Codex: Khorne, next week?

[Kastellan Kong]

Hmmm... That all sounds pretty darn super awesome! Thanks for sharing! :D

[Urauloth]

Are there seriously mandatory warp talons in this book, lmao

 

e; if people don't stop having the same av as me I'm going to flip mine or something,

[Kastellan Kong]

Are there seriously mandatory warp talons in this book, lmao

Huh? I must have missed that part. Maybe you mean possessed?

[Urauloth]

 

Are there seriously mandatory warp talons in this book, lmao

Huh? I must have missed that part. Maybe you mean possessed?

 

The raptor formation, apparently.

[Kol Saresk]

Yeah, there no mandatory Warp Talons, but there is an optional(wmphasis) formation that is made up of only Raptors and Warp Talons.

[RapatoR]

Same. Fluffwise, I can explain and see why there is no Khârn, but I still can't quite believe it.

 

Well IMO no Khârn, no updated berzerkers, noc berzerker chosen and terminators should indicate that GW is not done with Khorne...

[Dallas Drake]

Which again, is not verification. Unless there are PDF scans or photos of the pages I've missed.

 

EDIT: To explain better, what I mean by verification is that yes, the person has provided proof that they have the Codex but they haven't verified what's in it. So we're taking their word for it that what they say is in the Codex is actually what is in the Codex.

Very true. Exactly what I was thinking whilst lurking on Warseer. That picture could be anyone's hand/codex, plus a pic of a front cover of a book proves nothing.

[Khornestar]

Would sorta be an epic trolling, if he's messing with us.

[Kol Saresk]

Someone would die. I'm thinking something out of Hannibal.

To me, it just seems like things are being left out. Nothing earthshattering, but nonetheless vital.

[thraxdown]

 

 

My question is why in the first place GW is obliged to make competitive books? They are not, what they are obliged to do are rules for the new models, the lore and background to support them and a way to field them in a legit bound or Unbound list. Whether they work or not, whether they are competitive or not it is not within their remit, what it is in their remit is that a model has the rules to be played in a tabletop game. 

 

We all agree that the rules are usually driven by the demand of sales, that is true and an undeniable aspect of every business like the one GW is conducting. Yes they write rules, but nowhere it is written that the rules are written with the current tournament scene in mind. Alas the tournaments are a thing GW no longer supports and neither has an interest in, resulting in a more sandbox experience, in a more lenient ruleset, in an effort to make fluff and fluffy models and fluffy rules, that is what Daemonkin is.

 

It happens as a result of the policy described above, that some rules are better and some are bad for the "tournament scene", it results in some rules which can be abused and some combinations which are broken by fair play standards (though whose standards is the question here). 

 

I simply ask to understand that with the advent of the 6th which led into the 7th edition of the Warhammer 40k rules, GW decided to go into a more sandbox experience, where rules are considered simply a medium which allows one of their models to be played by a player. Considering that no effort from the company is given to actually calibrate the "meta" it is clear that we are in it for the fun and the lolz of playing plastic soldiers and going to a tournament is simply a competitive experience with the rules and the armies which are not devised to be competitive or "tournament friendly" in the first place. 

 

 

Yeah but the way I see it is GW should make more balanced rules not for me, but for them.  If all I want to do is play Khorne but I know if I field Khorne against Necrons I'll get destroyed then I'm not so eager to play the game.  The more enjoyable the game is (and it is enjoyable playing a close, hard fought game) the more likely I am to stick with the hobby and buy more product.  If the only faction I'm interested in playing is lucky to even keep the game close against most enemies the more likely I am to sell my army and buy a Playstation 4.

 

That being said, we could be underestimating how powerful these new rules can be.  Here's hoping it makes up for some of the drawbacks of taking this type of army.

[Shard of Magnus]

I suspect chaos codices will always be one of the more polarizing topics in 40k.

 

Personally, I'm looking forward to the release.  New background material is always welcome and the concept has inspired me more than anything recently.  I like the idea of an assault army even if the game favors a different play style.  I also like combined daemon and marine forces.  While there are summoning lists (that I dislike for reasons), and allies (usually not done at the local game store), this provides another option to achieve that type of build - it is nice to have choices even if there are drawbacks.  It will also be interesting to see what the Khorne tactical objectives are and how that helps or hurts the effectiveness/competitiveness of the army.  I know experiences vary, and that some don't use them, but the objectives have certainly changed the dynamic of how games are played and lists are built in my area.  

 

To be fair in disclosure: I was also already considering some builds that were structured very similar to the formations.  So perhaps I'm a bit biased to like what I have seen so far.  Narrative games between lists that are fun to play (and play against) are my preference these days.      

[thraxdown]

 

Which again, is not verification. Unless there are PDF scans or photos of the pages I've missed.

 

EDIT: To explain better, what I mean by verification is that yes, the person has provided proof that they have the Codex but they haven't verified what's in it. So we're taking their word for it that what they say is in the Codex is actually what is in the Codex.

Very true. Exactly what I was thinking whilst lurking on Warseer. That picture could be anyone's hand/codex, plus a pic of a front cover of a book proves nothing.

 

 

 

If you look at the guys history he often is the one of the first with a new codex.  I didn't see anything to show he was wrong about any of those codex, so I imagine what he's posting about this is pretty accurate.

[Uprising]

There has been a bit too much of venom in this thread.  Please remember this is a hobby, and many people perform this hobby for different reasons/aspects. 

 

Any way, Let see what happens.  I already have a khorne army, and will not need to purchase much to update the army. If I don't like it then I will be going back to my R&H. 

[Lagrath]

Congrats Daemnonkhin on being the only codex in the game that is limited to 1 artifact per model, thereby eliminating the one simple indulgence that might have created a handful of new, interesting, competitive units in a 120-page codex. I got the special edition and putting a guy with a cool weapon and the armor together was the one thing that actually sounded good. Guess you can still take a daemon prince with the armor and just let him fly around and punch stuff with his fist, maybe....on a Lord you can take an overpriced axe of khorne, but for that level of points any of the special axes would have made the investment much more worthwhile...

 

With friends like GW, Chaos doesn't need any enemies.

[Zhukov]

My question is why in the first place GW is obliged to make competitive books?

Do you realise that demanding a competitive book is actually about as low as demands can get? I didn't expect awesome new upgrades for a lot of units, nor new unit entries, nor interesting rules for individual units. I didn't expect as good internal balance as the Necron codex either, where every unit is worth considering. I didn't expect to have a codex with tons of different almost equally viable builds, nor a codex which will reshape the meta. But you even find it unreasonable to expect to be able to compete with a new codex? You realise that demand is achievable even by having something overpowered like the Heldrake was previous edition? Is it unreasonable to expect more than all Khorne units bundled together and giving the army 1 armywide rule? Do you even realise this codex is a supplement in disguise?

 

However, if the book contains a lot of great art and awesome (new!) fluff, then the product might still be worth it to buy, which is why I'm not writing a review yet, I'll wait for that untill I've actually digested the whole book myself.

 

 

Not sure what you mean by fanboy Zhukov. I respect you for your tactical insight. I respect nobody for being negative nancies and cry babies, who think bitching is an art-form. It's simply no use to spit out bile and bring people down about things not even released. If you don't like a product, don't buy it. Instead buy stuff you like. That's what I did with BL and CS supp. That was my vote on these. I didn't whine and complain. I won't buy that release either since it doesn't address my interest in the hobby.

I actually completely agree and this is also what I do myself in general. I've been here in this chaos forum for roughly 6 years now? I think my times of whining through the years can pretty much be counted on 2 hands. I love this hobby and I had, rightfully so, some low expectations for this release. Even those weren't met, I think I'm entitled to giving my opinion. My opinion which is never simple whining, it's always an opinion with argumentation behind it and which I believe quite some people benefit from for some years now. Don't forget people like to feel understood, when they see others feeling the same as they do, it helps them. And there is nothing wrong with getting a little big angry now and then over something stupid like miniatures.

 

Do I have to make people who are interested in a Khorne book miserable because my hopes and wishes are not fulfilled? No, I don't. What use is there in whining and complaining? None! Never changed anything and never will. GW doesn't give two :cusss about internet buzz. All you do is making this forum a worse place for people interested in the hobby. I doubt that is what you want. But then again, I don't now what it is you want.

 

Whining can help to get out frustration and share dissapointment. I whine usually in 1 thread, if at all. After that I agree it gets boring quickly, no point in bringing up the same whining again and again. What I want? Good question. In this case I want to give my opinion, nothing more. Sometimes I'm really simple.

 

And what's a fanboy? I'd like use a definition along the lines of: People who can't handle variety and choices. People who are so attached to a limited amount of things that they can't see the truth anymore and will blindly support and love the things they are attached to, just so they don't feel compelled to try something else. Fanboys suffer greatly from cognitive dissonance. I'll be honest, I can't stand fans of any kind well.

[thraxdown]

 

My question is why in the first place GW is obliged to make competitive books?

Do you realise that demanding a competitive book is actually about as low as demands can get? I didn't expect awesome new upgrades for a lot of units, nor new unit entries, nor interesting rules for individual units. I didn't expect as good internal balance as the Necron codex either, where every unit is worth considering. I didn't expect to have a codex with tons of different almost equally viable builds, nor a codex which will reshape the meta. But you even find it unreasonable to expect to be able to compete with a new codex? You realise that demand is achievable even by having something overpowered like the Heldrake was previous edition? Is it unreasonable to expect more than all Khorne units bundled together and giving the army 1 armywide rule? Do you even realise this codex is a supplement in disguise?

 

However, if the book contains a lot of great art and awesome (new!) fluff, then the product might still be worth it to buy, which is why I'm not writing a review yet, I'll wait for that untill I've actually digested the whole book myself.

 

 

Not sure what you mean by fanboy Zhukov. I respect you for your tactical insight. I respect nobody for being negative nancies and cry babies, who think bitching is an art-form. It's simply no use to spit out bile and bring people down about things not even released. If you don't like a product, don't buy it. Instead buy stuff you like. That's what I did with BL and CS supp. That was my vote on these. I didn't whine and complain. I won't buy that release either since it doesn't address my interest in the hobby.

I actually completely agree and this is also what I do myself in general. I've been here in this chaos forum for roughly 6 years now? I think my times of whining through the years can pretty much be counted on 2 hands. I love this hobby and I had, rightfully so, some low expectations for this release. Even those weren't met, I think I'm entitled to giving my opinion. My opinion which is never simple whining, it's always an opinion with argumentation behind it and which I believe quite some people benefit from for some years now. Don't forget people like to feel understood, when they see others feeling the same as they do, it helps them. And there is nothing wrong with getting a little big angry now and then over something stupid like miniatures.

 

Do I have to make people who are interested in a Khorne book miserable because my hopes and wishes are not fulfilled? No, I don't. What use is there in whining and complaining? None! Never changed anything and never will. GW doesn't give two :cusss about internet buzz. All you do is making this forum a worse place for people interested in the hobby. I doubt that is what you want. But then again, I don't now what it is you want.

 

Whining can help to get out frustration and share dissapointment. I whine usually in 1 thread, if at all. After that I agree it gets boring quickly, no point in bringing up the same whining again and again. What I want? Good question. In this case I want to give my opinion, nothing more. Sometimes I'm really simple.

 

 

I agree.  And I predict the posts trying to figure out a way to make this book work will far outweigh the posts whining about it in two weeks time.

[Dallas Drake]

Would sorta be an epic trolling, if he's messing with us.

Haha, yep. Though I learnt my lesson back with the fake BA codex when that did the rounds years ago. Call me old fashioned but I'll believe it when I see it.

 

That said, I do think that some of this codex (rules/options/etc.) could be missing, what is it supposed to be, 120 pages? Maybe...

[Lagrath]

Asking why GW is obliged to design competitive books is silly. You are in essence asking, "Why expect a company that designs games and rules for a living to demonstrate basic competence at its own job?"

 

It's an especially silly question considering how many miniatures games (and frankly, much more complicated electronic games) are extremely good at balancing extremely deep and varied armies, units, and mechanics, and are likewise very supportive of their fans and gaming events. GW is awful at all of that, despite those things being considered core competences by other games companies, because GW corporate has spent the last 5-10 years hellbent on pushing the "we can make terrible rules and balance all we want, we are a model company lololololz" mantra on its employees. This is also one of the reason they have so heavily gutted the design team and especially their internal playtesting staff (and why they no longer outsource balance playtesting to well-known international players).

[RapatoR]

Congrats Daemnonkhin on being the only codex in the game that is limited to 1 artifact per model, thereby eliminating the one simple indulgence that might have created a handful of new, interesting, competitive units in a 120-page codex.

Dude 1 artefact per model is a thing since Necron codex....

[Lagrath]

 

Congrats Daemnonkhin on being the only codex in the game that is limited to 1 artifact per model, thereby eliminating the one simple indulgence that might have created a handful of new, interesting, competitive units in a 120-page codex.

Dude 1 artefact per model is a thing since Necron codex....

 

 

So it is. I never noticed because the Voidreaper is the only one worth taking.

 

That sure is a shame- artifacts were a cool thing they introduced. Now suddenly partly through 7th they decided only 1 per model, so no more interesting combos. They can never make up their minds on anything ("Elites come before troops in the codex. But now troops before elites. But now elites first again...").

[Sception]

Currently, yes. Which is what we do have in the daemonkin supplement.

 

What Malisteen is referring to is a throwback from 3rd Edition in which there were special Terminators for each of the four mono-god lists that had special upgrades and options that could not be found outside that specific list. Which is, again, something we have not seen since 3rd Edition.

Cult terminators are terminators with the rules of the cult units - in this case berzerker terminators. Ie, WS boost, FC & Rage. Or for Plagues FNP & poison. Or for Thousand Sons rubric bullets & sorcerer champ. Or for Noise access to sonic weapons (those ones, admittedly, would require new models).

 

Ditto for characters.

 

And Cult terminators are not just a product of the excessive, abusive 3.5 codex. They existed in the first 3e book (added by white dwarf, along with cultists and options for the daemon prince, not in the codex itself) and in 2e (I forget if they were in the book or likewise added by white dwarf back then).

 

And the desire for them isn't about power, it's about not having the commanders and elite inner circle of your monogod warband not be somehow less devout followers of your god than the core troops.

[Redtoof]

 

Congrats Daemnonkhin on being the only codex in the game that is limited to 1 artifact per model, thereby eliminating the one simple indulgence that might have created a handful of new, interesting, competitive units in a 120-page codex.

 

Dude 1 artefact per model is a thing since Necron codex....

Go back further and you'll find it is like that in the Ork codex as well.

[Khornestar]

That artifacts limit is  unfortunate... Damn. So much for the armor AND sword on a single juggerlord.

[Lagrath]

 

 

Congrats Daemnonkhin on being the only codex in the game that is limited to 1 artifact per model, thereby eliminating the one simple indulgence that might have created a handful of new, interesting, competitive units in a 120-page codex.

Dude 1 artefact per model is a thing since Necron codex....

Go back further and you'll find it is like that in the Ork codex as well.

 

 

yet the Mephrit necron stuff came out later and doesn't limit you....I wish GW could stick with something.

[Zhukov]

 

So it is. I never noticed because the Voidreaper is the only one worth taking.

LOL. Solar pulse is good, 2+ save is great, teleport cape is great. This isn't a thread about Necrons though, so I'll add:

 

Once the codex has dropped I'll do my best as always to help people getting the most out of the codex gaming wise. Unless the codex is so terrible on every front that it's more pain than fun to work with it.