[HH1.0] Emperor's Children Tactica

[Terminus]

 

 

edit: Terminus, so fast and me so slow. Maybe i should not go for EC!

 

It's okay, you can still do it.  I can be the perfection you aspire to, the Fulgrim to your Lucius so to speak.

[temneb]

Thanks for the comments about the painting.

 

Just slowly adding to it and tried to go fluffy with the whole go fast, pincer units... but dreadclaws are soo good!

 

I will be going on the channel again sometime in the future, this time... for zone hardened warfare with Eidolon himself accompanying the force.

 

AND

 

Different dice!!!

Not that it would have made too much difference, but you got stooged a bit the way he was running inductii, and a legion rule.

 

Inductii are -1 bs, +1 Str, fnp 6 (not +1 fnp)

 

He also doesn't understand how the WE LA work, if you take automatic rage, you lose the 4+ thing.

[GorgeousGoat]

 

Two birds and one stone time. 

 

Maru Skara is fluffy - however 3rd Company is strongest and arguably still very fluffy regarding the unique RoW Builds. 

 

Happily talk all day about either of them to fellow III Legion players :-). 

 

@okonomiyakimarine

 

Your list & Tactica:

Apothecaries, essential for Kakophony. FNP on those Gets Hot are useful! I skimped on points in the above list ha. Don't bother put SS on them as they will be put in units already with them. Can they take MB's?

 

Assault Squad - drop the combat shields, a 6+ invulnerable is pointless imho. Unless you've modelled the plasma pistol, drop that on the sarge and give him MB's. Consider a Power Fist because Eidolon will be taking the challenges as he has too, so your sarge could be used for extra squishing of higher T units (Stone gauntlet or bikes). 2's vs 4's on the charge. 

 

Kakophoni - always add a MB onto the orchestrator. Never know when you may have a charge on for a tank/mortis that your S6 can't hurt. Added flexibility for 5pts. 

Phoenix Spear on Kakophony - magnetised it to his backpack. it won't fit in the foam otherwise.. and those spears will break with even a change in air humidity I swear!! 

 

Javelin Speeders are awesome. However, I personally don't like the modelling of the TL-LC and you will probably jink them, hence 2 shots TL needing 6's are better than 1 TL shot. They should be dreadnought hunting (can't take armoured ceramite) and with outflank - likely will get rear armour. So an extra shot when needing 2's into RA10 vs 1's is invaluable. 

 

Hopefully helpful. Remember Dreadnoughts hit you on 5's in cc, so get within 12" and Melta them into slag!!!

Most helpful!

 

Yet I disagree with your take on the combat shields. The Combat shields confer a invulnerable 5+ save in CC and are only 3 pts/marine and even cheaper, if I would increase the squad. The Assault squad with Eidolon is the one unit I have to go for anything dangerous really when in close (characters or any elite units with Power Weapons), so my understanding is that it makes sense.

 

The apothecaries cannot take any MB, Orchestrator will of course. No Las on the Javelins makes things cheaper... so with 2x HKS on each Javelin the list adds up to 1490 pts. So? Additional 3rd PW in the Assault Squad for some magic number? 

 

edit: Terminus, so fast and me so slow. Maybe i should not go for EC!

 

 

I must be honest - you and Terminus have changed my view of Assault squads with combat shields. I have been loathe to run them due to they just become an instant pin cushion for mortar or whirlwind fire in my local meta. 

 

@Terminus Agree completely about the Artificer Armour. However, I do like the PS on the Kakophony - it really helps if you need to shoot and charge, rather than shoot and be charged. 

 

With the 10pts, can you put a power weapon on the Assault Apothecary, as is more survivable (Look out sir!, and can at absolute worse, challenge and gain +1I). 

[GorgeousGoat]

 

Thanks for the comments about the painting.

 

Just slowly adding to it and tried to go fluffy with the whole go fast, pincer units... but dreadclaws are soo good!

 

I will be going on the channel again sometime in the future, this time... for zone hardened warfare with Eidolon himself accompanying the force.

 

AND

 

Different dice!!!

Not that it would have made too much difference, but you got stooged a bit the way he was running inductii, and a legion rule.

 

Inductii are -1 bs, +1 Str, fnp 6 (not +1 fnp)

 

He also doesn't understand how the WE LA work, if you take automatic rage, you lose the 4+ thing.

 

Hi, 

 

From what I understand, he took Crimson Path. 

Hence, +1 FNP and he put Apothecaries in each of the squads - hence a 4+FNP and in squad with Gahlan Surlak - he can get a 3+ FNP. 

However, that is only when in an opponent's deployment zone. 

 

However, you can't put IC's in Inductii units. So how did Apothecaries join? And how did Angron/Praetor join them in the Spartan?

 

What I can't work out is how all his units had Hatred in the Crimson path too? I thought you only got hatred on everything if you took Beserker Assault RoW?!

 

So I think he made several mistakes here. Which - to be honest, add up to rather big. 

Edited December 2, 2016 by GorgeousGoat

[Marshal Loss]

Apothecaries and Surlak are allowed to join Inductii, but no other IC's can - so yeah he was in the wrong on a few things. Lovely army and report, by the way, first I've watched on that channel and it was a blast. Hope you get a rematch.

Edited December 2, 2016 by Marshal Loss

[Charlo]

If someone told you that your basic troops choice could be a unit with up to 3 or 4 power weapons, 3+/ 5++/ 5+FNP, move 12" and with I5 you'd scream joy.

 

Welcome to Assault Marines in 30k. Against anything S7 or weaker they really can tank the pain and dish out an admirable number of attacks in combat with hidden power weapons.

 

Fairly cheap for the stuff they bring too.

[GorgeousGoat]

Apothecaries and Surlak are allowed to join Inductii, but no other IC's can - so yeah he was in the wrong on a few things. Lovely army and report, by the way, first I've watched on that channel and it was a blast. Hope you get a rematch.

Thanks. 

 

David - who runs the channel has promised a rematch and thanks for the compliments on the army. Just can't wait to use the Dreadnoughts I've been busy painting up! 

I am now looking to Christmas and Santa for some Assault marines with Combat Shields as Charlo & Terminus have enlightened me to!! 

[okonomiyakimarine]

 

Apothecaries and Surlak are allowed to join Inductii, but no other IC's can - so yeah he was in the wrong on a few things. Lovely army and report, by the way, first I've watched on that channel and it was a blast. Hope you get a rematch.

Thanks. 

 

David - who runs the channel has promised a rematch and thanks for the compliments on the army. Just can't wait to use the Dreadnoughts I've been busy painting up! 

I am now looking to Christmas and Santa for some Assault marines with Combat Shields as Charlo & Terminus have enlightened me to!! 

 

Similar here. Most of the materials for my EC Assaults I have, waiting for the FW Kakopani. It's going to be a loud Christmas. I am curious how you will integrate the Assault in your list though.

[GorgeousGoat]

 

 

Apothecaries and Surlak are allowed to join Inductii, but no other IC's can - so yeah he was in the wrong on a few things. Lovely army and report, by the way, first I've watched on that channel and it was a blast. Hope you get a rematch.

Thanks. 

 

David - who runs the channel has promised a rematch and thanks for the compliments on the army. Just can't wait to use the Dreadnoughts I've been busy painting up! 

I am now looking to Christmas and Santa for some Assault marines with Combat Shields as Charlo & Terminus have enlightened me to!! 

 

Similar here. Most of the materials for my EC Assaults I have, waiting for the FW Kakopani. It's going to be a loud Christmas. I am curious how you will integrate the Assault in your list though.

 

I am looking at dreadclaws for a 3rd Company RoW List and I think a good mix of Assault troops with them should help. I will probably drop the Scimitar Jetbikes. And get a chaplain jump packing around too!!

 

Maru Skara is looking at outflanking Spartans (DT for a fair few terminators :-D), Contemptor Talon and the Javelins.

 

 

[01RTB01]

Sorry to return to the kakophoni debate but I run 20 as they are. Transports not needed personally and apothecaries just ramp up cost. I keep them cheap and shooty. Their range gives sufficient board coverage and I've never yet regretted walking them... yet...

[temneb]

 

 

 

Thanks for the comments about the painting.

 

Just slowly adding to it and tried to go fluffy with the whole go fast, pincer units... but dreadclaws are soo good!

 

I will be going on the channel again sometime in the future, this time... for zone hardened warfare with Eidolon himself accompanying the force.

 

AND

 

Different dice!!!

Not that it would have made too much difference, but you got stooged a bit the way he was running inductii, and a legion rule.

 

Inductii are -1 bs, +1 Str, fnp 6 (not +1 fnp)

 

He also doesn't understand how the WE LA work, if you take automatic rage, you lose the 4+ thing.

Hi,

 

From what I understand, he took Crimson Path.

Hence, +1 FNP and he put Apothecaries in each of the squads - hence a 4+FNP and in squad with Gahlan Surlak - he can get a 3+ FNP.

However, that is only when in an opponent's deployment zone.

 

However, you can't put IC's in Inductii units. So how did Apothecaries join? And how did Angron/Praetor join them in the Spartan?

 

What I can't work out is how all his units had Hatred in the Crimson path too? I thought you only got hatred on everything if you took Beserker Assault RoW?!

 

So I think he made several mistakes here. Which - to be honest, add up to rather big.

He can't have both, it's either or. The way he was talking in the video was Inductii get +1 fnp when it's actually fnp 6. Which are obviously very different things.

 

Most of us run BA because the rerols to hit out side of deployment zone is much more efficient than + 1fnp in opponents deployment zone. The combat v your jet bikes looked like it might Gabe happened within his deployment zone so no hatred there.

 

As already mentioned, definitely no characters other than apoths should have been with the inductii and that messes with his list a bit unless he wants to walk angron and prator.

 

I watched one of his other battles and he constantly gets the rules wrong.

[Theredknight]

Sorry to return to the kakophoni debate but I run 20 as they are. Transports not needed personally and apothecaries just ramp up cost. I keep them cheap and shooty. Their range gives sufficient board coverage and I've never yet regretted walking them... yet...

I agree with the walking, however I once took 2 squads, one with and one without.

For me personally the apothecary gives them that staying power (and saving some gets hot fails..which seem to be numerous) plus I get to use my converted Fabius, which is never a bad thing.

 

Don't forget (as I did) they have bp & ccw, so over watch with pistols, hit on 3s (nornally) chop them with an extra attack, and if you fail, your stubborn!

 

A really great unit.

 

Oh and don't forget to roll gets hot separate, takes longer, but can save you the men :-)

Edited December 3, 2016 by Theredknight

[GorgeousGoat]

Soooo... I have a game against the Geeks40k 30k Ultramarines this weekend:

 

Proposed list and tactica below, appreciate your feedback to attain some glory for the III Legion!

 

List - 3rd Company RoW:

 

HQ:

Chaplain (Re.Fract., MB, Artificer Armour)

 

Librarian ML1 (LE model in Cataphracti)

 

Elites:

Contemptor Mortis - Twin-Kheres

 

5 Cataphracti (1 Plasma Blaster, 2xPF, 2xCF and Thunder Hammer on Sarg).

D/T = Spartan with all the trimmings (Flare Shield, AC, and Dozer Blade)

 

 

Troops:

 

10 Man Tac Support Squad all with Melta

D/T = Rhino

 

10 Kakophoni (AA and MB)

10 Kakophini (AA and MB)

 

Fast Attack:

 

Javelin Squad - 2x Javelin Speeder with MM & TL-Cyclone

 

Land Speeder Squad - 4x Land Speeder with MM & Grav Gun

 

Heavy Support:

 

Leviathan Siege Dread - Dreadnought Drop Pod, Grav Flux and Drill.

 

Las Vindi Squad - x3 Las Vindi's

 

LoW:

 

Fulgrim - Laer Blade

 

 

Tactica:

 

He will be using 1-2 knights, hence the heavy anti-tank. I should have the anti infantry covered with the Kakophoni and the plan is to send Fulgrim, terminators, chaplain and librarian deathstar up the table to mince out Girlyman. 

[okonomiyakimarine]

@Gorgous Cat, sorry, i do not feel comfortable judging your list. have to leave this to others.

 

- - -

 

I have another question to add to the whole Kakophoni and Assault discussion: Can or should I put Eidolon, Apothecary and a Chaplain with an Assault squad? In a way it is very Deathstar-like, but why not really? It adds Zealot and Fear!

 

I refer to the general concept of 3rd Company Elite at 1500 pts. Eidolon, (10) Assault mit combat shields and 2x PW, 3x Apothecary, 2x (9) Kakophoni, 2x Javelin, all Sergeants all tooled up.

 

So I could have two Rhinos for transport of the boys of noise at turn one and as a mobile weapon platform (Combi, Auxiliary Drive, Dozer Blade) or instead go with the additional HQ. There are all kind of opinions regarding the necessity of the transports, but what about the usefulness of the Chaplain in the Assault?

 

Opinions please.

[Slips]

@GG: My only real concern is the following: Are you going fluffy with Fulgrim or "optimal"? If you're going fluffy, then No Comment. If you're going Optimal, Fireblade is a better weapon.

 

Also, the 40k FAQ Might have an unintended buff for the EC via the Lucid Blade if your group allows relics to be taken:

 

 

Updated for new rule book FAQ; Weapons which states "Q: Do weapon special rules that say ‘a model equipped with this weapon’ or ‘this weapon’s bearer’ take effect even when not used as the attacking weapon? A: Yes." This means that your Praetor with a Paragon blade can attack with his Paragon blade while benefiting from an improved invulnerable save. Iron halo (4+) and 6 attacks (4+1+1 charging and two specialists weapons) +1 attack from digital lasers. Buff up the invulnerable save to 2++ and you can still make 5 str5 ap2 6+ murderous strike attacks at I7 and with a -1WS penalty for your opponent. Eat that other legions.

[GorgeousGoat]

@slipstreams:

 

RE Fireblade or Blade of Laer - if it was competitive, always Fireblade but after appearing on the30kchannel and using Fireblade, the amount of grief I got for using it outside of the Great Crusade was ridiculous. 

Blade of Laer is easily the worst primarch melee weapon - at least give it shred please FW!! (it supposedly decapitates Ferrus - but I don't see how...)

 

Oh, I would use that Relic and create the unkillable Praetor with the 2++ and still attacking but it's a bit filthy..... :-D

[Slips]

Hmmm, I'm not all that surprised that you got grief for that since most 30k peeps are akin to Historical Gamers. Oh well, shame but what can you do :\

 

It would be pretty filthy, yeah, but its a CC-Only buff so you can kill get shot to pieces and/or roll a 1 vs an Instant Death wound :p Its not like its a re-rollable 2++ 

[Marshal Loss]

@slipstreams:

 

RE Fireblade or Blade of Laer - if it was competitive, always Fireblade but after appearing on the30kchannel and using Fireblade, the amount of grief I got for using it outside of the Great Crusade was ridiculous. 

Blade of Laer is easily the worst primarch melee weapon - at least give it shred please FW!! (it supposedly decapitates Ferrus - but I don't see how...)

 

Oh, I would use that Relic and create the unkillable Praetor with the 2++ and still attacking but it's a bit filthy..... :-D

 

He doesn't even use the Laer Blade after Isstvan, so they're being pedantic. Use Fireblade and have it count as whatever sword he wields after the Laer Blade.

 

List seems pretty good though, tons of AV.

[GorgeousGoat]

@Gorgous Cat, sorry, i do not feel comfortable judging your list. have to leave this to others.

 

- - -

 

I have another question to add to the whole Kakophoni and Assault discussion: Can or should I put Eidolon, Apothecary and a Chaplain with an Assault squad? In a way it is very Deathstar-like, but why not really? It adds Zealot and Fear!

 

I refer to the general concept of 3rd Company Elite at 1500 pts. Eidolon, (10) Assault mit combat shields and 2x PW, 3x Apothecary, 2x (9) Kakophoni, 2x Javelin, all Sergeants all tooled up.

 

So I could have two Rhinos for transport of the boys of noise at turn one and as a mobile weapon platform (Combi, Auxiliary Drive, Dozer Blade) or instead go with the additional HQ. There are all kind of opinions regarding the necessity of the transports, but what about the usefulness of the Chaplain in the Assault?

 

Opinions please.

 

A lot of points sink into 1 unit that at best will kill 1 unit - then it will get shot to hell. 

Hopefully no Whirlwinds or Medusa or even Contemptor Mortis you play against. 

 

For me - too fragile. 

[Caustic63]

Made this list for use vs 40k armies, a bit low on antitank perhaps? Could switch the vets and morti by a kraken lighting to fill that.

 

Combined arms 1500

Fulgrim

Command sqd, termis, powerfists

centurion, termi, fist,shriekers

legion champion, powersword, shield

termis 4 fists, combis

mortis, 2x melta

vets, 1 powersword

tactical 

''

 

Plan is to maru skara the elites and advance the rest with master of ambush, vs shooty armies (tau, eldar?) go with conqueror of cities and move Fulgrim through the ruins

 

I can always drop the champion and the rite and pick a serpenta mortitat, but he's not very fluffy/cruncy

 

Not sure about the +1 initiative boost, could replace 1/2 of the fists with claws and give the termi centurion a spear

 

I'm not sure Fulgrim is worth it at 1500pts. versus a modern 40K army, especially since the Maru Skara RoW forces you to take at least 2 HQs. You will likely find you simply don't have enough bodies to survive the deluge of shots sent your way. I'd actually recommend running Assault Marines (in their newer more cost-effective version) and more shooting oriented FA and Elites, with either Eidolon or a Delegatus as your primary HQ.

 

Your Fast Attack choices are really important in ensuring this RoW is effective, because you want them to show up from the side and then put shots into side armour. Palatine Blades/Terminators in a Dreadclaw are also an interesting addition because they can arrive on Turn 1, Flat Out & Jink, and then Assault on Turn 2.

[noigrim]

I've got a 2k pts game next sunday, I want to take Fulgrim for fluff reasons (let's face it the whole legion can only be taken for fluff compared to SoH). A kraken lightning and imperial fists with laser hssq/master of signal will be added for antitank dropping the vets and mortis.

Should I remove oneof termis to add vets and the mortis instead? The command squad is more resilient than termis but it doesn't have obsec so I don't know which is better.

 

A dreadclaw is a buy for the future but more in the way of dropping 20 SoH plasma shots turn onr ;)

Edited December 13, 2016 by noigrim

[01RTB01]

I've got a 2k pts game next sunday, I want to take Fulgrim for fluff reasons (let's face it the whole legion can only be taken for fluff compared to SoH). A kraken lightning and imperial fists with laser hssq/master of signal will be added for antitank dropping the vets and mortis.

Should I remove oneof termis to add vets and the mortis instead? The command squad is more resilient than termis but it doesn't have obsec so I don't know which is better.

 

A dreadclaw is a buy for the future but more in the way of dropping 20 SoH plasma shots turn onr ;)

Fulgrim with imperial fists?... :(

[GorgeousGoat]

Fulgrim with any loyalist scum.

 

Unthinkable. The only time he should ever be with him... is when he's standing over their corpses. 

 

Glory to the III

[noigrim]

It's not his fault his legion has no free tank hunter, besides they're fellow warriors after all

[Theredknight]

Fulgrim with any loyalist scum.

 

Unthinkable. The only time he should ever be with him... is when he's standing over their corpses.

 

Glory to the III

Standing over with a smirk on his face at the corpses defilement of course Edited December 18, 2016 by Theredknight