Slayer le Boucher Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Okey i'm less and less enthousiastic for this... Still forced to challenge but no boons... No Deamonic rewards, that will make Heralds so much mord usefull... No special rules for the Hq and Deamon engines formations, can you do even more stupid then that? Summoned Deamons enteting via DS... suddenly i don't see why anyone would like to wait a few turns to be able to summon them..., the only one you can make use right off is the Skullcanon. Overpriced wargear once again... Yup i be using this book as a standalone army once or twice, then thry will become allies for my CSM list and nothing more. Good work GDubb, real :cussing darn good work... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaeron Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 So the Daemonkin do have access to Heldrakes. Which is weird that no one has mentioned it. I did above! Just filter by Khorne Daemonkin on the website and you can see what they're going to be able to take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 So the Daemonkin do have access to Heldrakes. Which is weird that no one has mentioned it. I did above! Just filter by Khorne Daemonkin on the website and you can see what they're going to be able to take. ah, apologies. But I'm on mobile so I see the results by topic rather than post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaeron Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 So the Daemonkin do have access to Heldrakes. Which is weird that no one has mentioned it. I did above! Just filter by Khorne Daemonkin on the website and you can see what they're going to be able to take. ah, apologies. But I'm on mobile so I see the results by topic rather than post. Haha no problem bud. Even with some of the potential issues others are outlining, I'm excited. It's something I want to experiment with, anyway! I've ordered 20 Bloodletters today specially for it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornestar Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 So the Daemonkin do have access to Heldrakes. Which is weird that no one has mentioned it. Not sure what you mean, it's been mentioned multiple times in multiple places. *edit* Ah, sorry, addressed and responded to above. Over all... MAN, what a wasted opportunity. I'm still going to play the hell out of this army, and it will become my main force, but WOW. Didn't think it was possible for our stuff to get MORE expensive, and yet we get less out of it. I am trying very hard to remain positive about this, as it will still be fun and such, but it really would have killed them to put a little thought and creativity into this book, wouldn't it? The formations are one of the worst aspects of the book IMO, because you have to take some of the worst units available to the army in order to get the blood tithe bonus. If we could actually take the other components without the slaughtercult they could be worthwhile, but it would seem that is not an option. I can see myself running this army unbound more often than not, just substituting more Flesh Hounds in place of troops. What good is objective secured when just about every unit of troops is by necessity (due to points cost and to provide points for blood tithe) going to be small and underequipped? The axe that turns the bearer into a bloodthirster is essentially just a way of putting off Slay the Warlord for a turn or two, as it's only going to take a couple of wounds from shooting combined with the automatic wounds to kill it off before it can charge anything. At least my Juggerlord + Hounds + Spawn + Biker + Maulerfiend spam is still totally viable. Oh, but let's not forget the +5 points per daemon engine -- EXCEPT the Helbrute, where it actually would have been a buff, we can't have that -- that we're now forced to pay. I agree with Skull Cannons appearing to be the optimal summon. I'm very happy about this, because the 2 cannons I bought for use in WFB (which I hate) will now get some use! Unforeseen bonus. I guess axes of khorne and hope for the best against things like Wraithknights and Riptides. Since I'll largely be going unbound, CSM Juggerlord with Axe of Blind Fury and Khârn joining the fray won't really be a big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 I'm honestly not sure which possibility is worse, that it didn't occur to them to make Lords, Termis, and Possessed have Berzerker stats/rules standard, or that it did but they decided against it because of how "overpowered" that would be. Oh GW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
totgeboren Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Well, at least we can bring Soulgrinders with our CSM without daemons if we want, and it doesn't even take a HS slot. Ofcouse DoK is basically = no mark, but still. And also non-HS Maulerfiends for +5 pts can definitely be a tax worth paying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prodigal Son of Magnus Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 So Bloodthirsters not only have to spend a turn doing nothing because of deep strike but they also have to go into glide next turn? What kind of idiot designed these rules? That is, at best, a turn 3 charge. And if me or my opponent have lost 8 units in the top of turn 1 something has gone terribly wrong and the bloodthirster won't make a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted March 25, 2015 Author Share Posted March 25, 2015 nvm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhukov Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Gorepack is actually really strong I feel. Fearless Hounds with HoW? That's pretty much an amazing unit, really good value there. Among the best assault units in the game. Take 2x20 minimum, maybe more. 4 Min sized bike squads along with it? Really strong too, although a liability in KP heavy missions I guess. The Core formation is just bad. You don't want Berzerkers or CSM (squad size of 8 hurts a lot here), so that leaves some pretty useless non-OS Bloodletter squads. Add Possessed Tax onto that... blegh. Fill up with Maulers/Soul Grinders and you got yourself a slightly better CSM rush list! That's it I guess lol. Not much more too say I'm afraid. No point in summoning BT's/Daemon Princes, so that leaves summoning 5 Hounds or a skullcannon along with getting FnP. (the FnP working well on both the bikes and Hounds, which is nice) No super HQ's possible either, as the EW upgrade is way too expensive compared to the model you put it on. Maybe, just maybe on a Juggerlord... Alternatively just run a regular CAD, but there the Bloodtithe wont have much impact, in which case the benefit is being able to run Fearless Hounds with Maulers. That's okay I guess. I'm probably not even gonna bother to buy the codex as I'm not interested in running 40 stand-in Flesh Hounds. If there was an awesome plastic official model for it, then maybe I could be bothered. Frankly, this whole thing is a missed opportunity, but we all know that and I'm not going to point out the obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaeron Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 I'm actively getting stuff ready... my 'stripping box no 1' has 52 Berzerkers and two Bloodthirsters in, so this is promising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crimsonsteelcrusade Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Yeah as a former 4 years straight world eater devoty this sad but like ya said obvious o well just missed out on my dollars.Anyone else thinkin these guys are messing up like wizardsofthecoast and dnd whoopssss did I just say that.hope they dont make a pathfinder to 40k kinda thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nehekhare Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 @Nehekhare:So the Daemonkin do have access to Heldrakes. Which is weird that no one has mentioned it. yeah sure, but not as a formation on its own like the other daemon engines - which would have been nice for non-KDK-armies to ally in. blood storm is just unbearable with all those crappy jump troops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Gorepack is actually really strong I feel. Fearless Hounds with HoW? That's pretty much an amazing unit, really good value there. Among the best assault units in the game. Take 2x20 minimum, maybe more. 4 Min sized bike squads along with it? Really strong too, although a liability in KP heavy missions I guess. The Core formation is just bad. You don't want Berzerkers or CSM (squad size of 8 hurts a lot here), so that leaves some pretty useless non-OS Bloodletter squads. Add Possessed Tax onto that... blegh. Yeah, well the problem is that most Chaos Space Marine players want to play Chaos Space Marines, and not Chaos 101 Dalmations meet the Dinobots. I mean, Flesh Hounds, and Maulerfiends and all all are fine as support units, but the core of the army should have been power/terminator armored. Or at least the more anthropomorphic and characterful daemons like Heralds, Bloodletters, and the BT, and not just hordes of dogs. I'm not criticizing your tactic input of course, I'm just so tired of this from GW where say, Tau can field their iconic Fire Warriors and Crisis Suits and whatnot and do just fine, but Chaos is constantly pushed to field gimmicky spam lists of really ugly and characterless models. I mean, you'll never read a BL novel about a plucky band of Flesh Hounds and their buddy the demonic robo-velociraptor-centaur that breathes plasma. They are just mindless beatsticks, might as well play Tyranids at that point, except that Tyranids actually have some cool looking models, even if they are in the same boat as us rules wise. Edit: On a slightly more positive note, I might actually use the dogs + bikes formation since I already use meltagun bikes and Chaos Hounds would serve as Flesh Hounds well enough, plus it could allow for a "Houndmaster" conversion Chaos Lord, could be neat I suppose. Problem is I don't want to pay GW codex price for one formation. Ah well, there are ways... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 This is what I've come up with assuming the additional cost of marks and wargear is correct. I don't mind if it's not super competitive, but I'd like to think it could be both fun to play and have a chance of winning. Khorne Daemon Prince - Wings / Armour Artefact - 250 Herald of Khorne - 55 Khorne Bezerkers (8) - Pair of Lightning Claws - 192 Rhino - 35 Khorne Marines (10) - CCWs / Power Axe / Combi Melta - 205 Rhino - 35 Khorne Cultists (25) - 160 Khorne Bikers (3) - 2 meltaguns - 96 Khorne Forgefiend - 185 Khorne Maulerfiend - Lasher tendrils - 145 Khorne Hellbrute - Twin-linked Lascannon - 140 Total - 1498 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted March 26, 2015 Author Share Posted March 26, 2015 nvm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slayer le Boucher Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Its been 8 -9 months that i din't play, because i've lost all motivation. i was just waiting for a rumored khorne codex or World eaters thing, with not much conviction... i was excited when i saw the rumors about this book, but those last leaks just killed it again. Now i'm terrified of what a eventual futur World eaters codex would end up looking like, i'm so afraid of it, that i simply don't want to see it becoming real. Please GW, stop, stop the bleeding, make CSM something like a NPC race, and leave it alone, its depressing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thraxdown Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 If you're running the main formation, I think +1 attack + FNP will be the go to blood target. Summoning just seems underwhelming. That's what I've been thinking as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uprising Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Not worth the $50, I guess that will be going to mantic for my rapier conversion. This release has made me so disappointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornestar Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Possessed are 4pts/model more expensive than in Codex: Chaos Space Marines. This takes into account the cost of the Mark of Khorne (3pts/model for Possessed) and the Demon of Khorne (apparently priced at 1pt/model for Possessed) rules. Minimum squad is 5 for 150pts. A regular CAD is a regular CAD... same as the Base Rule Book. The only Detachment in the Demonkin book is the Blood Host (Decurion Style thing) and the 5 Formations that can either be included in the Blood Host or separately like any other formation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadman Wade Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Well, I say that's laziness level over9000. GW had a perfect opportunity to make all World Eaters and Khorne players in general happy, but somehow managed to make overpriced units MORE EXPENSIVE without improving them, while making Flesh Hounds even better than they were in Daemons codex. And adding cult terminators and lords and reducing some units point costs isn't that hard (or is it? :D) I mean, if all this book does is screaming "Buy our new Bloodthirster", then GW could just make a dataslate. I guess I'll never understand GW's logic :D But I think that this codex should be better than Khorne themed army of CSM and Daemons from separate books. Bikers and Hounds formation with some buffs like FNP and +1 attack looks nice. Also, still no dedicated Land Raiders for Berzerkers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thraxdown Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 If they wanted us to buy bloodthirsters they could have made bloodthirsters decent. But they didn't do that, they made them even more garbage by not allowing any rewards or artefacts to be taken by them. I don't understand their logic either, why they would release a product like this is beyond me. Do they not want my money? I really don't get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagrath Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 So Maulerfiends get Daemon of X now?This is terrifying, because it means that if they come out with a Nurgle book, my Nurglefiend conversions will be both more expensive (at least 10 points I bet) and a lot worse. Maulerfiends without a run (which you can re-roll with fleet) and without the ability to run down and wipe out units in combat will suck. Centurion stars and Tau shooting already ignore cover, anyway. I love that Nurgle is the ONLY diety whose special rule comes with a major, major handicap. I guess at least it will make shooting alpha-strike armies from other codexes easier to tank if you don't get first turn...Tzeentchfiends will be great...get in ranged of horrors or screamers with Cursed Earth, then enjoy your 4++ with re-roll 1s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 This is where I'm confused. What are the new units? no new units. you can't even use the special non stock BT. What? Am I misunderstanding you, or are you under the impression we can't take any of the 3 new Bloodthirsters? You can summon only the basic one. Also do people notice how the new codex follows the already existing battle boxs, with its rules? Starter set=> expansion set+demon starter or for the veterans who already have the starter and CS expansion set, the big khorn army deal[with even more possessed]. But three things bother me a bit. First, why isn't anyone talking about forging more narrative with the book?Second, why aren't other faction sub forums talking about our dudes[well beside the SW one when they lol how chaos needs 3 books to get an inferior version of what SW do with 1]. And third is the fluff. Not enough of it for such a large book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 “THE BLOOD TITHE Khorne Daemonkin armies enjoy a new special rule called the Blood Tithe (see page 20 for more on this). In essence, the more violence you cause (and the more casualties you take), the more options you have for summoning Daemons of Khorne to the battlefield, including Bloodletters, Flesh Hounds, Skull Cannons, Bloodcrushers or even a Bloodthirster of Unfettered Rage. If you’re planning to field a Khorne Daemonkin army, it’s worth painting a few of these units in anticipation of the carnage to come. We’ve found it particularly entertaining to line them up at the edge of the battlefield, the threat of summoning never far away.” Excerpt From: Dwarf, White. “White Dwarf Issue 60: 21st March 2015.” iBooks. This material may be protected by copyright. Check out this book on the iBooks Store: https://itun.es/us/o81s6.l That's from the White Dwarf. Just to emphasize, a Bloodthirster of Unfettered Rage is one of the three new Bloodthirsters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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