[HH1.0] Emperor's Children Tactica

[Theredknight]

Really? I think if someone refused to play just because of that, that's awful!

'No you can't use that because the rules are to hard' is a bit pathetic..

 

In The case of deredeos, I like the look of them, I'm sure they will be popular like a contemptor as well!

 

My list was

 

Eidolon j pack

 

Legion champ dpear snd boarding shield.

 

15 assault marines 3 power weapons.

15 tactical marines additional ccw

15 tactical marines additional ccw

 

2 apothecaries p weapons art arm.

 

10 palatines in Spartan, 5 spears 5 p swords. Shriekers.

 

Mortis Contemptor kheres

Mortis contemptor kheres

 

X2 predators with h bolters

Scorpius

 

2 javelins lascannons and multi meltas

6 jetbikes 2 volkites and sgt.

2 attack bikes multi melta

 

Fellblade

 

The javelins failed to pen or glance the Spartan And were destroyed by a backfield unit. Mortis came on and stripped a hp off it.

 

6 jetbikes came on and took one hp off a contemptor lots of lucky invuln saves or hed have been dead! They were charged by 2 assault marines and held in combat until another managed to make the range and outnumber them.

 

It was a very infantry heavy army. But I'd certainly consider swapping the jetbikes for something else.

[Slips]

Give the Jetbikes Squad-wide melta bombs and see if a Spartan can survive 6 S8 Ap1 Armorebane hits.

[Theredknight]

They came out on the wrong side, tbh, I thought the fellblade 2 Mortis would have stripped it of its hull points!

[Hesh Kadesh]

Nope. Unless destroyer, blasts do jack all to flare shields, so does S9.

 

Mortis. Eh, about the only thing that a Mortis can do excessively better is against a Flare Shield Spartan. And that rewuires a a 6 followed by a 5 to knock off a hull point.

 

It is why I say if you are taking dreads in your elites slots, take Legion Dreads with double haywire. Throw it in a dreanought drop,pod for not much more points than a kheres either. 2 of those on the Spartan, and maybe a Deredeo on the flank and you've killed it first turn.

[Theredknight]

Unfortunatly we can only flank with elites or fast attack, fast attack doesn't seem to be working out to well at the moment though. In fact next to useless last couple of games. The only one that succeeded was the attack nikes, one on its last wound got round the back of a contemptor and melted it's rear armour.

 

The armies I play generally don't take flare shields, armoured ceremite, but no flares. I was hoping to glance it to bits by turn 2, and fury the red butchers but it had one persistant hull point I couldbt get rid of.

 

The fellblade made its points back and more, I will probably always take one of these as a Lord of war.

 

I'm Beginning to really feel that with ec, you have to attempt to thin out the army before you get in there. Accepting a charge from the enemy and then counter charging could be a possible tactic.

 

As someone said there are many other armies that generally do combat better than us, and don't have the added points sink of tooled up forced challenges with no benefits for winning. Even we get fnp I think from winning a combat!

 

The outflank could be good, but very situational and dependant upon your opponent. I have thought about flanking with some seekers with scorpius bolts against the right targets would make a mess. But for those points I can have a contemptor talon of 2..tough times. As hesh says, give them both graviton fists and wreck tanks/infantry maybe a better flanking force?

[Hesh Kadesh]

Outflanking Mortis still suck, it makes no difference. Actually it makes them worse, as they lose a turn of shooting at least.

 

I'd rather take a Deredeo, get all my turns lf shooting and better at it. I can afford to Move on the first turn as well. That 48" range is awesome. 24" not so much.

 

Outflanking Scorpius Bolts? Well Scorpius bolts are heavy.

Edited March 6, 2015 by Hesh Kadesh

[Caustic63]

I've been seeing lots of talk lately about the Delegatus Consul and his unique Rite of War, but realistically it's not an amazing investment to have your army led by one... especially for Emperor's Children because of our combat focus where statistics matter. For those of you who haven't seen the rules for this new Consul choice, for the price of a Thunderhammer you can upgrade your Centurion to have the Master of the Legion rule and all the benefits that come along with it (taking a Command Squad, two dice warlord traits, etc). Factoring in the cost of Artificer Armour (which the Praetor gets included) you end up paying 15 less points for considerably worse stats (and lack of access to a Paragon Blade).

 

His Rite of War, Chosen Duty, is nearly identical to Pride of the Legion except its only Veterans that are Troops (and compulsory) and your Delegatus gives you +1 VP if he survives the battle and your opponent +1 VP (in addition to Warlord) if he dies which he is likely to do thanks to mandatory challenges when playing Emperor's Children. To be honest Pride of the Legion seems to make more sense due to its flexibility and more difficult to claim Victory Point bonus.

 

My final opinion on this Consul is to only run him if a) You are a miser and just want to get MoL for the cheapest price possible (though if thats the case then why not take Tarvitz?) or b) If you want to run his Rite of War and play a game of keep-away-from-your-opponent with a Delegatus on a Jetbike.

 

Far more interesting to me is the other choice, the Praevian Consul. Think of him as the Automata Consul, as for the price of a Legion Champion he joins a unit of slotless Vorax or Castellax Automata (and may not leave) but he gives them some very interesting opinions. First off, he makes them Legionnaires of your chosen legion (or you can take Scout, Tank Hunters, or Furious Charge) which opens up some cool doors. In the case of Emperor's Children, your Automata can take Sonic Shriekers for the same price as Phoenix Terminators.

 

Hence, the combo I'm looking at is Praevian (Spear, Boarding Shield) joining 3xVorax Automata with Shriekers. Since they already have Scout and Fleet, they are workable in terms of mobility and thanks to his Cortex Controller they can Run and Sweep. I'll be doing some testing with them shortly.

[Theredknight]

Yeah it'd be nice to know how it works out, I was thinking of taking one with castellex and walking down the centre line with them gunning things down. Giving them shrieker a makes them go at the same time as regular marines, which is better than dying. But is it worth it?

[Hesh Kadesh]

Praevians are always worth it. Some legions just get more out of it than others.

[Caustic63]

I've done some testing with the Emperor's Children Praevian, and combined with Vorax Automata and Sonic Shriekers it seems like a capable selection in a Legion army. Lately though I've been thinking about the possibility of using Legion units in an unbound army in 40K. This comes from the fact that Emperor's Children have better Troops in 40K, while they have better Fast Attack and Melee units in 30K. Has anyone experimented with this sort of arrangement to see what comes out of it? Maru Skara backed up by Noise Marines could make for a very effective army.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Personally, no, as it's not legal per RAW. Sounds intriguing though.

[Theredknight]

Iv been painting my guys furiously last 2/3 weeks so not had much war lately :-(

I am however getting an imperial sector and scenery this weekend, so will be busy with that!

I have close to 9k ec (can add a warhound in as well) havent got much left to paint, 2 deredeos, bits and bobs, 5 phoenix Termies and 5 kakophoni, oh and an Achilles. Might make some characters more up soon though.

Il be switching out my Contemptor Mortis arms for grav guns and ccw, for flanking stompage.

Tempted to even get s praevan and vorax for extra flanking.

[MorgothNL]

Do any of you guys have experience with both the command squad and palatine blades?

 

I'm planning on running Eidolon + jump pack with either 5 command squad models, or 10 palatine blades (all jump packs of course). But I'm having a hard time deciding which would be better. I don't have the 'time' to playtest both versions extensively and I do need to start making the choice so I can buy the correct models.

 

This is my dillema in:

 

Command squad

Pro's:

- 2+ save

- MELTABOMBS

- Free FOC slot

- option for invul save

- fearless

 

Cons: 

- max 5 models

- Expensive per model (lacking a 'discount' like most 30k models do, since they only can go up to 5)

 

 

 

Palatine Blades

Pro's: 

- 10 man unit cap

- Acces to phoenix spears (though with Eidolon in the squad and 10 rending blades, the 10pts might be wasted on overkill)

 

 

Cons:

- 3+ save

- no meltabombs

- no acces to apothecary (though this is only applicable if I decide to not run them with JP one day, since the apothecary can't take a JP -.- )

- Take up an elite slot

 

 

 

 

Hopefully someone who has used them both, or has extensively used on of them (with JP), can help me decide.

 

For you info, 5 command squad equals about 7 palatines.  (but 5 is max for command squad and the palatines can go up to 10).

Edited April 14, 2015 by MorgothNL

[Slips]

If you're not running Maru Skara (or even if you are, yay 3 HQ slots) you can always take a Jump Pack Primus Medicae for FNP. He'd also be another potential Book 4 Relic Carrier.

 

Makes the squad that much of a bigger target though.

 

I'd personally go for the Palatines since on the Charge, thats a lot of Ap2 at initiative. 5/10 spears max though if you're strapped for points.

 

The Palatine Prefector can also take Melta Bombs, btw.

[ThatOneMarshal]

The palatines can provide the commander with meatshields and deal with hordes also the commanders thunderhhammer is usually enough for most vehicles. A 3+ save is balanced our by being a bit cheaper.

 

It's funny when I first found out about the Horus heresy I wanted to do an emperors children force. I feel much alike them in that we are both perfectionists. Gameplay wise I don't like them all that much, not because of power level mind you but because they are so close to my black templars gameplay wise. It doesn't help that they both have crusader ;).

[Theredknight]

Your like the emperors children? I dread to see what your bedroom looks like!!

[Hesh Kadesh]

You can't take spears except characters. Chosen warriors are not characters ,(neither is the ancient, strangely enough).

[Theredknight]

I was referring to palatines who can

[Caustic63]

I think that Palatine Blades (in their improved version) are always a better choice then a Command Squad. Rending, Shriekers, access to Power Spears, Counterattack, and the ability to take a larger squad (plus benefit from the Maru Skara) all make them by far the better of the two choices. My favorite way to run them is in a squad of 9 with 3 Spears, Shriekers and Eidolon in a Dreadclaw.

[Theredknight]

Thought id see if anyone has had any good games lately?

 

I played today 3500 my army was

 

Eidolon j pack

 

16man assault squad, 3 pwr weapons, sgt art armour, spear and shield.

 

16 tacs, sgt combi flamer, art armoyr

16 tacs sgt power fist, art armour

 

10 palatines 5 spears, 5 p swords

 

Phobos arm ceremite

Predators x2 , h bolter sponsons and pintle h bolter

 

Sicaran

Deredeo with launcher

2 apothecaries with p sword and volkite

 

10 Tac support squad volkite calivers

Javelin tl las and mm

Fellblade armoured ceremite, pintle h bolter.

 

 

Good game, I lost, but had some unlucky rolls too. I was playing blood Angels, and let me tell you the photonic blade is dirty!

Charges me at praetor initiative, knocking all my guys and eidolon to ws1.

Deleted a 14 man squad and eidolon, then charged the tacticals and deleted those. Charged my with 3 guys :cuss.

Really made me wish that we didn't have the crappy lucius blade and actually had a decent relic..sucks to be EC lol if it only worked in challenges then fair enough, but it is just like that all the time. Anyway I won't go down that road again!

 

I have to say, I love the fellblade, it causes absolute havoc.

Deredeo was ok,I'm still getting used to what I should aim it at.. Might try the plasma one soon though, or have 2...

Land raider was immobilised so say where I deployed it, palatines say it out until t3.

Tac support squad did pretty well.

 

I guess I picked the wrong objectives up, most of them I picked were his home objectives, the way it rolls I guess. Think the score was 6-9 in the end.

 

Anyone tried a deredeo yet?

[Slips]

I'd aim the Deredeos missile at Rhinos or MEQs or anything with a Side armor of 12 or lower. The Ap3 and Pinning really makes it worth shooting at blobs or mobile units since it will stop them from running around and neuter their shooting.

 

Autocannons use them to tackle priority targets like av12-13 or Flyers. The S8 is nice for denying FNP on T4 Units but with Ap4 and Sunder its mostly for vehicle hunting.

 

What was the Preator with Photonic Blade on? If it was a jetbike, I would've put the Deredeos Missiles on it for as long as you could to Pin him in place then just hop around the unit with JP Squad + Eidolon and kill other things.

 

Other than that, it seems like it was mostly the Dice getting you. That T1 Immobilized Land Raider sure sucks.

As of now, I'm really leaning towards Air-Cav EC with Outflanking Grav Contemptors / Multi-Melta Jetbikes, 2 Fire Raptors and a Deredeo as HS and a Kraken-Lightning as a Spartan Buster. Depending on points, I might also try the Xiphon (really hoping it gets a points drop) in addition to the rest.

 

Other than that, core will be Eidolon + Champion w/ VSH, 2 10(+) Man Assaults with some gear and 10 Palatines with JP.

 

Also, another problem of yours might be Target Saturation. On paper, your only real standout threat is the Fellblade and whatever Eidolon Joins. The rest of the list is just MEQs that will be footslogging around and a single Javelin can die to Bolters so not the best form of a threat if theres only one.

Edited April 19, 2015 by Slipstreams

[Hesh Kadesh]

How did you get knocked to I1?

 

MODELS who've suffered an UNSAVED WOUND get Concussed. Concussed only occurs after you've rolled for saves, and survived. It effects models, not units, so concussive is only against multiwound models.

 

He can't just charge at I5, cause one wound and concuss an entire squad.

[Slips]

How did you get knocked to I1?

 

MODELS who've suffered an UNSAVED WOUND get Concussed. Concussed only occurs after you've rolled for saves, and survived. It effects models, not units, so concussive is only against multiwound models.

 

He can't just charge at I5, cause one wound and concuss an entire squad.

Photonic Blade has Blind; though Blind affects WS/BS so I still wouldn't know..

[Hesh Kadesh]

And it says WSI. My reading comprehensions gone out the window. Back to work for a rest tomorrow I think. My mistake!

[Slips]

And it says WSI. My reading comprehensions gone out the window. Back to work for a rest tomorrow I think. My mistake!

Bah dont worry. I also understood I1 for some reason on my first pass but let it slide :P