The NEW "What will 2014 Bring?" thread

[Red-beard]

For those people out there anguishing over no more assault units or DC dreadnoughts as troops, there is an assault troop option in the Deathstorm box set.

 

In the box set, there is a 5-man named DC jump pack squad that is a troop unit. You do have to use the DC with the exact weapon load out in the unit (which isn't cheap...PF/TH/inferno pistol/power sword), but they are troops instead of elite. Also, the named DC dreadnought in that box set is a troop and not elite. 

 

So you could take the DC dread and the 5-man DC unit and fulfill both troop options. 

[Praefectus Invictus]

could you just take the dread?

[Red-beard]

I don't see why you couldn't.

 

For reference, the DC dread that is a troop unit is named "Cassor the Damned". The DC jump pack squad that is a troop unit is named "Raphen's Death Company". Raphen is a special DC character in the unit (one of the five) that wields a TH and has one extra base attack. 

[Jorre]

Does anybody know if they have changed the number of models you can take in a single death company squad?

[girot]

I'm pretty flush on tactical marines. I'm in for the new squad but they are gonna get modelled as options nd the rest diluted to flavor my existing battle company.

Does anybody know if they have changed the number of models you can take in a single death company squad?

Excellent question!

[Morticon]

Aaaand woke up to nothing new yet- booo! 

 

I'm not sure who said it, but Assault marines have NOT always been Troops. 

The 3rd ed codex (and the second edition dex, to my knowledge!) did not have jump/assault marines as Troops.  It was only with the PDF codex that we got it.  

 

There was a brief, brief time when our dex was rolled into the core rulebook as a hold over until the dex, and then we had jumpy troops - but that was removed quickly and didnt happen again for years and years after. 

It sucks when that is a player's point of entry- when its their "James Bond" and they wind up changing it.  But, for me, this release is like bringing back Sean Connery (after George Lazenby :P  ).  As mentioned, its bringing BA back to what the old fluff has always said they were -largely codex adherent with a few changes.  As a competitive gamer, i was hamstrung intro rocking razorback assault squad guys.  It really shaped my lists- now, i get to rock out like 3rd/4th ed again. 

[knife&fork]

3rd ed codex was the odd man out, in both RT and 2nd ed (aka best ed!) assault marines were 'squads'. Then again everything not a character or vehicle was 'squads'.

Terminators, bikes, assault marines, tacticals, scouts... and so on. 

[Zynk Kaladin]

I'm looking forward to experiencing the older-type BA playstyle.  I entered at the end of 3rd when I was just a wee lad sucking at the Emperor's teet and I had absolutely no idea what I was doing until 5th.  I've always loved jump pack assault marines.  Metal bawkz rodeo just doesn't suit my interests.

 

I'm slightly worried about our weakened alpha strike capabilities.  I've grown used to having melta Fragiosos slaging enemy troop transports early.  MM attack bikes and a Raven look like they'll be a staple.

[Zynk Kaladin]

That cheap librarian though.  Beep beep prescience truck.

[Quixus]

if we do get to use 6 elite slots... use a bunch of them as vanguard??

Why would you if they lose their unique ability to assault after deep striking? They are pretty much overpriced Assault Marines.

[SnorriSnorrison]

The thing about the whole change is...how are you going to pull off a charge now with your troops? From Rhinos? Nope. Not from RB, either. Podding your tacs seems to be the only thing to get them in flamer distance. And then you'll still have to invest in at least one RAS if you want mobile melta.

If rumours hold true, VAS are utterly useless. Not that I've been using them a lot during the last 2 editions, but I really wanted to. Ah, well. Too bad about the beautiful models.

Oh, and I do hope I can field an artificer captain now.


Snorri

[Drunken Angel]

The thing about the whole change is...how are you going to pull off a charge now with your troops? From Rhinos? Nope. Not from RB, either. Podding your tacs seems to be the only thing to get them in flamer distance. And then you'll still have to invest in at least one RAS if you want mobile melta.

If rumours hold true, VAS are utterly useless. Not that I've been using them a lot during the last 2 editions, but I really wanted to. Ah, well. Too bad about the beautiful models.

Oh, and I do hope I can field an artificer captain now.

Snorri

I think you will get him Snorri.

Thing is which power armour codex has cheap assault vehicles now? I can't think of any off the top of my head. So its bikes, land raiders, storm ravens, and jump pack troops. The only codex that can manage I5 S5 power armour assaults natively is BA. I will take correction on this if anyone else can suggest otherwise.

[appiah4]

Guys, I missed the whole leak-storm, and reading the whole thread went over my head a bit.  If any of you have answers to these, could you please let me know?

 

Is the Honor Guard gone for good?  Do we know the options for its replacement? (Command Squad?)

 

How exactly does the +1I detachment thing work?  1HQ, 1 Elite, 2 Troops, and can take up to 3 more Elites - is that the most you can take here?  What if I want some HS or FA units to add to it?  I can add, but they lack the +1I?

 

Death Company can no longer take Land Raiders as dedicated transport?  Have to take it from a HS slot?

 

Do Furioso Dreadnoughts retain AV13?  Any info about Frag Cannons?

 

What happened with Tycho?  No more AP2? No more special ammo?  Can anyone confirm?

 

As I posted in the other thread, this sounds like a return to the 3rd Ed. Codex, I'm super happy.

[Bartali]

Wow, Mephiston is straight up garbage. 3wounds, really? The guy that mastered the black rage, turned his gene seed back on again is endowed with Ole Sangy boys power blah blah has 3 wounds and can now be instakilled by s10 AND he still only has ap3 AND no inv save? Thanks GW, it's not like he was my favorite character or anything. Assault troops are no longer troops? They have been a troop choice since Rogue Trader. The chapter that is all about assault marines doesn't do them better than Ravenguard, we lost them as troops and that other chapter gets to use jump packs in movement and assault phase but we don't? Yeah, looks like all my BA stuff will be riding the shelf and ill have red marines again. Don't get me started on ws4 D Co that don't reroll wounds with a chap, oh and we don't have 3 wound chaps anymore, I'm done. This is worse than the 2nd to 3red transition.

I don't think it's a bad as 2nd to 3rd, that made me quit the hobby!

It's true that the codex seem to have lost a lot of flavor and many units that had no reason to get nerf got hit hard....

Still I can't help to think that if you apply the crazy pants GW design logic we might be the strongest 7th ed codex so far?

Double stacking initiative buffs and extra WS could give us a serious edge. Together with some point reductions we could now actually be able to take enough units for that to be effective.

I'll admit I'm initially down on this codex release. Assault Marines out of troops, and that Elite slot make me sad.

I'm marginally optimistic that we can make something out of the detachment (as k&f mentions, we're likely to be going before most things in Assault bar Eldar if we get the charge)

Very basic template of where I'm thinking

Astorath

Sang Priest w/ JP

10x DC w/ JP

10x Sang Guard

Furioso w/ Pod

Furioso w/ Pod

5x Tacticals w/ Pod

5x Scouts

+ some stuff

[simison]

Guys, I missed the whole leak-storm, and reading the whole thread went over my head a bit.  If any of you have answers to these, could you please let me know?

 

Is the Honor Guard gone for good?  Do we know the options for its replacement? (Command Squad?)

 

How exactly does the +1I detachment thing work?  1HQ, 1 Elite, 2 Troops, and can take up to 3 more Elites - is that the most you can take here?  What if I want some HS or FA units to add to it?  I can add, but they lack the +1I?

 

Death Company can no longer take Land Raiders as dedicated transport?  Have to take it from a HS slot?

 

Do Furioso Dreadnoughts retain AV13?  Any info about Frag Cannons?

 

What happened with Tycho?  No more AP2? No more special ammo?  Can anyone confirm?

 

Most of your questions haven't been answered yet. No word on the Frag cannon, Furiso forward AV, or Tycho. And I'm not sure about the alt FOC and how it works yet. I think the Honor Guard has been replaced by the Command squad, but not sure.

 

...well, I'm super helpful, aren't I?

 

EDIT: Wait, I think I can answer the LR one. Only the terminators can use it as a Dedicated Transport, otherwise, it's HS slot.

[appiah4]

I will answer my Furioso question partially; someone on Warseer confirmed that Furiosos are WS6 and AV13, and with added Magna Grapple (+?) and Blood Talons (+10) cost 140 pts.  My guess is Magna Grapple is now 10 pts and Furiosos are 120 pts.  Makes taking the DC Dreadnought rather pointless, unless you really want those 6 attacks on the charge and NCSMW, but I'd go with the Furioso with Talons anytime.

 

I'd be really happy if someone could advise on how the detachment works, because I really can't see myself making an army list with only 3 Elite slots, with the way things are now..

[Silverson]

After I good night sleep I'm still getting my head around this release. Although I have only played blood angels as jumping across the filed on jump packs the change to tactical squads can easily be made up for by the fact we now have viable death company, sanguinary guard and special characters. Even the Dante (rumoured low) hq tax is a trivial matter because I always run a librarian dread and most people ran sanguinary priests.

 

I do feel a bit for people that love their vanguard vets as they now seem like the ugly duckling of the pond.

 

Any news on Astroath the grim? Most of the games I have played I have used him and now that jump death company have become viable I'll even take a simple points drop to.

[appiah4]

After I good night sleep I'm still getting my head around this release. Although I have only played blood angels as jumping across the filed on jump packs the change to tactical squads can easily be made up for by the fact we now have viable death company, sanguinary guard and special characters. Even the Dante (rumoured low) hq tax is a trivial matter because I always run a librarian dread and most people ran sanguinary priests.

 

I do feel a bit for people that love their vanguard vets as they now seem like the ugly duckling of the pond.

 

Any news on Astroath the grim? Most of the games I have played I have used him and now that jump death company have become viable I'll even take a simple points drop to.

 

He's in, and he gives DC unit he joins re-rolls to wound on the assault.

[Quixus]

He's in, and he gives DC unit he joins re-rolls to wound on the assault.

And what do normal chaplains do, when they join the DC?

[SonOfThunder]

I'm hoping Astorath became a bit cheaper as well, he seems to be a good option for running jump DC. I've seen in several comments people complaining about the loss of our reclusiarchs, but I haven't seen that in the warseer rumor list. Is that a "confirmed" rumor?

 

He's in, and he gives DC unit he joins re-rolls to wound on the assault.

And what do normal chaplains do, when they join the DC?

 

Apparently nothing special. They probably have hatred like vanilla chaplains, which lets you reroll to-hit the first round of an assault, regardless of who got the charge. But DC get no special benefit out of it.

[appiah4]

Reclusiarch confirmed to be out of the codex, Chaplains as per C:SM, only re-roll to hit on charge (Hatred), Astorath makes DC re-roll to wound.

 

I wonder if Chaplains are Elite or HQ.. Anyone who knows the C:SM army list can speculate?

[Remtek]

Chaplains are HQ for C:SM. Though i can't see them beating a ML2 Libby as they will probably be 5 points cheaper. 

[Ishagu]

Some people are reacting negatively.

 

As a totally objective and very experienced player let me say this:

 

The codex is going to be different, NOT weaker. It's definitely stronger in a lot of ways, but indeed some units have been nerfed.

 

Remember - do not look to evaluate a unit in a vacuum. Wait and see how everything works together!

[appiah4]

Any word on whether 5 man Tac squads can take a special or heavy weapon?

[Remtek]

Yeah, Codex is alot stronger now. 

 

Appiah5: Yes, it was confirmed on Warseer. Though only a rumor.