot of fire if Deep Striking, and maybe better footslogging. Dropping one of them gives you a further 32pts to spend; leaving you with 1945pts

 

Personally not sold on the Heavy Bolter Sniper. As ridiculous as it sounds, the Heavy Flamer Sniper is pretty immense due to the amount of models you hit. After all, you still get to fire your Bolt Pistol if need be. It's 60pts for 2x additional Veterans with Heavy Flamers, leaving you at 2005pts; dropping a single Nuncio Vox (with only a single unit coming in, Nuncio's aren't as useful as they're made out to be), gives you 1995pts, which is enough for a power weapon on the Palatine Squad, but dropping another of them gives you enough for a couple of Phoenix Power Spears and a couple of normal Power Spears.

 

These changes turn a unit from a potential charge of;

 

11 Hammer of Wrath Attacks

3-5 S5 AP3 I6 attacks

40 S4 AP- I5 Rending Attacks

 

to 

 

11 Hammer of Wrath Attacks

5 S8 AP2 I6 Attacks

6 S5 AP2 I5 Attacks

8 S5 AP3 I5 Attacks

24 S4 AP- I5 Rending Attacks

 

The difference is 8-9ish Marines for the first squad (which admittedly may be enough), but 13-14 in the latter option, for no extra cost. It does bump them up the threat radar though, as it is one of your few options for dealing with Terminators, though, which you otherwise are reliant on a pair of lascannons and a ton of rending to deal with.

[Slips]

Take Eidolon. He's just better; for cheaper (!), you get the same, but an at Initiative S8 AP2 charge. He's not MC'd his Archaeotech, but who really needs that extra 1/battle reroll for the cost of 3 meltabombs? At the end of the day, killing models while shooting them is only going to make it harder for you to charge. Talking of which, you get +1" charge when Eidolon charges, same for all the dudes within 12". This is 20pts saved, sticking you at 1977pts

 

*Snip*

While I'd normally agree, he has the Caveat that his local game stores allow named characters to be used for some reason.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Ah, missed that. Think it was posted while I was typing. 

 

It's a shame, they often include unique mechanics which are a lot more fun to use.

 

Ah well, point still stands though, it could do with being cheaper- my favourite two look like

 

Praetor, Paragon Blade, Powerfist, Digital Lasers, Iron Halo, Jump Pack, Sonic Shriekers = 205pts, Hammer of Wrath, 7 Attacks on the Charge, either I1 S8 Ap2, or I6 S5 AP2.

 

or 

 

Praetor, Paragon Blade, Digital Lasers, Boarding Shield, Meltabombs, Jump Pack, Sonic Shriekers, Void Shield Harness = 205pts 6 S5 AP2 attacks on the charge or a meltabomb for MC's/Walkers (could be a bad thing, as that would mean you can't fall back due to "Can't Hurt It" rule though, and 1 MB isn't enough); and dropping the 4++ for a 5++ in Combat, in exchange for an ablative AV12 Bubble to tank anything that's not S7 or higher from overwatching your bros to death, and a blind grenade on the charge to make enemies hit you on a 5+ rather than 4+ potentially, as well as making you more resilient to enemy charges; means no Rage, Furious Charge, I5 Dark Fury, or Onslaught from Night Raptors.

[Joe]

I'll swap out the Lucid Blade for a Paragon Blade and try running that before making any further alterations. I probably won't need the NV at all seeing as I won't be deep-striking with the Palatines.

[SchultzChaos]

Hey folks of the 3rd! 

I'm new to HH, but have had eyes on the game since its birth. And I've really - REALLY - wanted to start with a Legion! Now, I'm a long time Chaos-player, and still remembers the good old days of 3.5. I converted a Slaanesh Cult for 7th edition of 40k, with heavy roots from the 3rd legion - but grew quite bored with the playstyle (standing still and shooting with sonic weapons was quite boring). So I looked at my beautiful models the other day and thought "But you all could just be the 3rd legion after it descended into madness". So now I'm here and looking for some tips and neat tricks!

 

I'm opting for Pride of the Legion, so I can justify the low model count (for the moment I only want a small army). What I got is;

12-15 CCWs and BP armed marines

A scattered few with bolters. 

1 Apothecary

1 Praetor-looking Lord

1 Consul-looking Champion

Las-pred

Rhino

Alot of marines with sonic blasters

Some marines with blastmasters (I think I'll be using the sonic weaponry as "count as" weapons).

2 Dreads

6 termies with lightning claws and combi-weapons. 

 

I'm prepared to convert them if I have to (and is quite eager for it actually!), but before I do it I would appreciate for any help that could give me a clear picture of what I should be aiming for. 

 

So... Go team pink! 

[WolfOfHorus]

Unfortunately the Kakophoni have the same playstyle as Noise Marines if not less effective. Prepare for mediocrity. Your models seem like a good start, it's merely what type of army do you want?

 

Also :cuss yeah. The Slaanesh relics were the best in 3.5.

 

And it's the purple team, not pink.

[Joe]

To be honest I wouldn't be surprised if pink was dropped in favour of black/purple by Forgeworld.

[Theredknight]

Just wondering, anyone thought about giving seekers a whirl with outflanking? Scorpius bolts look pretty swish with the shred and rending. Won't stop the fnp, but you could also try getting the right side with sniper plas vets. Pretty sure it'd ruin most units?

[SchultzChaos]

Unfortunately the Kakophoni have the same playstyle as Noise Marines if not less effective. Prepare for mediocrity. Your models seem like a good start, it's merely what type of army do you want?

 

Also yeah. The Slaanesh relics were the best in 3.5.

 

And it's the purple team, not pink.

 

I think I want to opt for a close quarter-army, as of what I've read the I-bonus is better used there (obviously). And about my miniatures, I'm ready to convert them to better suit HH. What I've heard about the Kakophonii makes me a sad panda, so I have no intention for the moment to put them in my army. So all the Sonic Blaster-dudes will be converted or use their sonic blasters as "count as" (I mean obviously they have pimped their weapons!). 

 

But... I love pink... p_q

Edited August 27, 2015 by SchultzChaos

[Slips]

Sonic Weapons make great Stand-ins for Volkite.

[Caustic63]

My second big Forgeworld shipment of Emperor's Children has finally arrived today. The models I ordered are:

Lord Commander Eidolon

Palatine Blades (5 men)

2x Kakophoni (10 men)

Emperor's Children Contemptor Dreadnaught

Contemptor Kheres, Autocannon, CCW

Emperor's Children Sonic Dreadnaught

Emperor's Children Transfer Sheet

Emperor's Children Brass Etchings

I'm hoping this will kickstart my army, which admittedly I've been building more towards 40K then 30K (this is for practical reasons - 30K games are much rarer in my area compared to weekly 40K).

When I put together my Phoenix Terminators last summer I wanted them to be dual purpose - usable and effective in both game systems. To this end I had the Phoenix Power Spears be 'count as' Lightning Claws and added some Legion Combi-Meltas mag locked to their legs to allow for some deep strike tank hunting. Later on I realized that if the unit fails to kill its target it's most likely going to end up in an assault - and probably against something that it can't hurt with only Lighnting Claws. To that end I came up with a conversion and replaced one of the hands of the Icon of Excess bearer with a Chainfist while keeping the Spear in his other hand. I'm pretty happy with how this turned out.

One of the key draws to Emperor's Children for me is the Noise Marines. They have quite a lot of firepower for a Troops unit (unlike their Heavy Support 30k Counterpart). Once the Emperor's Children upgrade kits came out at the end of last summer I was inspired to use them to put together some Noise Marines with a bit more of a "Immediate Post Heresy" flare. A few hundred dollars and a lot of painting work later and I ended up with this:

So when I came to planning my latest purchases I had a number of important thoughts on my mind:

The Kakophoni models belong in this army 100%, but when I already have 40K Sonic Blasters and Blastmasters what would I use them for? I value continuity so it would have to be something different like proxy Lascannons, Missile Launchers, Autocannons or possibly even Special Weapons. A recent thought I've had is to use them as Blastmasters and instead use the 40K Blastmasters for Heavy Weapons. What do you guys think?

What use would I have for an Eidolon model in a 40K army? Since I can't use his Thunderhammer or his rules, evidently I'm going to have to be creative. How about a Chaos Lord with an Artifact weapon? Spineshiver Blade? Murder Sword? Blade of the Relentless? Fortunately he has a unique looking pistol, which opens the door for it to be counted as just about any Combi-Weapon or the Burning Brand. My current Chaos Lord is on a Mount of Slaanesh (converted to the left above) and I use his Outflank with a squad of Chosen to deliver some precison Plasmagun blows with Draznicht from the side!

The Brass Etchings should allow me to complete the Chaos Sicarian I've had lying around unpainted, and the Sonic Dreadnaught Body will allow me to complete the model which I've had the arms for since Christmas (my mom made the mistake of buying only the arms -_- ).

The Emperor's Children Contemptor is on my bought list purely for the model (much like the Kakophoni). As a Chaos Contemptor dedicated to Slaanesh though I can see it being pretty useful on the tabletop with a Plasmablaster and Butcher Cannon (four shot Autocannon with +1 S).

In the future I'm thinking about adding some Legion Bikes to use as Chaos Bikers, but they are a bit too expensive IMO so I'll hold off on that.

[Charlo]

A lot of people enjoy using Kakaphoni as Volkite weapons :) the rules seem to fit well.

[Theredknight]

Aye, tactical support squad stand ins. Flamers, volkites, meltas etc.

I view it that they attune the weapons to different profiles.

Volkites = staggered bursts

Flamer = blast of sound

Melta = focussed sonic blasts

[Theredknight]

So, it has been a while since anyone posted.

Here's a few practicals over the last few months.

 

I have effectively been playing a legion list, but ec rules and eidolon.

 

Our rite of war under 3500 points is fairly useless after many trials, with flanking dreadnoughts, flanking vets, flanking jet bikes, speeders, or terminators. I just cannot seem to make it work playing against other armies below that. Interceptor destroys my rhinos or shreds my dreads. Culverins with scanner are pretty harsh on anything like that also coupled with Mortis or deredeo.

Paying out points for a legion champ to be able to use open blade, which is +1 to your move, run and charge on ONLY turn one, is a terrible 'bonus'

Hidden blade isn't that Much better.

 

Our legion rules are also terrible, forcing to challenge is a major hamper, and I lose 50/60% of challenges due to sheer chance, then my units run away, even with a vexilla.

The extra bit to run is a little useful at least though.

We don't get much else useful, I think I have swept once or twice, but it didn't make much difference anyway in the game I was playing, 90% of the time though, they just pass their leadership test and stay.

 

Kakophoni

 

Pahahaha less said about these the better...

 

Phoenix guard

I do not use Phoenix guard because they are lack lustre, if they had shooting weapons to augment their fairly meagre output, then I'd consider it. As it is, I converted 10 to regular termies, and my 10 Phoenix may get converted as well. I have used them a handful of times and been disappointed every time.

Not used.

 

Palatine blades - play like a glass hammer, the 3+ armour and their price with essential upgrades makes it pretty weak when trying to get them into combat.

I tried supporting them with a unit of assault marines, and it sometimes works, but once their first charge is over, And they have taken 4/5 casualties, they are effectively broken, and not really much use, bar mopping up operations.

I have dropped them in a dread claw (they scatter full 2d6 by the way and INTO terrain, for a lovely deep strike mishap) and lost them, when they stayed, the claw was destroyed and I was plasma tanked to death.

So I took a land raider, got them up there, and did OK against a tactical squad, took 3 casualties to over watch and couldn't kill enough!

Basically unless they are well supported by another mob unit, they will lose eventually. They haven't got the punch to deal with things like terminators, or other elites, or monsters like castellax, and they aren't fearless.

Their primary battlefield role seems to be aimed at taking out MEQ, and maybe supporting terminators.

I have found there are more effective ways and units to kill these types of infantry, and at range, so i haven't used them in a good while now.

Rarely used.

 

Saul tarvitz

 

Poor old Saul, never got to be the hero we read about, instead he has a meagre forced challenge potential where you are hoping for a rend on that sword, I used him twice, his counter attack gave my unit an extra 2 kills, good you say? Yes!

However, against a lowly sarge, he couldn't wound a 2+armour, and he got squashed by a power fist, with his brains all over the floor, the squad.. You guessed it, ran away! I kinda hope they don't release this model, as it would look great, but make me cry at his rule set.i think Istvaan 3 is done now anyway.

Not used.

 

Eidolon

 

The reason I play emperors children any more.

A lovely new model for him, and our only premier character who consistently wrecks things. He is the only thing good about the legion itself really, I use him with bodies of 15 assault squad guys, as the bodies take the wounds, when he is in combat, he smashes an enemy character or challenger and away you go.

The power weapons on siege and squad are hidden gems.

Always take him, otherwise there is no point!

Essential use.

 

Rylanor

An average contempor, don't really use him due to his pricyness. Poor old rylanor can't even detonate his reactor for a mental fusion blast, which sometimes I think he'd be better off doing with a flamer and assault cannon. Consequently,

Not used.

 

Fulgrim.

He is one of the low costed primarchs, and for that, his points are ok. As primarchs v primarchs duels, any one will generally last 20 turns, he is better killing anything else. As long as he is supported and shielded correctly. Used a couple of times, but only in apoc games really.

Rarely used.

 

So that's about my list for our units. It's getting a bit late but il put up how I have been playing the legion and my success rate soon maybe tomorrow.

[Charlo]

The EC are certainly in a sorry state, I can only imagine it's punishment for such an awesome colour scheme and wonderful models :P

 

I'm hoping book 6 will revamp all the older Legions with the new RoW without making them all be "oh yeah we're chaos now"