[HH1.0] Emperor's Children Tactica

[Hesh Kadesh]

A unit that contains at least one model with this special rule rolls an extra dice when making Run moves, and uses the highest result rolled. In addition, a unit that contains at least one model with this special rule adds D3 to its Sweeping Advance totals (roll each time).

 

 

 

 Sweeping AdvancesWhen a unit Falls Back from combat, the victors make a Sweeping Advance, attempting to cut down their fleeing foes.

 

 

When a Sweeping Advance is performed, both the unit Falling Back and the winning unit roll a D6 and add their unmodified Initiative to the result.

 

In a unit with mixed Initiative characteristics, use the highest – we can assume the quicker-witted individuals in the unit guide the others. 

 

The units then compare their totals.

 

 

Emphasis theirs. Underline mine.

 

This is better than I gave EC credit for, and have been playing Crusader wrong since its inception (mainly due to how crap it's written). Remember that Sonic Shriekers etc don't add to the Sweeping Advance roll, as it's unmodified Initiative (shame). Chaplain or Forge Lord led Emperor's Children Assault Squads are even more deadly now if you don't want to shell out for Crusader Castellax.

 

Edit; Damn this terrible quoting code on this site. So counter intuitive.

Edited February 19, 2015 by Hesh Kadesh

[Theredknight]

Thanks slips, I shall definitely take this into account, iv been looking at the deredeo for a bit now, and I'm sure I can combine it with a delegatus somewhere..

 

Hesh-

So your saying it goes:

 

Combat- enemy loess and takes leadership -casualties.

They have lost combat and are running.

We then make a sweeping advance move.

Both sides roll and add initiative.

Ec add d3 to the result? If you win you wipe the unit.

 

I'm Going to send this to fw to clarify, and negate any piddly arguments before. If you win combat and overrun their warlord, they don't tend to be happy about it. Our one hard earned bonus then comes under scrutiny you see..

[Hesh Kadesh]

Yup. The "totals" mentioned in Crusader is only referenced when determining who gets the higher roll off; 

 

"If the winners total (Initiative + dice roll) is equal to or greater..."

 

"If the Falling Back units total is higher..."

 

So, when a Sweeping Advance roll off happens, Emperor's Children roll D6+Initiative as standard, +D3 from Sweeping Advance. Just noticed as well that Crusader applies when people are attempting to sweep you, making you more resilient. It makes high Initiative characters very useful, even defensively. A Centurion with Boarding Shield costs 60pts, and sat in a Tactical Blob means that even if you're swept (made harder because of the Defensive Grenades), the attackers need to roll a 7 or more MINIMUM. 

 

This makes them much more powerful than I thought they were. Still not game winningly good vs Iron Hands say, but at least they're not as bad as Death Guard.

Edited February 20, 2015 by Hesh Kadesh

[Theredknight]

I didn't think about using it when I'm getting swept!! It's not a game changer by any means I agree, but certainly can help.

 

Death guard are pretty good compared to us I thought with their units and rules and all. But hats another story.

 

I'making a list with outflanking dreadnoughts, balls to it, more the merrier, 2 contemptor Mortis and 3 legion dreds should do it!

[Caustic63]

So iv figured out my list finally decided that fulgrim was a bit to expensive at 2k, and I need boots on the ground. So my final list apart from tweaks is

 

Eidolon, j pack

 

Assault squad 15, 3 pwr weapons

Tac squad, rhino, nuncio

Tac squad, rhino.nuncio

Tac squad 15 bp ccw, nuncio

Apothecary

 

Legion Mortis dread, tl lascannons

Rapier weapons x2 laser destroyers

Attack bikes x2 autocannons meltabombs

Jetbikes x4 volkite culverin, melta bombs

Javelin missiles, 2x hk missiles

Scorpius whirly

 

I like it for fluffiness and it's a fast paced army that can whip round with scoring troops.

 

So you mentioned that you got tabled using this list after four turns. I'm curious what your legion your opponent was using and why you think things went so downhill for you.  Some things that immediately come to mind for me are:

 

1) Four troops choices is way too many as you said. A major problem that 40K marine lists have had in recent memory is that tactical squads don't pack enough of a punch to change the game, and often they fall victim to more elite units. This is doubly true in 30K where you have no ATSKNF, larger squad sizes, and even nastier elite troops to compete with.

 

2) Rhino mounted Tactical squads are not effective, because unlike in 40K they cannot take any special weapons or heavy weapons to top hatch removing an important advantage. This is in addition to the fact that it's a sub-optimal configuration because you are paying the maximum cost per model and cannot include an apothecary to boost their survivability, NOR can you use Fury of the Legion when the opportunity presents itself.

 

If you want mechanized marines take Veteran Squads via Pride of the Legion backed up by Special Weapons Squads if you want to. Veterans are SO much better in this role because they can double up specials, have Heavy weapons that you can treat as specials, AND they can pick the special rule you think best suits their role. I'm a fan of Sniper myself, but the others can have their uses too (Tank Hunters + Meltaguns are good). Not to mention they can all take Meltabombs for a pittance.

 

3) Why do you have Autocannon attack bikes when a single Sicarian is tougher, has more shots, ignores Jink, Rends, is more accurate, and can take sponsons that can be reliably used? I know it costs more but its a lot more effective.

 

4) Unless you are spamming them normal Dreadnaughts should never be used over Contemptors. This is because without the added survivability they will die very quickly to even the most basic of heavy weapons (like Missiles or Autocannons).

 

Other then the above though, I think you need at least two Javelins in the squadron to ensure maximum first strike capability on the Outflank. Two Javelins with missiles (Cyclone and HKs) have no range issues and will on average glance a Scorpius/Sicarian to death when they arrive which makes them quite powerful. A single Javelin is merely an annoyance. If he has Mortis Dreads you are worried about, position the Javelins either out of range or in cover.

 

Also the Laser Rapiers are inferior to Quad Mortars, so you should consider switching them up.

 

I think that you are definitely learning from your defeats, as you list building skills have noticeably improved since your first attempts. :)

[Theredknight]

Yes I think I'm getting there, with ec it's a fine fine line, I think they have then potential to cause massive damage t2/3 if played right.

 

I was playing against salamanders, and also length ways I the board, so no flanking opportunity for the fast attack.

so those probably didn't help. Vulkan and cassian were in the list as well.

 

I thought it was troops only capturing objectives, but turns out that the 40k rule was being used. Hence the rhino tacs for speed.

 

There was confusion with the ec rules, doni emailed fw to confirm. I got a reply confirming it.

Exemplar of war when sweeping advance it is d6 + initiative + d3.. Only when you are assaulting, not when you lose combat hesh. Bah!!

 

The javelin completely failed against the sicaran, and got furried to death afterwards. Jetbikes blew up a predator and were counter charged. Didn't think they'd make the range.

 

Eidolon and co didn't sweep a unit of tacs, somehow vulkan and a dread made it into combat turn after. Rolled 1 for my d6. Then 1 for my d3.

Looking back. Salamanders have -1 to their charge range, which wasn't used, il have to remind him of that.

 

I took attack bikes to get round the flanks and side/rear armour tanks then meltabombs. But short board blew that. I don't have a sicaran but I will have in a few weeks.

 

The rapiers would be ideal for cracking armour, but he his his units very well, and they didn't get a clear shot on anything, except an apothecary, but by then it was pretty much over.

 

I was talking to the same guy who beat me, he has helped a bit I the list building for ideas. Which have certainly helped. I think the key is in the row..

 

I was thinkng of this now a hammer and anvil tactic.

 

(Anvil)

Tarvitz - yes he's slightly more than a delegatus, but if 1 model is in deployment zone the unit gets counter attack. And He is a cheap access to row Maru skara.

 

Champion - boarding shield , charnabal sabre

 

Tactical squad X15, vex, nuncio, Tac sgt meltabombs

 

Tactical squad X15 vex, nuncio, Tac sgt meltabombs

 

Apothecary x2

 

Predator squadron x2 preds

 

Heavy bolter sponsons, hvy bolter pintle weapon. Dozer blade

 

Sicaran tank, hvy bolter sponsons, dozer blade, armoured ceramite,

 

Whirlwind Scorpius

 

(Hammer) (flanking with hidden blade)

 

Contemptor Mortis, kheres canons

 

Contemptor Mortis, kheres canons

 

Palatine blades, sgt has spear and meltabombs,

x5 power swords, rhino, dozer blade.

 

The third slot is either palatine blades or veteran tactical squad.. My thoughts are blades, 6"on, 6" disembark and run to cover possibly until using crusader.

 

Vet tacs would be rhino, plasma guns, and go where needed most.

 

My third option for this is drop a predator from anvil, and take either 2 contemptors with assault cannon and fist, or 3 legion dreads with different armaments.

 

 

 

This way iv got rid of a squishy army, and armoured my guys with more support from t1. It's still fairly fluffy, and similar to emperors children tactics (pre heresy) shame tarvitz doesn't grant hatred to all traitors instead of just ec, but hey ho.

 

The flanking force has potential to decimate even a spartan with rending shots, and the other squad will deal with other backfield units or come on from the rear of something else.. I'm not sure what will complement the dreads though.. More dreads? Fist contemptors will make a mess of infantry blobs better maybe?

[Slips]

If you want the PBlades in a Vehicle then make in an assault vehicle so they dont have to run for cover upon disembarking. Instead, they can rush into combat and deal more damage overtime or get an early(ier) sweep on an anvil unit.

Edited February 21, 2015 by Slipstreams

[Theredknight]

I would do, but land raiders are so expensive. What would I sacrifice?

[Theredknight]

Brothers, have you looked at the praevan rules? I mentioned on there, but ppl aren't interested in the old 3rd legion.

Are initiative 5 castellex any good to us?

I haven't used them, but they look like a good hammer unit, 4 of then in a transport or walking down field could be painful? Get the charge in and destroy some bodies before suffering damage?

[Hesh Kadesh]

I would do, but land raiders are so expensive. What would I sacrifice?

You could run it with Anvillus Drop Pod; they can't jink or assault when they land, but you can assault after disembarkation; decent placing however can keep you alive, while next turn putting you in perfect place to assault from. They're only 100pts.

 

In regards to Praevians; they don't really do too much that they don't do already. They're already Unwieldiy anyways, while things like Power Swords and Mauls still have to get past T7 with a 2+ save to do anything. You're paying a lot of points for not very much extra effectiveness. Until there's I5 S8+ running around fairly frequently (maybe with Daemons coming out more often with presumed updated Word Bearers or other Chaos Legions), there isn't a cause for needing higher initiative, even despite the reasonably cheap cost for a bulk purchase.

[Theredknight]

Plus you can't transport mc's anyway, and they'd only be +1 I on the charge anyway with legion rules, not worth it really.

 

Anvilus can jink the turn it arrives can't it? I just played (and lost) against nl and they did?

 

Took my above army,I didn't even make my t2,my anvil was destroyed pretty much..

They get i5 when it's 'night time' yet we don't get anything like this. I couldn't charge him knowing I'd get smashed by i5 power swords.. At least at same initiative I have a chance to take done down..

 

Also sevatar in some dudes dropped in anvillus and assaulted t2. I should have kept the Mortis on the table tbh. But then I'm not flanking.

 

I didn't realise how fast they were or that a thud gun could blow up a predator on it's own. They are better than laser destroyers!

 

I'm leaving toward anvillus with palatines in it. But that makes them assaulty again.. And we aren't really that. Other legions do it far better than us.

[Caustic63]

 

I would do, but land raiders are so expensive. What would I sacrifice?

You could run it with Anvillus Drop Pod; they can't jink or assault when they land, but you can assault after disembarkation; decent placing however can keep you alive, while next turn putting you in perfect place to assault from. They're only 100pts.

 

In regards to Praevians; they don't really do too much that they don't do already. They're already Unwieldiy anyways, while things like Power Swords and Mauls still have to get past T7 with a 2+ save to do anything. You're paying a lot of points for not very much extra effectiveness. Until there's I5 S8+ running around fairly frequently (maybe with Daemons coming out more often with presumed updated Word Bearers or other Chaos Legions), there isn't a cause for needing higher initiative, even despite the reasonably cheap cost for a bulk purchase.

 

 

Wait a minute, aren't Dreadclaws treated as Fast Skimmers the turn they arrive by Deep Strike and hence they would be able to Jink and move Flat Out in the shooting phase? I would think a Dreadclaw rush list could be pretty powerful with Emperor's Children since they can be configured to arrive first turn, move flat out to get into position, jink, then release their passengers on the second turn. The only issue with this approach I see is that requires you to either take the Orbital Assault RoW, expend Fast attack slots, or take Terminators inside.

 

I've been thinking of putting together a Strategic Raid army list for the Emperor's Children recently, since its an arrangement that really suits the nature of the army. It's a little unclear if you can combine the force chart from there with a RoW but unlike the other variant charts it doesn't explicitly come with a disclaimer forbidding RoWs from being used.

 

I'm thinking an army of Palatine Blades with Eidolon and two Primus Medicaes backed up by four fast attack choices (and the bonuses to going first and siezing) would make for a pretty awesome army. Kinda sucks you can't take a Primarch though.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Dreadclaws are Flyers, so can Hover, allowing them to Jink, but as they are then attackable by non Skyfire weapons at normal BS, you're getting hit by more firepower anyway, and if you disembark, then your infantry are susceptible to Augury Scanners and the like. According to page 81, if you're a Flyer and can deep strike, you can either Hover (as said), or Zoom, but if you zoom, despite still only being hit by non-skyfire on a 6+, you can't Jink. So, either get hit by 50% more shots either way, really, but zooming is better out of the two.

 

You can't Flat Out either, page 81 once again.

 

Sorry, a slight miswording on my part.

 

Unless there's been an update I've not seen, no Night Lords do not get I5 (they might break into top tiers in that case) when in darkness. The only update I was aware of was them gaining 2+/4+/6+ for Night fighting rather than the 4+/5+/6+ as it is on their Rite of War, while the extent of their Night Fighting abilities is they gain Night Vision for free and have a 6+/+1 to Cover Saves on first turn which stacks with Stealth (such as that from Night Fighting).

 

You cannot Assault from Deep Strike; but you can Deep Strike Turn 1, then assault on Turn 2 after Disembarking. Assault Transports allow you to assault after disembarking, but make no allowance for the banning of assaulting after Deep Strike. 

 

Thudd Guns are a bit of an odd creature at the minute. Message FW and ask if Thudd Guns/Quad Mortars have both Shatter and Frag Shells; as according to the fluff, only Achilles-Alpha Pattern Land Raiders should be able to take them (and that explicitly only the A-Alpha LR has both shells according to the unit entry); however there is nothing to contradict the 7th edition rulebooks wording regarding weapons with multiple weapon profiles, which allows Quad Mortars and normal Achilles to take both Frag and Shatter shells. This is what came from lazy copy pasting, and is houseruled that Quad Mortars etc only have Frag Shells unless mounted on the A-Alpha.

 

And honestly, if you're finding that WS5 I5 3-4 attack models with access to rending, power swords or at Initiative AP2, Crusader and led by an I6 Thunder Hammer with +1 to charge distance, +d3 to Sweeping Assault totals are not assaulty enough, I'm not really sure where to go from there. They're about the best you can get provided you keep them away from mass TEQ; and even then, if you spend that bit more on Phoenix Spears, you're going to make a mincemeat of all but Stormshield Firedrakes, really. I think Gal Vorbak are about the only other equal force to them.

[Slips]

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/H/Horus_Heresy_7th_Ed_FAQ_Dec_2014.pdf

 

Under Cover Of Darkness, last sentence: While Night 

Fighting is in effect, all models with the Legiones Astartes (Night Lords) special rule gain +1 

Initiative and +1" to their Run distances.

[Theredknight]

Hesh- the thudd gun thing is odd, as 3 people have them in my gaming group, they rule that it has both shells. Didn't someone message fw about this before? Perhaps I shall have to now to clear it up.

 

Personally I don't think they do, even on battlescribe they do not. Otherwise, why would you choose a laser destroyer over st8 sunder 4 shots?

 

As slips mentions that Is the update, and buffed them massively to top tier, I thought bit was a little unnecessary as other legions have different vision modes in their helmets but hey.

The cover saves is pretty sick to, when they are dodging about in cover it makes the scorpius redundant.gaining 3+(Ruins) 4+ (craters etc) cover saves.

 

Then try charging them with that unit of 15 tacticals and watch them crumble before they even get to strike.

 

Sad that ec probably the weakest got nothing in that update, when an already decent force did. That's why we have to figure these things out!

 

I'm determined not to give up having lost 11/11 games with then now, it's a challenge that's hard to win though.

 

Part of it is my opponents not quite sure of their legion rules, forgetting negs or in the case of the thudd gun perhaps misinterpreting them in a different way.

 

So.. The list is still ok I think he has some lucky rolls , blowing up a predator with those str8 sunder rounds and knocking the other to snapshots. And then kicking the sicaran to snapshots as well with the other.. This is his t1 as he went first.

Things like needing a 6 and an 8 to get into combat and rolling exactly that for 2 units. Which is just how it rolls I guess!

 

I continued to fail an above average amount of saves as usual. But by start of my t2, my tacticals were dead, tarvitz unit destroyed by sevatar, other Tac unit had 3 left. sicaran weapon destroyed, snapshots and 1hp (thudd gun) both preds dead. I didn't even bother to play my reserves as all I'd managed to do was kill a couple of marines.

Edited February 24, 2015 by Theredknight

[Theredknight]

Looking at quad mortars, I don't understand why they wouldn't have both ammo types, it's listed in quad mortar at the back of lacal

[Caustic63]

And honestly, if you're finding that WS5 I5 3-4 attack models with access to rending, power swords or at Initiative AP2, Crusader and led by an I6 Thunder Hammer with +1 to charge distance, +d3 to Sweeping Assault totals are not assaulty enough, I'm not really sure where to go from there. They're about the best you can get provided you keep them away from mass TEQ; and even then, if you spend that bit more on Phoenix Spears, you're going to make a mincemeat of all but Stormshield Firedrakes, really. I think Gal Vorbak are about the only other equal force to them.

 

Well said. I too believe that Emperor's Children are a close combat army, and thankfully we aren't hindered by our advantages requiring that we outnumber our opponent like Sons of Horus or Night Lords.

 

Night Lords got the 'buff' they did because Night fighting got nerfed big time as a battlefield condition, so they had to get something else to compensate for this change between editions. Getting Initiative and run speed bonuses at Night is cute, but since you won't make it into combat until Turn 2 or 3 at best this boost is often difficult to take advantage of since it goes away just as you get into your fights.

 

It by itself doesn't make Night Lords "top tier", since the legion still has issues with being based around 'Fear' shenanigans (which at least two legions are immune to) while having a strange tendency to fall back a long ways (which isn't good when you don't have ATSKNF) and lose cohesion when their warlord dies. Volkite Terror squads can be decent though, and seem to form the backbone of many NL armies.

[Theredknight]

If a combat based army isn't near ot in combat by t2/3 there's something seriously wrong! You only need it generally speaking for 1 turn, this is the closing phase and something that other armies suffer to, having those kind of saves from instant death or ap3/2 can easily be game changing.

They roll on2+ and consecutively 3+ Etc every following turn.

 

But alas, we aren't here to discuss the benefits of all then other legions, but i5 army wide against ec is a biggy.

The only thing we have similar is palatines, but tool these up correctly it's 350-400 per 10man squad.

The entire nl army gets this i5 bonus.

So, the majority of my guys suffer even if I charge to combat. A lot of their units also get preferred enemy, which is an extra goody.

So having these bonuses isn't cute, it's horrible to play against!!

 

Anyway..

 

I think I have decided that at 2k, there is almost no point in outflanking and using ec row. 2800+ sure il think about it. Eidolon and the assault squad were a good unit so iv tweaked it slightly to suit.

 

Lord Commander Eidolon

Jump Pack

 

Legion Assault Squad

14x Legion Assault Space Marines

3x Power Weapon

····Legion Assault Sergeant

Combat Shield

Power Weapon

 

Legion Tactical Squad

14x Legion Tactical Space Marines

Legion Vexilla

····Legion Tactical Sergeant Power Weapon

 

Legion Tactical Squad

14x Legion Tactical Space Marines

Legion Vexilla

Legion Tactical Sergeant Power Weapon

 

Apothecarion Detachment

Legion Apothecary

Legion Apothecary

 

Contemptor-Mortis Dreadnought Two Kheres Pattern Assault Cannons

 

Contemptor-Mortis Dreadnought Two Kheres Pattern Assault Cannons

 

····Legion Rapier Weapons Battery Quad Mortar ('Thud Gun')

 

····Legion Javelin Attack Speeder 2x Hunter-killer Missiles Multi-melta Searchlight Twin-linked Lascannon

 

····Legion Predator Tank Heavy Bolters

····Legion Predator Tank Heavy Bolters

 

Legion Sicaran Battle Tank Armoured Ceramite Dozer Blade Heavy Bolters

[MorgothNL]

Ec really aren't that bad, I've won about 12 out of 15 games with them. And this is vs any force that will play me (including 40k armies). 

The hardest opponents I've found to be 30k Salamanders and 40K Tau. If the dices are average, Tau isn't much of a problem, but when the dice are against you turn 1 and 2, and all your transports die.. you're in trouble cause you need to get your guys into cc with Tau. Once you're there, it's over for them.

 

Salamanders are hard because those darn firedrakes can take on anything we can throw against them. I've lost 2 battles vs Salamanders because I underestimated them and threw Phoenix guard, and the next battle, palatine blades against them. Those 2 wounds, WS5 and 3++ make boss over everything in our legion. Better to ignore them, send them on a merry chase, or find a way to shoot the %$# out of them before going into cc. The re-roll 1D6 morale check rule, doesn't help us sweep either.. though this is not always a bad thing, because I've found that most times, it's better to not kill the unit in your turn, but finish them of in their turn.. thus not having to face a round of shooting.

 

Close combat is not dead in this game, it just works best if you create 1 or 2 dedicated CC units, and make sure the rest of your list is purely based on getting those 1/2 units in CC. There are endless ways of achieving this, by giving them protection, target saturation or simply enough fire power that the opponent is forced to deal with the non-CC part of your army first.

 

 

 

I'll be going for a rematch vs my brothers 30k salamanders today. I know his list, and he knows mine, so there won't be any surprised. We didn't anti-list, we're just both nearly done buying our army, so these are just the list we made.. going for fluffy and good looking armies. 

 

I'm playing with 1 dedicated CC unit today, and 1 unit that can go both ways depending on the way the battle unfolds.

 

My list:

Fullgrim

Chaplain

5 Phoenix Guard

Storm Eagle

 

8 Veterans (2 power weapons, 1 spear ,melta bombs, artificer, vexilla). These will be snipers most likely

1 Apothecary

Rhino

 

10 veterans (2 missile launcher, vexilla, artificer) These will be snipers

Rhino

 

5 Veterans (melta bombs) these will be tank hunters

1 Anvillus Drop pod

 

Contemptor (CC weapon, kheres, extra armour)

 

Contemptor mortis (kheres)

 

Sicaran Battle tank (lascannons, ceramite)

 

I think, that even though this time I'm only bringing 1 dedicated CC unit, it's still very EC fluffy. I have fulgrim, phoenix guard and a completely elite army. 

 

 

He will be running:

Preator (mantle, hammer, shield)

5 Fire Drakes

Spartan

 

Cassian (named Salamander dread)

 

10 Tacticals

Rhino

 

10 Tactical

Rhino

 

9 Pyroclast

1 Apothecary

Landraider proteus

 

1 Lightning Primaris (4 kraken missiles. auguries)

1 Lightning Primaris (4 kraken missiles, auguries)

 

His list is quite of a power house with the Fire drakes, mantle preator, 2 landraiders and av14 dread.. but I don't mind. He didn't build it that way to have a power house, but because he likes those models, and thinks it suits Salamanders.

 

My tactics:

The veterans in drop pod will go after his biggest threat to my army (in the case of the salamanders today, it will be the Spartan.. or perhaps the landraider depending on deployment.)

Melta bombs + tank hunter, will make short work of any target is he does not deal with it. Dealing with it will take quite some fire power from his end, so even if he succeeds, the rest of my army will hopefully be mostly safe.

 

 

I'll be keeping my mortis safe turn 1, cause I need it to take down his 2 flyers, those things have a lot of firepower :(.

 

I have high hopes that I will be able to fight this battle exactly as I want to to go down. 

[Hesh Kadesh]

Deredeo's with Autocannons hardcounter his flyers. Interceptors, 48" Range, BS5 Twin-linked S8 Rerolls to penetrate, 4 shots? Lovely. Taking a pair of them, with an Aiolos Launcher is 12 Dead tacticals (120pts) for 50pts per game.

 

You'll have First blood from his Rhino's as you'd have nothing else except the Rhino's to fire at. That's 630pts completely wiped out for nothing else lost, as your brother has nothing to really counter it; 6 Lascannon shots? Nope.

 

Pyroclasts... eh, they're an overpriced special weapon squad whose short range limits them to purely a single target per game. Spartan; and Terminators. It's best to assume they're going to hit whatever it is when they get there. You don't have Haywire, which is what Legion Dreadnoughts (not Contemptors) bring to the game. 155 for 2 Haywire hits a turn. For the cost of Fulgrim and the loss of the Kheres, you'll be able to make those changes to your army.

 

Currently, the meta is heavily favoured towards cheap, hard hitting walkers and AV12+ Flyers; a 6 Haywire Blasts a turn will not only cripple the tank, but force the occupants to get out and dangerous terrain check, but also be slowed by the terrain AND then take continual hits the following turn. His 275pt dread is no match for 4 Haywire toting Dreadnoughts for 310pts, AV14 or no.

[Theredknight]

The dread thing comes down to target saturation as well.. It was what I was thinkng of flanking with. Either 2 contemptors or 3 cheaper legion dreads. Tooled up with grav guns and fists and supported by 2 kheres Mortis, that's a hard hitting force!!

[Hesh Kadesh]

Replace Kheres with Deredeo and you're sorted.

[Theredknight]

Well, it's got me thinking, for my flanking force I was going to use 2 kheres Mortis, and palatines in Phobos. Might play about with it now. Problem is we can only flank with elites or fast attack.

I think I'd keep the predators though, iv yet to trial them properly for anti infantry.

Edited February 27, 2015 by Theredknight

[Theredknight]

Well, I have a couple of deredeos on the way next weekend, so il swap out a Mortis for one maybe.

 

I have my first win tonight at 4k.

 

I have found, despite much goading into charging by my we opponent. That it is better to stand there, and get 1-2 rounds of good shooting off as best you can, maybe accept a charge or 2 with the larger tactical squads, then counter with cc specialists.

 

eidolon smashed the red butchers squad with his hammer.

My jetbikes and javelins were pretty useless due to some bad rolls.

 

I took a fellblade, which literally demolished Khârn and bodyguard.

 

So yes, everything went well, and hopefully I can continue with the luck!

[Caustic63]

Well, I have a couple of deredeos on the way next weekend, so il swap out a Mortis for one maybe.

 

I have my first win tonight at 4k.

 

I have found, despite much goading into charging by my we opponent. That it is better to stand there, and get 1-2 rounds of good shooting off as best you can, maybe accept a charge or 2 with the larger tactical squads, then counter with cc specialists.

 

eidolon smashed the red butchers squad with his hammer.

My jetbikes and javelins were pretty useless due to some bad rolls.

 

I took a fellblade, which literally demolished Khârn and bodyguard.

 

So yes, everything went well, and hopefully I can continue with the luck!

 

Congratulations!

 

Just out of curiosity, what was the list you ran?

 

Imo I don't think its a great idea to buy models for and run units with experimental rules, even if they seem really good on paper. This is because until they hit an official publication, they could be changed (ie. nerfed) at any time. Think about what happened to the R'varna... it was an absolute monster until it was adjusted from AP3 to AP4 and now a bunch of people I know have regulated them to the dustbin. Once the official, sanctioned rules come out the unit is MUCH less likely to be changed and hence would be a pretty safe choice.

 

I'm also especially reluctant to use rules that have been captured in a photograph by someone for similar reasons, since that's even LESS official.

 

EDIT: Not to mention a competitive opponent would have legal standing to refuse to play against the unit/request it be removed from the list because of its unofficial status. I've seen that happen before and fortunately the guy who had the two R'varnas was a pretty good sport about running them as normal Riptides.

Edited March 5, 2015 by Caustic63