[HH1.0] Emperor's Children Tactica

[Withershadow]

I've got a 2k pts game next sunday, I want to take Fulgrim for fluff reasons (let's face it the whole legion can only be taken for fluff compared to SoH)

I hate this attitude, the difference between the Legions is minuscule, so if you feel the need to blame Legion perks for your inadequacies, you should do some soul searching.

[GorgeousGoat]

Ok. 

 

I'm not here to debate which RoW is best and most competitive list etcs. 

 

However, can we collectively make Maru Skara work?

 

I've been toying with a 3.5k list that uses Fulgrim to choose Master of Ambush WT (Infiltrate to him and 3 units) and putting them in reserve. Hence, they gain outflank. 

Combining this with the 3 units that get outflank from Maru Skara. 

 

That's up to 6 units coming on automatically or with re-rolls through Fulgrim T2. 

 

I'm now just trying to decide what units to outflank/select - any suggestions for a balanced/fluffy/d1ck kicking list? ;-)

[Withershadow]

Not sure if you need to outflank everything, since it puts you at risk of being wiped out early, but infiltrating half the army and precision outflanking with the other half can work.

 

A pair of Cortus Contemptors in the flank would be solid, as would a multimelta attack bike squad or some Javelins.

 

The only real issue with Maru Skara is its benefit is granting outflank and precision arrival, something Fulgrim can already do by himself, so maybe it's a Rite to consider for armies not led by the Primarchs. If Fulgrim is on the table you can already sort of Maru Skara.

[GriffonI92]

Sorry to throw another question of vitality into the mix....

 

Legion Seeker Squads. Trying to fluff my EC into one of the roving bands of hunters going after fleeing loyalists after Isstvan.

 

Legion Seeker Squads seem to be pretty cool with Special Ammunition specifically. Plus with 3rd Company Elite giving them Sonic Shriekers and a Vigilator (Plus some modeling) I am imagining a pretty badass hunters of Loyalist.

 

Your guys take?

Edited December 25, 2016 by Slipstreams

[01RTB01]

Sorry to throw another question of vitality into the mix....

 

Legion Seeker Squads. Trying to fluff my EC into one of the roving bands of hunters going after fleeing loyalists after Isstvan.

 

Legion Seeker Squads seem to be pretty cool with Special Ammunition specifically. Plus with 3rd Company Elite giving them Sonic Shriekers and a Vigilator (Plus some modeling) I am imagining a pretty badass hunters of Loyalist.

 

Your guys take?

I like the idea of seekers but sniper vets will win every time :(

[Slips]

Unless you get the chance to fire Scorpius Rounds effectively. Being BS5 naturally and Scorpius being S5 Ap2 now, theyll have half the amount of shots in rapid fire range being Heavy 1 but, they, unlike sniper needing 6s, will always ignore armour saves while wounding T4 on a 3+

 

Theres also something to be said about getting the opportunity to rapid fire 20 small blast tempest shells into a unit though this will rarely crop up. Then again, with Alpha Legion MT: infiltrate, you might be able to make use of it vs massed blobs more so than other legions barring Raven Guard.

 

Otherwise, yeah, vets do it better especially since they now have the combi-weapon access that used to be one of the Seekers selling points.

[Withershadow]

^Don't forget shred for rerolling wounds. That's like a 57% chance to wound the T6 Primarchs, and like a ~31% chance to wound T7 Castellax.

 

The other special ammo is nice too, Tempest shells can put a ridiculous amount of blasts on something for forcing wounds, and Kraken evaporates any unit with weaker saves (with rapid fire at 15").

[01RTB01]

^Don't forget shred for rerolling wounds. That's like a 57% chance to wound the T6 Primarchs, and like a ~31% chance to wound T7 Castellax.

 

 

If primarchs are in a unit the majority Toughness so generally Toughness is 4 ;)

[Withershadow]

Of course, what all this boils down to is whether the rounds are good enough on their own to run without combi weapons, at which point Seekers compare a bit better with Veterans on raw value. There is still nothing quite like BS5 plasmas against a preferred enemy target coming out of a pod, but I'm starting to think maybe I should try running them naked and leave the plasma to vets and terminators.

 

Also, maybe I'm crazy since I don't have the Crusade army list handy, but wasn't Marked for Death once only before the update? Now it's just permanent PE vs chosen unit. Or am I just thinking of Deythan?

Edited December 26, 2016 by Withershadow

[Slips]

Its the Mor Deythan Twin-Linked and Rending buff that is One Use but I'm the only one to ever have run Seekers in our group so I'm iffy on the wording for Marked.

[Caillum]

"Marked For Death" is PE against a unit or independent character for the whole game.

 

Thinking that sticking to boltguns is more efficient for Seekers. Give the Sergeant AA, MB and a power weapon for those opportunity charges, and leave it at that.

[GriffonI92]

So it seems that no one uses them as is. I like the idea I have for 'em. Worse case I model 5 up and they don't work...

 

I don't see how they can be compared to Veterans though. 

[GorgeousGoat]

Sooo - who's going to Warhammer Fest 30k GT / Throne of Skulls - that tournament in Gibraltar thing?

 

If so, anybody got any tactica to take/share with the forum?

[Bythehololight]

Hey guys, I've been really confused about Maru Skara.

 

Can I take a superheavy tank? I know it's not fluffy but would really like to field one.

 

I don't fully understand the Maru Skara restrictions.

' no heavy, immobile or slow and purposeful'

 

Thanks!

[stuka06]

Hey guys, I've been really confused about Maru Skara.

 

Can I take a superheavy tank? I know it's not fluffy but would really like to field one.

 

I don't fully understand the Maru Skara restrictions.

' no heavy, immobile or slow and purposeful'

 

Thanks!

Yes you can, absolutely. You just can't use him in the "Hidden Blade"

[Withershadow]

One thing to keep in mind, just to spread the misery around, but per the FAQ Fulgrim cannot re-roll reserve rolls if he is in a transport.

[Pylaeides]

Emperor's Children ROW: Maru Skara

 

So my experience with this ROW starts about a year ago when I first started 30k. I played 40k Slaanesh Noise Marines and naturally I wanted to extend my passion for passion and play the OG slaanesh legion. At first look the ROW doesn't have too many apparent bonuses or benefits that make winning the game easy like other Legions do which threw me off initially as my group play relatively meta lists. So I played 3rd Company Elites which is a lot of fun too. However, the Maru Skara is split into two sections:

 

The Open Blade:

• First turn EC models gain +1" to movement, run, and charges

The Hidden Cut

• 1-3 ELITES/Fast Attacks are placed into reserve and arrive automatically on a predetermined turn. 

 

Now this doesn't seem too great but this actually provides lot's of advantages over the enemy army due to the amount of mobility your army gains. Let me break down army composition before an explanation of each rule. Each legion has infinite possibilities and combinations however each legion also had it's tendencies. Emperor's Children prefer fast hitting, speed over brawn units and tactics. So fluff-wise units to take would be 

 

Troops:

• Tactical Squads - these are the basis of the Horus Heresy
• Assault Squads - The tactical squads quick moving cousin, assault squads were reduced in price so they became so worth to take

Fast Attack:

• Skyhunters - jetbikes perfectly embody EC
• Land Speeders/Javelin Speeders - these also support the glass cannon aspect of EC
• Outriders/Bikes - fast, tough fire platforms
• Stormbirds - once again embodies the fast aspect. can throw fun CC units in here
• Xiphon/Primaris Fighters - another hard hitting glass cannon to be utilized 
• Dreadclaw - amazing unit. especially for CC units as the extra turn chilling inside is pivotal

Heavy Support: 

• Sicaran Tank - fast and has the magical autocannon on it. great utility tank
• Kakophoni - the only unit that would fit out of place in the "fast" concept. I would use them to pin enemies and hold off counter attacks
• Fire Raptor - SOLID flying firing platform. fits great in any army
• Caestus/Kharybdis - interesting picks that work to deliver CC units 
• Skyslayers - new jetbike unit, all models get the same heavy weapon, this is so good
• Predator Squadron - once again, can fill any role in army
• Land Raider/Spartan - used to deliver close ranged units
• Leviathan Dreadnought - shreds backfield tanks if it can get there

Elites:

• Palantine Blades - COUNTER ATTACK synergises nicely with legion rules. especially with Eidolon
• Phoenix Terminators - great glass cannon unit, just hope it goes right the first time
• Apothecary - fabius bile and co. works almost evilly well with the hidden cut
• Contemptor Dreadnoughts - these work well in any army to fill any role
• Veteran Squads - once again can fill any role
• Destroyers - synergise well with first turn of assault asthetic

So these are units you should consider taking first over other units in the book. They synergise nicely with the Legion special rules as well was Maru Skara. 

 

How to use Maru Skara? 

 

Once again in my experience, I've seen plenty of games where precious units such as dedicated assault squads (Palantine Blades, etc) get destroyed so quickly before they can reach a position they can provide use. So naturally slow moving units such as dreadnoughts, terminator squads, etc. are the ones to place in reserve as they are the most vulnerable to repeat turns of heavy fire. The more nimble fast moving vehicles and units can bide their time in cover for the first turn. 

 

The Open Blade: This is the part of your list where you keep units such as assault/tactical squads, land speeders, and jetbikes as they have the mobility to move around the field and get to where they need to be. Use the first turn move and run bonus to get into an advantageous position in LOS blocking cover to whether any first turn shooting. 

 

The Hidden Cut: This is where the hard hitting slow units go such as terminators, dreadnoughts, or even apothecaries in 20 man tactical squads. (apothecaries are elites and thus are conferred outflank which by the rulebook, if one model has the rule it is conferred to the entire squad.) This opens up opportunities such as the tactical squad blob etc. 

 

Bringing it together: So after you deploy your fast units into nice cover, you wait until the results of your outflank are made apparent. Say most of your units outlflank to the left, you want to shift all your units to that left side and begin to focus your opponents army rather than taking on the whole thing at once. Land Speeders and Jetbikes both have viable anti-tank as well as anti infantry capabilities. Maybe Sky Slayers to pop the transports or tanks and Javelins to clean up what comes out.  This sudden appearance of your armies hardest hitting units on one flank able to concentrate your enemies army without having to weather any reciprocal shooting is outstanding compared to other ROW's.

 

Sample Army List 

 

Every army should have certain bases covered when it comes to being able to deal with anything your opponent takes. These bases include:

• Anti-GEQ
• Anti-MEQ
• Anti-TEQ
• Anti Light Armour
• Anti Heavy Armour
• Anti Monstrous Creature
• Anti Flyer

This is a lot of stuff to cover but a lot of these categories also cover other categories, such as heavy armour for light armour, or TEQ for MEQ and MEQ for GEQ. Luckily in my local meta, I don't have to consider MC's and Flyers so my list won't contain any of that. 

 

++HQ++

 

Eidolon - 185

Legion Champion - Jetbike, Sonic Shrieker, Phoenix Spear, Artificer Armour

 

++Troops++

 

Tactical Squad - x20, CCW and Bolt Pistol - 225

Assault Squad - x15, Phoenix Spear - 255

Assault Squad - x15, Phoenix Spear - 255

 

++Elites++

 

Apothecary - 45

Contemptor-Cortus Dreadnought Claw - x2 Chainfist, x2 Heavy Flamers - 330

 

++Fast Attack++

 

Javelin Attack Speeder - x2, Multimelta's - 130

Skyhunter Jetbike Squad - x5, Sergeant w/ Meltabomb, Phoenix Spear - 240

 

++Heavy Support++

 

Skyslayer Jetbike Squad - Multimelta's - 135

 

++1995++

 

This is a fun list with Eidolon and lot's of jetbikes. As I stated earlier, apothecary with Eidolon and Tactical squad outflank with the dreadnoughts and Javelins. The Assault Squads and Sky Slayers post up in terrain and wait until the side the outflanking units are coming on is determined. After they arrive the non outflanking units move to support the other units and the outflanking units target the most dangerous unit close to them. They then move down the line sideways rather than directly at the enemy.

 

I hope this clarifies a way I use the Maru Skara list, however I know other people have their own ways of doing it which I am curious to hear about as I am always open to new concepts. Have fun with this ROW! 

[ThatMetalhead]

What do you think about a Praevian with Vorax?

They can be a good terminator-killers unit and deviate some fire from assault squad and footslogging tacticals.

[GorgeousGoat]

Hi All,

 

Update for the EC (Trash Tier Legion - so I was told). I came 2nd at the SN Battle Reports HH Event last weekend with this "OP list" LOL:

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwwZR-6UTQEFMXVFODlGMlpsUUE/view?usp=sharing

 

As you can see, nothing too OP in there (no Spartan Deathstars and no dirty combos).

 

Just using Fulgrim picking WT to strategic advantage and out moving my opponents with my speed. Then striking to the heart of their deathstar or Warlord with Fulgrim, as he's so underrated - +2 CR, unless they are fearless - they are usually losing. 

 

If you want to see further adventures of my III Legion, please see my Instagram "waac.henry"

Edited June 3, 2020 by GorgeousGoat

[Theredknight]

Goat, I love the list, my brother played some WE there as well.

 

I haven't played for a while, but played 3 throne of skulls with tweaked lists and won every game bar one.

Obviously us EC generals match the EC doctrine. Then have a little 'pleasure' dance at the end lol

 

The roar of our kakophoni are death shrieks to our enemies. I found them pretty good at shooting when combining fire, and can hold their own in CC being stubborn and coming stock CC weapons. Damage output is way better than a tac squad.

I do often succumb to the song of 1's though, it's part of parcel of the pleasure/pain thing I guess lol

[Marshal Loss]

Only the Orchestrator comes with a ccw, the rest only have pistols so they're stuck at 1A if they get charged. Stubborn is great though of course!

 

Out of interest, EC players - does anybody actually use Phoenix Guard? Do they ever make their points back?

[GorgeousGoat]

Only the Orchestrator comes with a ccw, the rest only have pistols so they're stuck at 1A if they get charged. Stubborn is great though of course!

 

Out of interest, EC players - does anybody actually use Phoenix Guard? Do they ever make their points back?

Phoenix Guard are fluffy but utterly cr@p. 

 

265 for 1W AP2 (only on the charge) terminators. Remind me how many points 5 custodes are (275 if memory serves) - same as Red Butches and all have 2W... they seriously need to buff Phoenix Spears to always AP2 and give them 2W's then charge 275 points for them imo. 

[GorgeousGoat]

Goat, I love the list, my brother played some WE there as well.

 

I haven't played for a while, but played 3 throne of skulls with tweaked lists and won every game bar one.

Obviously us EC generals match the EC doctrine. Then have a little 'pleasure' dance at the end lol

 

The roar of our kakophoni are death shrieks to our enemies. I found them pretty good at shooting when combining fire, and can hold their own in CC being stubborn and coming stock CC weapons. Damage output is way better than a tac squad.

I do often succumb to the song of 1's though, it's part of parcel of the pleasure/pain thing I guess lol

Are you Jo's bro? 

 

If you are, just suggest Mechanicum to him - he had to play 3 games against them... (yuck).

 

Thanks for the compliment on the list. I went fluffy and with speed, I don't do Deathstars and just had lots of units that had versatility. Fulgrim picked a WT is such a huge bonus when most don't get one (Primarchs).

I did do something pretty "tournament-y" - null deploy T1 for an IF player with Phospex Quad Mortars, 2 Las Vindi's, 2 Medusas, a Drop Podding Melta Leviathan etc. So gave him first turn and he got nothing to shoot at. Took the re-roll reserves WT.

Dreadclaw comes down - melta squad destroy his Medusas. (They get phospex'd out of existence next turn lol)

Next turn, I move the dreadclaw and get out with Fulgrim - T2 Mortars are dead and all of reserves come on and by T4 he concedes having only Sigismund on 1W and Damocles Rhino left..

[Jackalwolf]

It surprises me the lack of love for this Legion potential. As a member of the loyalist IIIrd, it has a high place in my heart (ignoring degenerate traitors), and I believe the Maru Skara can be the best RoW if used smartly.

 

- The ability to bring 3 guaranteed reserves in turn 2 makes all the problems associated with bringing in flyer/outflanking support obsolete, and our higher I at charge plus move speed is brilliant.

 

Think about 3 lightnings with Krakens always arriving in turn 2 without wasting any points in Damocles, characters and being unaffected by any legion's or Proteus shenanigans.

 

A list centered around Fulgrim + retinue in a Spartan, with 3 guaranteed lightning krakens coming on turn 2, or 2 lightning krakens and a storm eagle with 20 tacticals or 3 javelin land speeders supported by jetbike praetor/champion with a retinue of sky hunter jetbikes or jetbike command squad is pretty amazing.

 

Open Blade:

- Fulgrim with Phoenix terminators & Primus Medicae in a Spartan

- Jetbike champion with retinue of Sky Hunters

- 19 man tac squad & apothecary

- Contemptor

 

Hidden Blade turn 2:

- Storm Eagle with 19 man tac squad & apothecary, lascannons and multi melta

- 2x lightning interceptors fully loaded

 

I'm sure this can be fit in around 2,5k points and is pretty brutal. Plus also, if you happen to play pre-heresy, the contemptor can be Rylanor and then basically you have guaranteed victory in assaults and the best sweeping advance troops in game.

[ja_147]

Hello all.

Im trying my had at 30k and the 3rd legion.

Question

in your experience what is the size of the forces you have fought against and field at 2000pts in 30k.
I know that this will vary in size, but I trying to get some lists up and going and im trying to gauge what should be the right amount of units in a army .
On paper my lists seam small, but maybe in reality they are just enough.
All input is greatly received