Memento Of Prospero Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 I forgot you had to note that in HH. Start off with Tartaros/Indominus, probably throw in an option for Cataphractii. I would make them Cataphractii, especially if they are salvaged. As the new patterns rolled out, they could have received the decommissioned models of other legions and would give you good grounds for a discount with the associated disadvantages (no overwatch, 5+ invul) If you want mining theme for them, I would give them breaching charges. Very volatile and potent, one use only as well. Too much one use with severe drawbacks is not something an astartes would use. Even the world eaters have more reliable weaponry and they aren't really known for their great care. Since they are 1 wound models with no stat boost, look to compare them to gorgons for options and efficiency. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298232-il-vii-the-berserkers-of-uran-thread-1/page/9/#findComment-3978071 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raktra Posted March 16, 2015 Author Share Posted March 16, 2015 Two wounds now ;) I forgot about breaching charges! Cool idea. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298232-il-vii-the-berserkers-of-uran-thread-1/page/9/#findComment-3978074 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memento Of Prospero Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Two wounds now I forgot about breaching charges! Cool idea. Then you can definitely look to butchers for power level comparison ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298232-il-vii-the-berserkers-of-uran-thread-1/page/9/#findComment-3978078 Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 So, a 3+/6++? They definitely need to be cheaper. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298232-il-vii-the-berserkers-of-uran-thread-1/page/9/#findComment-3978179 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memento Of Prospero Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 So, a 3+/6++? They definitely need to be cheaper. or they need to be better ;) It's an elite slot and they need a reason to be a fearsome presence on the battlefield. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298232-il-vii-the-berserkers-of-uran-thread-1/page/9/#findComment-3978182 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raktra Posted March 16, 2015 Author Share Posted March 16, 2015 2+, but yeah, I can work on improvements no problem. Might change their role up a bit, the fluff was weak anyway. On a side note, I'm not doing the psychic discipline anymore. Berserkers aren't a psyker Legion, it's unneccessary. I'll just call Biomancy "Discipline of Fury" in my head. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298232-il-vii-the-berserkers-of-uran-thread-1/page/9/#findComment-3978403 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memento Of Prospero Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Since you are going for the 2 wounds, I would give them a hulking mining behemoth vibe with cataphractii armour. You could go with : Wrecking Crew : All the unit's attacks have the Rending special rule. In addition, the unit gains Hammer of Wrath D3 on the charge. Improvised cutting weapons (power drills would look awesome here) +2 S AP 3 2 handed, concussive. Overload : Gains the Smash special rule once per game. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298232-il-vii-the-berserkers-of-uran-thread-1/page/9/#findComment-3978422 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raktra Posted March 20, 2015 Author Share Posted March 20, 2015 Something I've forgot since the start - any ideas on what I could have for the Legion symbol for these guys? I can't think of anything that isn't embarrassingly generic. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298232-il-vii-the-berserkers-of-uran-thread-1/page/9/#findComment-3982448 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 I was going to say the Ouroboros but thats the 40k TS symbol... Honestly no ideas as of right now.. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298232-il-vii-the-berserkers-of-uran-thread-1/page/9/#findComment-3982454 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athrawes Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 To figure that out you need to answer a few questions: Is the symbol from before their Primarch was found or after. Not every Legion had their Primarch change their symbol. If' it's pre primarch, then what were they called before they were Berzerkers, and what symbol would fit this. If it was after they found their Primarch, they you have more free range. What do you think represents Uran in your mind? My suggestion would be to look at what was formative for your primarch, the overthrowing of the Angels. What about a the symbol of a Burning wing? It's relatively straight forward to paint or sculpt but is dripping in symbolism for them. Fire means destruction but it also represents cleansing flame and rebirth. The wing of course represents the Angels. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298232-il-vii-the-berserkers-of-uran-thread-1/page/9/#findComment-3982457 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raktra Posted March 20, 2015 Author Share Posted March 20, 2015 I'll focus on post-Primarch, not yet figured much of the pre-stuff. So, themes: Fear/hate of angels Chains Incarceration Overwhelming force The seeing anatomies thing I like the idea of a harmed wing. Maybe a shackled/clipped one? Though that feels a bit... Gentle? Could use that on the vets though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298232-il-vii-the-berserkers-of-uran-thread-1/page/9/#findComment-3982718 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 A Flaming/Bloody Halo surrounded by Bloodied/Flaming, Frayed Wings? With a Shattered Chain encircling the whole thing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298232-il-vii-the-berserkers-of-uran-thread-1/page/9/#findComment-3982733 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athrawes Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 The Chained Wing. It has to be that, great idea. This is really over decorative version (Like what might be on a banner) but the basic idea of the crossed chains over a wing is awesome. http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs12/f/2006/334/3/d/Chained_Wings_by_BasiliskZero.jpg Maybe on standard troops it could be a single wing with crossed chains, in fact if you did this, you could use the forgeworld emperors children should pads and sculpt (or just cut lengths of jewelers chain) chains over it. Easy and awesome looking modeling solution! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298232-il-vii-the-berserkers-of-uran-thread-1/page/9/#findComment-3982776 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raktra Posted March 20, 2015 Author Share Posted March 20, 2015 Oh yeah, I forgot that was their symbol! Gives me an idea for Raktra's base as well (if ever he becomes a reality!). Slips - broken halos on the termies (y) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298232-il-vii-the-berserkers-of-uran-thread-1/page/9/#findComment-3982785 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Oh yeah, I forgot that was their symbol! Gives me an idea for Raktra's base as well (if ever he becomes a reality!). Slips - broken halos on the termies (y) I LIKE IT! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298232-il-vii-the-berserkers-of-uran-thread-1/page/9/#findComment-3982796 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raktra Posted March 23, 2015 Author Share Posted March 23, 2015 So I've had a better idea for the termies thanks to you guys with the rules and symbols. Godbreaker Terminators - 250pts WS5 BS4 S4 T4 W2 I4 A2 LD9 Sv2+ WS5 BS4 S4 T4 W2 I4 A3 LD9 Sv2+ (Sargeant) Unit Composition 4 Terminators 1 Sargeant Type Infantry Infantry, character (sargeant) Wargear Ceramite Drill Cataphractii Terminator Armour Mining torch Special Rules LA: BoU Stubborn Born to Die Sent to Destroy Ceramite Drill - RNG: - S:+2 AP:3 Melee, Concussive, two-handed Overdrive - Once per game, at the start of any Assault phase, a unit of Godbreakers may overdrive their weapons. If they choose to do this, they receive the Smash special rule for the remainder of the turn. Mining Torch - RNG: 12" S:3 AP:3 Assault 1 Born to Die - Models with this special rule may never be a scoring unit, regardless of the scenario or mission being played. Sent to Destroy - All the unit's close combat attacks have the Rending special rule. In addition, the unit gains Hammer of Wrath (D3) on the charge. Options May add up to 5 extra Terminators - 45pts per model Any model may replace his mining torch with: Single breaching charge - 5pts Fluff later, but kinda feels tidier? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298232-il-vii-the-berserkers-of-uran-thread-1/page/9/#findComment-3985042 Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Definitely tidier. The weapons look effective and the points feel right-ish. (Relatively easy to work out since it's half equipment.) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298232-il-vii-the-berserkers-of-uran-thread-1/page/9/#findComment-3985049 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memento Of Prospero Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Awesome. The only thing I would think about is giving the unit an option for a specialist weapon per 5 or something special for the sergeant. Otherwise it looks great! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298232-il-vii-the-berserkers-of-uran-thread-1/page/9/#findComment-3986884 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memento Of Prospero Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Love the Breacher charge option! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298232-il-vii-the-berserkers-of-uran-thread-1/page/9/#findComment-3989426 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raktra Posted March 27, 2015 Author Share Posted March 27, 2015 I'm a dolphin now.I wonder how I could model the Godbreakers, other than the possibly obvious converted Red Butchers route.Aside from doing some playtests, neatening up and refinement, do you guys reckon that's the crunch-side of things done? I know I've neglected the fluff a bit (a lot. A lot), and I could stand to actually make some test minis for these guys, plus do the little sketches I had in mind (and do some not terrible ones for Sim). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298232-il-vii-the-berserkers-of-uran-thread-1/page/9/#findComment-3989427 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memento Of Prospero Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 I was looking over your legion special rules. unless you have a character in the unit, you will most likely never benefit from your +1 to wound against other legions. Since we went with D3 hammer of wrath on your glorious terminators, and that since you dislike jump infantry, why not give your infantry hammer of wrath as a special rule? This would represent well a earthshattering charge. I'm a dolphin now.I wonder how I could model the Godbreakers, other than the possibly obvious converted Red Butchers route.Aside from doing some playtests, neatening up and refinement, do you guys reckon that's the crunch-side of things done? I know I've neglected the fluff a bit (a lot. A lot), and I could stand to actually make some test minis for these guys, plus do the little sketches I had in mind (and do some not terrible ones for Sim). Well, I have a spare cataphractii model, I could give it a go ;) I have a pretty good idea for one. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298232-il-vii-the-berserkers-of-uran-thread-1/page/9/#findComment-3990952 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raktra Posted March 29, 2015 Author Share Posted March 29, 2015 I did that intentionally with the Legion rules, to try and keep it sort of in-line for 30k's internal balance. Also why I've given beefy WS to my unique sarges. Convert away! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298232-il-vii-the-berserkers-of-uran-thread-1/page/9/#findComment-3990969 Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 That dolphin is freaky. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298232-il-vii-the-berserkers-of-uran-thread-1/page/9/#findComment-3990975 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raktra Posted April 2, 2015 Author Share Posted April 2, 2015 I forgot to say in my last comment - part of the reason the Legion rules being as they are is I loooooove herohammer, so I wanted to encourage it. Stuck responding on my phone at the minute, so I can't comfortably type as much as I'd like >.> Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298232-il-vii-the-berserkers-of-uran-thread-1/page/9/#findComment-3995568 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grifftofer Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Ok. So I had a bit of a read through everything, then went back and made a few notes on certain bits. Executioners: A couple of things here. Firstly the "Down and Out" special rule: If a unit consisting of at least three models that all share this special rule performs a Hammer of Wrath attack, it gains +1 Initiative for that turn Is this giving the unit +1 Initiative on it's attacks or for it's HoW? I assume the first as the second is already I10. If this is the case then I feel that the unit needs a points increase. I say this as currently they are very similar to Dark Furies, the main difference comes in the weapons and I would contend that having "Brutal Wounds" somewhat makes up for the fact that they have a lower base AP. You also have furious charge, which kicks your legion rule in against most enemies; dual bolt pistols, for a shooting attack; and the Impact Thrusters which actually make you more maneuverable than jump packs (see below). Impact Thrusters: Firstly I like the idea, it's very cool. I just feel they need some adjustments to bring them into line with jump packs. Especially if they are going to be a replacement for jump packs (now called JPs for ease) on units like destroyers/assault squads etc. The movement bonus works out at about the same as JPs, about 6" per turn. However a JP can only be used to move OR to assault, so now the Impact Thrusters get better: they always provide HoW, as well as consolidation/run enhancement. True you can deepstrike with JPs but that doesn't count as highly in my mind as there are definite drawbacks to that method of deployment already. Add onto this the fact that you are not bulky for transport purposes and treat terrain as infantry makes these much better IMO. On the transport front, do you get the additional movement when you deploy from a vehicle? It might be worth adding something to confirm this one way or the other. My suggestions to do this is to make all difficult terrain that you move through with Impact Thrusters dangerous. Jumping around like that is surely going to end with you hitting a wall at some point. And make it so that you only get HoW when rolling 10+ on the charge (including the +3 from the equipment). I think this would capture the feel of them, but make it so you only get the bonus when at high speed. Although you still get it the majority of the time. Also make them a straight replacement for JPs rather than a separate wargear option. I'm not sure this would be completely balanced, but it feels closer. The Primarch Raktra: The main thing I think with him is to drop his Attacks value by one. No other Primarch has 6A base, they all get it through their equipment in some way. Angron has Gorfather and Gorechild to get to 6; Corvus gets it effectively through his 2-handed weapon combinations. Thus I think that Raktra should only have 5 base, I doubt it would affect his killing power that much given the other rules he has and it feels more in line with the others. Dorran: I quite like him. Though I think that his Anatomical Precision should give him something like Precision Shots and/or Strikes. Though that is possibly just a personal thing. Vyrn's RoW: Right now I think it needs a little additional downside to make it balance out. Something along the lines of giving away an additional VP if Vyrn himself is killed, due to his influence holding the line together. Or something. Relic: The two-handed profile should either have AP2 because all attacks made by someone with smash are AP2, or AP4 and leave it to the reader to figure out the Smash rule. AP3 seems redundant as it will be overruled by Smash. Lastly your Godbreakers: I think that the Mining Torch should probably count as a Hand Flamer rather than being another unique weapon (there are already quite a lot of these in the Legion). Also I think that the HoW part of Sent to Destroy would need re-wording as HoW is per model rather than per unit. You might get someone saying they get D3 HoW hits each... If that is the way it is intended then I think that should be changed, it seems a little over the top to me. Hope my suggestions interest you. I really like what you have so far, just hoping to help out a little. Edit due to stupidly pressing post by accident in the middle of writing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298232-il-vii-the-berserkers-of-uran-thread-1/page/9/#findComment-4008741 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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