[HH1.0] Emperor's Children Tactica

[Theredknight]

Was that all in his list?

Talk about wanting to win.

That's the exact reason I take my 3k list. In friendlies I won't take it, but If i know I'm likely to come across :cuss: that need a good kicking, kakophoni shall reap their eardrums!

Edited November 7, 2016 by Slipstreams
Do not dodge the swear filter.

[GorgeousGoat]

Yup - it was the two iron hands players 1.5k each. 

 

They got first turn and well..

The Kakophoni didn't really get a chance to get any meaningful shots off. Whirlwind, mortars, heavy support squad and plasma executioner targeted the two squads. 
Safe to say I failed enough 3+'s! 

 

It was my first loss with the legion... I shall do the only thing honourable and bring the wrath of the Phoenix down on them next... 

[Charlo]

That is a problem with doubles, as soon as you double up on the heavy support slots all balance goes out the window!

[Terminus]

^Haha, yes, tell that to the guy wanting to run his 5000 points of Fists vs mine and a buddy's Mechanicum. He was bragging up and down about how he is unstoppable, so we both brought Matrix of Ruin.  6 phosphex medusas and 6 Krios Venators later, he was tabled early in turn 3.

[MorgothNL]

^Haha, yes, tell that to the guy wanting to run his 5000 points of Fists vs mine and a buddy's Mechanicum. He was bragging up and down about how he is unstoppable, so we both brought Matrix of Ruin.  6 phosphex medusas and 6 Krios Venators later, he was tabled early in turn 3.

I approve . If it's to take down a bragger or a cheese, by all means.

Edited November 8, 2016 by MorgothNL

[landingshortly]

First post after having an account for ages. I just returned to the hobby after a 4-year hiatus and I am pretty much lost. 30K is amazing and coincidentally, this is also what I tried to start when I met my now-fiancée and subsequently stopped...

 

Anyway, I have the following stuff to my disposal so far:

 

Pretty much finished

- 1x 10-squad Tactical Marines MK IV armour GW plastic box. Painted them and have a Sarge with a Power Fist, 1 Plasma & 1 Rocket Launcher.

- 10 Tactical Marines MK IV from the BaC box that I already built. I built 7x standard Marines with bolters and 3 Plasmas.

- 1x 5-squad Cataphractii from BaC. One dude with a Chainfist, the rest with Powerfists.

- I kitbashed+greenstuffed a future HQ dude with Art Armour, Jump Pack and Spear.

- I also kitbashed+greenstuffed a future sarge with Art Armour. No weapons on him yet.

- 1 Contemptor from BaC with the weapons it comes with... all magnetized.

- 1 Contemptor Mortis that I found from back then with also now magnetized hand+flamer, assault cannon and I also found a plasma cannon.

 

Things that I can modify because they are not really painted but loosely built

- The two HQ dudes from the BaC box. I can pretty much still kitbash/greenstuff their weapon options

 

Things that are still on sprues:

- 2 10x Tactical Marines MK IV squads from the BaC box

- something like 2 10x Tactical Marines MK IV from Forge World that I found from back when I stopped

 

So my issue is... and I struggled to find the right thread to post it to... that I ultimately want to have a somewhat fluffy and nice army to casually play with friends. I have no clue what they are playing as my main gaming buddy still needs some motivation to start again and I have not talked WH yet with the other one I used to play but I am certain that he has an army.

 

As Christmas time is coming, I will treat myself to a good FW order in the next weeks to treat myself but obviously, I do not want to make the mistakes that ultimately also led to me stopping the hobby: I don't want to buy a crapload of stuff that I put on my log to finish while I constantly add new things and my log explodes. Also, I don't want to build units that I will not be using because they don't fit anywhere.

 

So here is my question.... after reading quite a bit about the army in this thread... what should I play that will be fun to play whilst also reasonably good as that I don't lose every time we play? And how can I build the things that I still have not assembled yet into units I can use when playing?

 

I am pretty set on buying Eidolon and Fulgrim because the models are amazing but I am also actively looking into Phoenix Terminators primarily because they look amazing and to a wider extent also Palatines and also Kakophoni. Also great models to look at. I am not looking to just drop $$ to buy 30 Kakophoni for a spam orgy even though they are supposed to be amazing... what I am looking for is a fluffy army that is fun to play and needless to say, good looking. I pretty much like Dreadnoughts and Terminators the most while I don't really like the look of too many jetpacks, vehicles and things like speeders and planes. Drop Pods are cool, though.

 

Not really a tactica post after all and I hope it's not a big problem but it somewhere still fits because I am looking for guidance about army composition, reasonable squad loadouts and guidance what I can play with the preferences I have in assembling, modelling and painting.

 

Cheers guys, much appreciated!

[Jackalwolf]

Hey there fellas,

 

I'm about to finish stage one of my EC project and eventually I will buy batch two, which I intended to be some elite units and first amongst them the amazing Phoenix Terminators.

 

My pain is that since the release of Custodes they may have been rendered obsolete.

 

275 for 5 Custodes with guardian spears vs 265 for 5 phoenix terminators with guardian spears, when the custodes have all one wound more, come with bolters and have better special rules.

 

If the new book allows Custodes to join a primary force as an elite choice, have they just rendered the Phoenix Terminators unjustifiable from a purely list building point of view?

[Charlo]

I guess but do remember the rules are temporary. They will more than likely be limited to the Talons army list when it is out.

 

Also, we know the Custodes rules have been changed since that WD version, so they could change drastically.

 

Yes, Phoenix terms are a bit of a hard sell - but Custodes are loyalist anyway. And if you play EC, then play EC dagnabbit ;)

[Aeternus]

From what I've heard, the new book will allow 'loyalist' armies (and probably armies set pre heresy), access to Custodes. In this vein, they might not replace your Terminators since, well, they might not be available. But putting that aside.

 

If you want, I can look at a quick mathhammer of Custodes vs Phoenix. I have the results from Custodes against their equivalent in Suzerains lying about somewhere as well.

 

In my opinion, you should still take Phoenix terminators. They're A) Fluffy. B] (Imo) better models, C) Can butcher things custodes can't (sword and board), D) Can be taken with more ease, and E) From a quick look, shouldn't do too badly vs Custodes 

 

Edit: See some threads were combined

Edited November 15, 2016 by Aeternas

[Jackalwolf]

Thanks for the fast feedback. I would indeed appreciate that mathhammer. My initial impression was that they're the same unit but one has two wounds and strikes at initiative most of the time where the other has one wound and always strikes at initiative in turn one if they charge.

 

If Custodes are allowed in any way in a regular Legion Army list for loyalist (I want nothing to do with the degenerate cousins of the third), since I invariable always take a Storm Eagle as a Fast Attack, I could embark them in it and make the Storm Eagle be one of my three Hidden blade units for the Maru Skara, which is how I envisioned using the Phoenix Terminators.

[Charlo]

You cannot embark them on friendly transports.

[Jackalwolf]

That's fab, even if they were to be included as agents of the emperor like a Knight Errant?

[Charlo]

Yep, no embarking for those either.

 

The only exception to this is army of dark compliance.

[Terminus]

Phoenix Guard are already an overpriced and underperforming unit but Custodians aren't able to benefit from Legion assault transports.

[GorgeousGoat]

Well, Emperor's Children Alumni - I went to 2 day event from Greetings from the Warp (check them on fb). 

 

This was after the game I played on the30channel - if you haven't seen it on Youtube. Please check it out. I TRY to use a Maru Skara. LOL.

 

5 games. 2 days. 1 list. 

 

2500pts List - 3rd Com. RoW: 

 

HQ:

Eidolon

Chaplain on jetbike (Phoenix Spear, MB, SS and Boarding Shield). 

 

Elites:

5 Cataphracti (4 chainfists, 1 plasma blaster and thunder hammer on the sarge).

D/T - Spartan with Lascannons, Dozer Blade and Flare Shield. 

 

 

Troops:

2x 10 Kakophoni (Orchestrator had Artificer Armour, MB and Phoenix Spear).

D/T - 2 Rhinos

 

Fast Attack:

6 Jetbikes - 2 Volkite, all MB and Sarge had a Phoenix Spear. 

 

LoW:

Fellblade (Armoured Ceramite, Space Marine Crew and Command Tank).

 

 

3 Wins, 1 Draw and 1 Loss (Loss to an Iron Hands player with 2 knights, a drop podding Leviathan etc - he didn't lose a single game).

 

 

Summary:

Never again taking the jetbikes - plasma teams were everywhere and even with a Jink - I would lose 3/4. The MB's on them tempted me to destroy vehicles and they did but then they would get charged or shot to shizzle - Contemptor Mortis especially liked them for shooting practice. 

 

Fellblade - mixed. It did do some serious work and in many games was the sole reason I won or drew. Worth it's points or would I rather a Typhon? :-D

 

Lack of AA - definitely need to add a Mortis and Deredo. Lots of Fire Raptors and/or Xiphons. 

 

 

Finally - Dreadclaws, I think I definitely need to add some of these in to help me get there for charges!!! 

[Ceadus]

Can't agree more on the Dreadclaws. I use them for my Night Lords, and they are a blast to play (pun intended). Also just watched your game against the World Eaters on the 30kchannel, tough game but you've got such a beautiful army.

[GorgeousGoat]

Thanks for the comments about the painting. 

 

Just slowly adding to it and tried to go fluffy with the whole go fast, pincer units... but dreadclaws are soo good! 

 

I will be going on the channel again sometime in the future, this time... for zone hardened warfare with Eidolon himself accompanying the force. 

 

AND 

 

Different dice!!!

[okonomiyakimarine]

Well, Emperor's Children Alumni - I went to 2 day event from Greetings from the Warp (check them on fb). 

 

This was after the game I played on the30channel - if you haven't seen it on Youtube. Please check it out. I TRY to use a Maru Skara. LOL.

 

5 games. 2 days. 1 list. 

 

2500pts List - 3rd Com. RoW: 

 

HQ:

Eidolon

Chaplain on jetbike (Phoenix Spear, MB, SS and Boarding Shield). 

 

Elites:

5 Cataphracti (4 chainfists, 1 plasma blaster and thunder hammer on the sarge).

D/T - Spartan with Lascannons, Dozer Blade and Flare Shield. 

 

 

Troops:

2x 10 Kakophoni (Orchestrator had Artificer Armour, MB and Phoenix Spear).

D/T - 2 Rhinos

 

Fast Attack:

6 Jetbikes - 2 Volkite, all MB and Sarge had a Phoenix Spear. 

 

LoW:

Fellblade (Armoured Ceramite, Space Marine Crew and Command Tank).

 

 

3 Wins, 1 Draw and 1 Loss (Loss to an Iron Hands player with 2 knights, a drop podding Leviathan etc - he didn't lose a single game).

 

 

Summary:

Never again taking the jetbikes - plasma teams were everywhere and even with a Jink - I would lose 3/4. The MB's on them tempted me to destroy vehicles and they did but then they would get charged or shot to shizzle - Contemptor Mortis especially liked them for shooting practice. 

 

Fellblade - mixed. It did do some serious work and in many games was the sole reason I won or drew. Worth it's points or would I rather a Typhon? :-D

 

Lack of AA - definitely need to add a Mortis and Deredo. Lots of Fire Raptors and/or Xiphons. 

 

 

Finally - Dreadclaws, I think I definitely need to add some of these in to help me get there for charges!!!

 

what was your experience with the Kakoponie squads? Obviously you must have had better dice than against the WE on the30channel, but still this is quite a change from the Tactical squads you used there. Did you use/need the rhinos or could you imagine footslogging them in the future? 

I just started collecting EC and got some Assault marines and old 40k Noise Marines cheap so I wonder how to field them. Cheers!

[GorgeousGoat]

Kakophoni squads - Good. I have not used those dice since that game LOL. 

 

I believe you need the rhinos in this quad mortar/phospex and tank meta. I found that the extra mobility and survivability of the rhinos really allowed the Kakophoni to do more damage.

Take the Dominion scenario for instance - with the rhino I was able to get 12" up the board turn 1, secure an objective and shoot (relentless) an entire breachers squad that was foot slogging towards this objective - only 3 Died, but then comes the juicy part:

Bio-Shock Feedback 

 

They failed their test. Roll a D6 and a nice 5 comes up. They get their 6+ invulnerable save but from a squad of 15, suddenly half are dead and down to 8. A lot less scary and the zone control (36") of the Kakophoni meant I was able to keep them back on this objective and move other units up to secure others.

 

If you footslog them - you save 35pts but lose mobility and crucially a way to prevent them getting shot immediately. 

 

They did end up getting charged from a storm eagle T3 tactical squad but with the SS on them, they hit on 3's and with a PS on the Orchestrator and the player's sergeant not having AA - managed to win the challenge and take another with him. 

They ran away, and I swept them down. 

 

The biggest buff for me, the stubborn Ld9. That is very powerful in case you ever lose combat and are on an objective. In another game, a dreadclaw had come down the turn before 12-15" away, they had shot the rhino with a contemptor mortis - I disembarked out into their deployment zone (shatter strike) and the dreadclaw disgorged a juicy Reaver squad. 

They charged and I lost combat. Orchestrator survived the challenge - Ld9. Stuck around. 

Next turn - Eidolon managed to get there and re-charge. Glorious intervention in the challenge, hammer time and I swept them. 

 

Hope that review is good enough for you. :-)

[Ceadus]

Those reports get me #hardforheresy. ;)

I chose the lll. Legion as my main army after collecting and playing Night Lords. And I'm so excited to start. Just have to wait til my first MKA course in January:)

 

So if you guys have any advice for a lll. Legion newbie, let's hear it. I thought about trying to master the Maru Skara first, just because it's a cool and fluffy way to play the EC. And also my is a little laid back (but for how long...)

[okonomiyakimarine]

Kakophoni squads - Good. I have not used those dice since that game LOL. 

 

I believe you need the rhinos in this quad mortar/phospex and tank meta. I found that the extra mobility and survivability of the rhinos really allowed the Kakophoni to do more damage.

Take the Dominion scenario for instance - with the rhino I was able to get 12" up the board turn 1, secure an objective and shoot (relentless) an entire breachers squad that was foot slogging towards this objective - only 3 Died, but then comes the juicy part:

Bio-Shock Feedback 

 

They failed their test. Roll a D6 and a nice 5 comes up. They get their 6+ invulnerable save but from a squad of 15, suddenly half are dead and down to 8. A lot less scary and the zone control (36") of the Kakophoni meant I was able to keep them back on this objective and move other units up to secure others.

 

If you footslog them - you save 35pts but lose mobility and crucially a way to prevent them getting shot immediately. 

 

They did end up getting charged from a storm eagle T3 tactical squad but with the SS on them, they hit on 3's and with a PS on the Orchestrator and the player's sergeant not having AA - managed to win the challenge and take another with him. 

They ran away, and I swept them down. 

 

The biggest buff for me, the stubborn Ld9. That is very powerful in case you ever lose combat and are on an objective. In another game, a dreadclaw had come down the turn before 12-15" away, they had shot the rhino with a contemptor mortis - I disembarked out into their deployment zone (shatter strike) and the dreadclaw disgorged a juicy Reaver squad. 

They charged and I lost combat. Orchestrator survived the challenge - Ld9. Stuck around. 

Next turn - Eidolon managed to get there and re-charge. Glorious intervention in the challenge, hammer time and I swept them. 

 

Hope that review is good enough for you. :-)

thanks a lot for clearly laying out the options! So what i draw from this is that for Kakophani one has to have a transport to get them there alive and one has to keep them there (and alive) untill Eidolon has some spare hammer swings to clean up. that almost sounds like a list!

 

from your description of the situation I would fancy this build for a start: 

Eidolon, 1x Assault and 2x Kakophoni, 3x apothecaries, 2x Javelins - all with Artificer Armour and Phoenix Spears as far as possible.

 

Feedback obviously welcome, i am rather new to this - Is there anything you guys would rather swap out for other units?

Oh and how does one model an Orchestrator with a Phoenix spear? One-handed wielding of both the spear and the gun?

 

 

Complete list here:

 

MC Martellus & Ambo Soundsystem, 3rd Company Elite (1499pts)

 

HQ (205pts)

 

Lord Commander Eidolon (Jump pack)

 

 

Elites (189pts)

 

Apothecarion Detachment (3x Apothecary, 3x Augury Scanner, 3x Chainsword, 2x Sonic Shriekers, 2x Artificer Armour, 1x Jumppack)

 

 

Troops (955pts)

 

Legion Assault Squad (9x Legion Assault Space Marines with Sonic Shriekers, Combat Shields, Melta Bombs, 2x Power Sword)

Legion Assault Sergeant(Artificer Armour, Phoenix Spear, Plasma Pistol)

 

The Kakophani of the Emperor's Children (8x Chora)

Orchestrator (Artificer Armour, Phoenix Spear)

Rhino (Auxiliary Drive, Combi-Melta, Dozer Blade)

 

The Kakophani of the Emperor's Children (8x Chora)

Orchestrator (Artificer Armour, Phoenix Spear)

Rhino (Auxiliary Drive, Combi-Melta, Dozer Blade)

 

 

Fast Attack (150pts)

 

Javelin Attack Speeder Squadron (2x Javelin, 2x Multi-melta, 1x Twin-linked Lascannon, 1x Cyclone Missile Launcher, 2x HKM

[GorgeousGoat]

Two birds and one stone time. 

 

Maru Skara is fluffy - however 3rd Company is strongest and arguably still very fluffy regarding the unique RoW Builds. 

 

Happily talk all day about either of them to fellow III Legion players :-). 

 

@okonomiyakimarine

 

Your list & Tactica:

Apothecaries, essential for Kakophony. FNP on those Gets Hot are useful! I skimped on points in the above list ha. Don't bother put SS on them as they will be put in units already with them. Can they take MB's?

 

Assault Squad - drop the combat shields, a 6+ invulnerable is pointless imho. Unless you've modelled the plasma pistol, drop that on the sarge and give him MB's. Consider a Power Fist because Eidolon will be taking the challenges as he has too, so your sarge could be used for extra squishing of higher T units (Stone gauntlet or bikes). 2's vs 4's on the charge. 

 

Kakophoni - always add a MB onto the orchestrator. Never know when you may have a charge on for a tank/mortis that your S6 can't hurt. Added flexibility for 5pts. 

Phoenix Spear on Kakophony - magnetised it to his backpack. it won't fit in the foam otherwise.. and those spears will break with even a change in air humidity I swear!! 

 

Javelin Speeders are awesome. However, I personally don't like the modelling of the TL-LC and you will probably jink them, hence 2 shots TL needing 6's are better than 1 TL shot. They should be dreadnought hunting (can't take armoured ceramite) and with outflank - likely will get rear armour. So an extra shot when needing 2's into RA10 vs 1's is invaluable. 

 

Hopefully helpful. Remember Dreadnoughts hit you on 5's in cc, so get within 12" and Melta them into slag!!!

Edited December 1, 2016 by GorgeousGoat

[Terminus]

^ combat shields are what makes assault marines good, that 5++ in combat makes all the difference. At range you should be either testing on cover or armor. Spears are a waste of time on Kakophoni in my opinion, because it's not a unit that will be launching many charges (you're usually better off letting them charge you and shooting overwatch, as happened in both of your examples).

 

Also, Sgts without artificer armor == scrub. Even in the soft world of narrative 30K, that's an absolute.

[okonomiyakimarine]

Two birds and one stone time. 

 

Maru Skara is fluffy - however 3rd Company is strongest and arguably still very fluffy regarding the unique RoW Builds. 

 

Happily talk all day about either of them to fellow III Legion players :-). 

 

@okonomiyakimarine

 

Your list & Tactica:

Apothecaries, essential for Kakophony. FNP on those Gets Hot are useful! I skimped on points in the above list ha. Don't bother put SS on them as they will be put in units already with them. Can they take MB's?

 

Assault Squad - drop the combat shields, a 6+ invulnerable is pointless imho. Unless you've modelled the plasma pistol, drop that on the sarge and give him MB's. Consider a Power Fist because Eidolon will be taking the challenges as he has too, so your sarge could be used for extra squishing of higher T units (Stone gauntlet or bikes). 2's vs 4's on the charge. 

 

Kakophoni - always add a MB onto the orchestrator. Never know when you may have a charge on for a tank/mortis that your S6 can't hurt. Added flexibility for 5pts. 

Phoenix Spear on Kakophony - magnetised it to his backpack. it won't fit in the foam otherwise.. and those spears will break with even a change in air humidity I swear!! 

 

Javelin Speeders are awesome. However, I personally don't like the modelling of the TL-LC and you will probably jink them, hence 2 shots TL needing 6's are better than 1 TL shot. They should be dreadnought hunting (can't take armoured ceramite) and with outflank - likely will get rear armour. So an extra shot when needing 2's into RA10 vs 1's is invaluable. 

 

Hopefully helpful. Remember Dreadnoughts hit you on 5's in cc, so get within 12" and Melta them into slag!!!

Most helpful!

 

Yet I disagree with your take on the combat shields. The Combat shields confer a invulnerable 5+ save in CC and are only 3 pts/marine and even cheaper, if I would increase the squad. The Assault squad with Eidolon is the one unit I have to go for anything dangerous really when in close (characters or any elite units with Power Weapons), so my understanding is that it makes sense.

 

The apothecaries cannot take any MB, Orchestrator will of course. No Las on the Javelins makes things cheaper... so with 2x HKS on each Javelin the list adds up to 1490 pts. So? Additional 3rd PW in the Assault Squad for some magic number? 

 

edit: Terminus, so fast and me so slow. Maybe i should not go for EC!

Edited December 1, 2016 by okonomiyakimarine

[noigrim]

Made this list for use vs 40k armies, a bit low on antitank perhaps? Could switch the vets and morti by a kraken lighting to fill that.

 

Combined arms 1500

Fulgrim

Command sqd, termis, powerfists

centurion, termi, fist,shriekers

legion champion, powersword, shield

termis 4 fists, combis

mortis, 2x melta

vets, 1 powersword

tactical 

''

 

Plan is to maru skara the elites and advance the rest with master of ambush, vs shooty armies (tau, eldar?) go with conqueror of cities and move Fulgrim through the ruins

 

I can always drop the champion and the rite and pick a serpenta mortitat, but he's not very fluffy/cruncy

 

Not sure about the +1 initiative boost, could replace 1/2 of the fists with claws and give the termi centurion a spear

Edited December 1, 2016 by noigrim