The NEW "What will 2014 Bring?" thread

[Silverson]

With mephiston and psychic powers guys all psykers already get the non tabled power of "force" and still get the primaris power when rolling on the same table so I would say that unless it's stated in the codex then even if Mephiston rolls both of his powers on biomancy(or his other options) then he would still be focused? And get the primaris.

[Ishagu]

Mephi should be in big squads he buffs using the Divination tree imo. He can also murder most MCs now too.

You can hide him in squad that gets challenged by a deamon prince and force kill it while he chews through your sqd and Sgt first. Other mc's like most Tyranid monsters will be a walk in the park for him.

[sockwithaticket]

 

This might be a bit Ranty so I apologise, but we are starting to get a few blind stick in the muds posting the same garbage!

 

Honestly all these people complaining about Blood Angels loosing their flavour?? Really are you that blind or are you just regurgitating what you've heard other people say on the popular blogs ?

 

Assault marines are no longer troops, ok I know it sucks! You can no longer take a complete Jump pack only list, but to be honest that list has not been remotely competative since 5th ed and guess what if its that important to you you still have the option of running it, it will just be an unbound list! Guess what else! an unbound list with our new dex will be 10x more competative than our old 5th ed list running a Battle Forged list. So please get over it!! We have all the same units we used to have all the selection options we used to have, pretty much EVERYTHING has either improved or stayed the same. The only difference is some units have changed force org slots.

 

This new Codex has more viable units in it that any other codex we have had before. How that means we have less flavour is beyond me! If you think I am wrong please tell me how we are loosing our flavour? Now that we can actually take Death company with jump packs, Sanguinary Guard are cheap enough to consider using! Assault marines are cheaper! Tanks all still have fast if you want them to OR you can have normal ones and not pay the tax!

 

I cant wait to get my hands on this book and chew the crap out of its flavourful pages!

 

Excellent post Jorre.

 

I for one, as someone who was building an all jump-pack list, always felt a nagging doubt at the back of my mind telling me that I should run at least some tacticals since the BA are a codex chapter. So I welcome the changes because, in terms of flavour, it seems like the BA are returning to their roots and this is confirmed for me by Morticon's posts about the similarities between the rumours and 3rd edition. I am 100% cool with that and I think a return to older material is good.

 

Plus you can take the Deathstorm DC as one of your troop choices and have very close to an all jumper list if you really want, although I find the complaining about this curious since reading batreps and posts here has led me to believe that almost no one actually runs all jumper lists anymore.

 

Thing is while BA may not have had Assault Marines as troops in 3rd they did for 4th, 5th, 6th and all of 7th up until now; that's quite a long time to get used to having it as an option and to build up your army around it. To have it suddenly taken away leaves people sore. It's not a clear cut case of returning to roots or restoring flavour so much as it's a change in emphasis. Prior to 3rd there was no FOC which means 3rd was the only edition where Assault squads weren't troops and if you came to BA after that then those aren't your roots.

 

Also it's not just the jumper list that's gone, a lot of players will have had mech lists based on 5  man assault squads in razors due to the discount on transports granted by fielding assault marines without jump packs. That too is no longer an option. You can do it with tactical marines, sure, but it's not quite the same.

 

If you've spent 3 and a bit editions embracing assault marines as troops (I'm deliberately not focussing on the jump packs) and reading bits of fluff that justify this approach then the change is perhaps going to be jarring and difficult to accept.

 

It doesn't make anyone right or wrong, it just is what it is and some players are going to need a little spell to process.

 

 

[Blindhamster]

with Mephy having lost 2 points of init and wounds, a point of strength and toughness and an attack... yeah he's a fair bit less of a beast, he certainly wont be chomping on enemy characters in a fight most of the time, that being said if you run him with BA powers he will have:

 

Sanguine Sword - making him strength 10 and therefore the S loss is redundant

the Quickening - possibly making him have 6 attacks and init 8, which makes up for the lost attack and init

force - he had that anyway!

 

2 other powers. which could include an invulnerable save - which helps him survive, and also helps his squad, rage for EVEN MORE attacks, a few ranged powers or a movement power.

 

on top of that, there is a chance he is hitting enemies on 2s.... one of only two characters in the game capable of that! and he got adamatine will AND can join units meaning you put him somewhere safe now.

 

 

he is certainly no longer a mini primarch, and he still struggles vs 2+ save enemies, but he is no slouch and still able to be a beast.. and all that after a 75 point drop!

[L30n1d4s]

I think Mephiston, despite his apparent nerfs, may be the "dark horse" of this new codex, actually. Why, you ask? Well, point drops help, but the biggest thing is now being an Independent Character.

 

Now that he can join units, there are so many possibilities, especially given his auto-pick S10 power and his 2 rolls (plus Primaris, if he sticks to one discipline) for Psychic Powers. With Blood Angel Discipline, you really can't go wrong:

 

-Witchfire Powers (x2) -- Great S8 AP2 Beam power or decent Toughness test or die power, both useful and he can still shoot his Plasma Pistol in the shooting phase later on

 

-Malediction (x1) -- Reducing enemy morale for a LD test can be quite clutch, especially if you are dealing with low Ld enemy like Astra Militarum or Tau

 

-Blessings (x4) -- Adding a 5++ to his unit, giving them a free 12" move, giving them Rage, or giving himself +D3 attacks and initiative (always get this, since it is a Primaris) means he and his selected squad are going to be SO much more capable...

 

Imagine him attached to a squad of Death Company, all loaded into a building with an Escape Hatch (deployed 12" toward the enemy DZ) at the beginning of the game. Say Mephiston has the S10 power, the 5++ power, a Wichfire, and the Primaris for extra D3 attacks/initiative... Turn 1, disembark from the Escape Hatch 6", then run another D6", putting you between 19" and 24" accross the board from your DZ... pop the 5++ and have your unit absorb enemy shooting with their 3+/5++/FNP... turn 2, they all charge, with Mephiston giving himself +D3 initiative/attacks and S10.

 

Alternately, load him into a Drop Pod with a suicide Melta/Inferno Pistol ASM squad... Turn 1 they drop in, kill a Land Raider (or similar high value unit), then turn 2 they charge, with Mephiston taking on the biggest threat (or even taking down an entire squad all by himself while the ASM charge someone else).

[Reldn]

Y'know? I'm actually feeling good about this codex...I'm going to wait for it to be in my hands and fully readable before I truly pass judgement, but, I'm starting to feel that I'm going to like it better than the 5th edition 'dex.

 

I...I might actually go ahead and buy the 7th Ed. rulebook and try to find someone to play against sometime.

[knife&fork]

 

Also it's not just the jumper list that's gone, a lot of players will have had mech lists based on 5  man assault squads in razors due to the discount on transports granted by fielding assault marines without jump packs. That too is no longer an option. You can do it with tactical marines, sure, but it's not quite the same.

 

 

Tac squads will do the job much better though. Not quite as cheap, but far better damage output from the squad. 

 

Those 5 man razor squads were pretty much just dead meat you could throw on top of an objective for a turn. 

[sockwithaticket]

 

 

Also it's not just the jumper list that's gone, a lot of players will have had mech lists based on 5  man assault squads in razors due to the discount on transports granted by fielding assault marines without jump packs. That too is no longer an option. You can do it with tactical marines, sure, but it's not quite the same.

 

 

Tac squads will do the job much better though. Not quite as cheap, but far better damage output from the squad. 

 

Those 5 man razor squads were pretty much just dead meat you could throw on top of an objective for a turn. 

 

For most people, sure, and in game terms yeah it makes more sense in terms of cost/efficacy. But I remember seeing somewhere on the internet a Flesh Tearer army with at least three flamer-backs  and a couple of other razorbacks, with 6 assault marines in each unless they were accommodating a character. All the Flesh Tearers were lovingly converted to have aggressive poses and chain axes. I suspect those weren't being used to babysit objectives and that guy and anyone like him is probably now a little heartbroken by the changes.

[knife&fork]

Y'know? I'm actually feeling good about this codex...I'm going to wait for it to be in my hands and fully readable before I truly pass judgement, but, I'm starting to feel that I'm going to like it better than the 5th edition 'dex.

I...I might actually go ahead and buy the 7th Ed. rulebook and try to find someone to play against sometime.

Do it

It's different (and a tiny bit dull compared to ward codex) but definitely not less powerful. Very few units got worse and just about every unit is either playable or good.

The last set of leaks actually dispelled a lot of the concerns I had about putting together solid lists.

[depthcharge12]

What's the skinny on Seth? Same rules? :)

 

I look to him since my main man Tycho lost dang near all his cool rules.

 

Any differences for playing as a Flesh Tearer or other successor?

 

 

Edit: anyone else thinking about sticking Mephy in an assault terminator squad with TH/SS to tank invulns and provide ap 2?!?! :devil:

 

Bwahahahahaha

[Blindhamster]

It doesn't feel dull to me :(

 

it feels fresh and exciting!

[knife&fork]

 

 For most people, sure, and in game terms yeah it makes more sense in terms of cost/efficacy. But I remember seeing somewhere on the internet a Flesh Tearer army with at least three flamer-backs  and a couple of other razorbacks, with 6 assault marines in each unless they were accommodating a character. All the Flesh Tearers were lovingly converted to have aggressive poses and chain axes. I suspect those weren't being used to babysit objectives and that guy and anyone like him is probably now a little heartbroken by the changes.

 

It's not perfect, but those guys could still be used for podded assault squads or put in a raven if you didn't feel like doing some arm swaps to bolters and special/heavy weapons. 

 

Compared to, let's say daemon players, who've had entire armies and units made worthless by a codex change I think it's about as mild as you can expect from a codex/edition change in this hobby. 

[Zynk Kaladin]

Podded asm sound pretty good, especially if the the 2 specials in a squad of 5 dudes or more is indeed true.  Sure that gentleman loses on the razor asm, but they're arguably more effective now in pods which is probably even more fluffy, too.

[JamesI]

Podded asm sound pretty good, especially if the the 2 specials in a squad of 5 dudes or more is indeed true.  Sure that gentleman loses on the razor asm, but they're arguably more effective now in pods which is probably even more fluffy, too.

Potential for 4 guns (2 in the squad, 2 pistols on the sergeant).  Load with plasma, melta, grav, flamer to fill your need.

[tsijben]

 

He still gets the BA primaris if he takes two additional BA codex powers, right?

He would only lose the primaris if he took biomancy or the like, correct?

 

The way I understand it is like this:

You get the Primaris if you generate all your powers from the same psychic discipline.

Since his special power isn't generated at all, that means all his generated powers are from the same discipline.

That would mean you get the Primaris!

 

I believe that the power 'Force' works exactly the same, otherwise no Psyker could ever get the Primaris because they usually have Force-weapons.

Just my thoughts on it.

 

So a S10 Mephiston with 4+D3 attacks at I5+D3 ánd IC seems like a gigantic buff to him.

 

Aargh, I really want some scans to leak so I can start on Battlescribe!

Guess I have two wait two or three days, there goes my free weekend.

[Zynk Kaladin]

Podded asm sound pretty good, especially if the the 2 specials in a squad of 5 dudes or more is indeed true. Sure that gentleman loses on the razor asm, but they're arguably more effective now in pods which is probably even more fluffy, too.

Potential for 4 guns (2 in the squad, 2 pistols on the sergeant). Load with plasma, melta, grav, flamer to fill your need.

Exactly, though personally Id just do 1 pistol on the sergeant just to keep it relatively cheap. Dont forget to throw a grenade!

[Klazien]

Ive been thinking about Vanguard veterans. A lot of ifs but we can add a lot of +A +I +W FNP and not lose lose them with heroic intervention; might be a options to tie up and deal damage. Not as good as DC or SG but a different niche.

 

All the rumors sound great, with a lot of powerful synergy.

 

+1 for the best forum on the internet.

[Blindhamster]

Yeah I think VV will be best if used like faster hammernators or clawmernators.

[ElectricPaladin]

The thing is, vanguard vets need to pay for their power weapons. Do you think the points cost is going to work out so that they're still points efficient? In the old codex, they were 115 points for five. Getting them jump packs increased the cost to 165. Getting everyone just a power weapon left them as 225 points. The end result was a unit that was more expensive than sanguinary guard, and had slightly more attacks, but was less durable and had ATSKNF instead of Fearless. The only advantages they had were Heroic Intervention (gone, as we knew it would be) and that you could go all in and increase the squad size past five (at the risk of costing a ton of points, especially if you wanted to continue kitting them out, but sometimes numbers are a telling advantage).

 

Now both of those advantages are gone. Unless they get a serious points cut or some other advantage, the only use for them will be that they are Fast Attack and not Elites.

[SnorriSnorrison]

I really hope they have some other rule than the C:SM Heroic Intervention. VV could be our precision strike unit to take out nests of pesky shooty things in bloody close combat. To charge after deepstrike was the best rule for them, period.

The idea of WS, S and init 5 veterans is compelling, however. Gonna have to look at that price tag.

Snorri

[JamesI]

My issue with Vanguard is I feel that DC do what they do, better and probably cheaper.  So unless they are much cheaper, or you really want Storm Sheilds, Vanguard won't see much play.

[Blindhamster]

Vanguard will make for the best multi unit charge squad... They will also be cheaper than they were for us previously. And the sergeant can always jump into a challenge to save the day. Use them for what they're good at (multi unit charge) and I expect they will be fun. I always used mine to so exactly that in the past (MUT) so it's good to know that unlike everything else they will still get the strength, init and attack bonus!

[SamaNagol]

Spent all evening with the book. Everything I feared is true. It sucks Baals.

[ChapelXIII]

Spent all evening with the book. Everything I feared is true. It sucks Baals.

Is that good or bad?

[SnorriSnorrison]

Spent all evening with the book. Everything I feared is true. It sucks Baals.

 

Fear not brother! What is the reason for your discouragement?