Codex: Khorne, next week?

[Scribe]

Even the potential for something good to come out of this for my boxed up CSM/Daemons is worth me waking up for, I'm interested either way!

[Trevak Dal]

 

 

because as soon as that happens people moan and belittle you for playing/collecting it

In the last 11 years of playing chaos and nids, I found out that [and this was after playing EC whole 5th ed and nids in 6th at all] it is better to get a an OP codex with a ton of options and have fun with it for 2-3 years, then get suck dex and have little to no fun. The high horse of being better then others, because I play something different/harder to play/etc died for me at the end of 5th.

 

 

As a Tau player-I'll drink to that sir.

[Kol Saresk]

Hmm, so going through the White Dwarf, the direct purpose is that the idea is to either create a core of shock daemon troops that use the damage they inflict to summon more daemons, or a CSM/Berzerker core than moves behind a shield of sacrificial Cultists.

 

So the idea of using Cultists seems to be on the right track, even suggested. But I still think only using them in groups of ten is....... "redundant" is the word that springs to mind but it doesn't quite describe what I want to say. The Cultists should have increased numbers. That way they can take enough damage to possibly tie up any shooting units while the Berzerkers and everything else slam in from behind while the enemy is tied up with the Cultists in CC. Maybe use Flesh Hounds or Bloodcrushers to augment the cannon fodder?

[Kol Saresk]

 

Currently, yes. Which is what we do have in the daemonkin supplement.

 

What Malisteen is referring to is a throwback from 3rd Edition in which there were special Terminators for each of the four mono-god lists that had special upgrades and options that could not be found outside that specific list. Which is, again, something we have not seen since 3rd Edition.

Cult terminators are terminators with the rules of the cult units - in this case berzerker terminators. Ie, WS boost, FC & Rage. Or for Plagues FNP & poison. Or for Thousand Sons rubric bullets & sorcerer champ. Or for Noise access to sonic weapons (those ones, admittedly, would require new models).

 

Ditto for characters.

 

And Cult terminators are not just a product of the excessive, abusive 3.5 codex. They existed in the first 3e book (added by white dwarf, along with cultists and options for the daemon prince, not in the codex itself) and in 2e (I forget if they were in the book or likewise added by white dwarf back then).

 

And the desire for them isn't about power, it's about not having the commanders and elite inner circle of your monogod warband not be somehow less devout followers of your god than the core troops.

........... Okaaaaaaay, the discussion on power does nothing to change the fact we haven't seen them since 3rd edition, which is all I said.........

[Scribe]

Until Terminators get a new box, same with Berzerkers, I have long long given up hope on rules adjustments. Frankly, we are lucky to even get Marks.

 

As for Khârn, farewell sweet Prince...I fully expect him to go the way of WHF Characters if he's not in this book, which would be THE most appropriate book for him to be in.

 

Edit: That little a in Khârn was autocorrected? Nice one BnC. :p

[thraxdown]

Fleshhounds for sure.  Already the best Khorne unit in the daemon dex, it will likely be the best in daemonkin as well. 

[Slayer le Boucher]

 

you could always convert bezerkers on juggernaughts and just use the bloodcrusher rules? that is what I'm thinking of doing using the fantasy skullcrusher models. not sure how good bloodcrushers are though. and yeah I do find this thread negative, I'm looking at it as a fun opportunity for an entertaining if not that powerful force.

 

Skullcrushers are mortals (in the wishlist, berzerkers) on juggernauts.

 

Bloodcrushers are bloodletters on juggernauts, which is what we have in this codex.

Ah. Did we ever access to those in 40k?

sadly not.

Huh. Can't say I'm surprised we didn't get something we've never had accessed to but I am surprised at the wishlisting for it.

 

Huuuh...

 

What about Whole squads of Khorne chosen on juggers?, Zerkers Champ on jUggers and even freakin Deamon Princes on Juggers?...

 

In 3rd we had those, of course back at the time Juggers wern't cavalery because they where deemed to heavy to be faster then infantry( but you had MC's and stuff 5 times bigger then them that could fly or move twice has fast...)

 

Thats why people wants Zerkers on Juggers, and that people are pissed that those Space Mutts got it.

 

Hmm, so going through the White Dwarf, the direct purpose is that the idea is to either create a core of shock daemon troops that use the damage they inflict to summon more daemons, or a CSM/Berzerker core than moves behind a shield of sacrificial Cultists.

 

So the idea of using Cultists seems to be on the right track, even suggested. But I still think only using them in groups of ten is....... "redundant" is the word that springs to mind but it doesn't quite describe what I want to say. The Cultists should have increased numbers. That way they can take enough damage to possibly tie up any shooting units while the Berzerkers and everything else slam in from behind while the enemy is tied up with the Cultists in CC. Maybe use Flesh Hounds or Bloodcrushers to augment the cannon fodder?

 

What cultists really needed, and it baffles me that they don't have it, is infiltrator or scout, i mean Cultists are the guys that stay under the radar or hidden until a CSM/Deamon invasion come for the party, then they go to the party with them...

 

Infiltrator would have helped to make them more usefull then simple fodder, or even has fodder i guess.

[Lagrath]

Fleshhounds for sure.  Already the best Khorne unit in the daemon dex, it will likely be the best in daemonkin as well. 

 

Especially since you can now scout a Juggerlord with them.

[Emperor's Furor]

Dug out more of my old stuff, have 11-15 Bezerkers in bits as well. I think I'm going to go with a wave of 60 cultists followed by the bezerkers supported by a maulerfiend, forgefiend, and hellbrute with an aspiring champion in a rhino with some khorne marines, flanked by three bikers with some meltaguns to pop vehicles. Perhaps a winged daemon prince and maybe 10 bloodletters if I can fit them in. I don't have many daemons atm, have a bloodthirster but gonna leave him out of list so I can perhaps summon him. Dunno how many points this will be yet though until I get the new codex.

[Trevak Dal]

 

Skullcrushers are mortals (in the wishlist, berzerkers) on juggernauts.

 

Bloodcrushers are bloodletters on juggernauts, which is what we have in this codex.

Ah. Did we ever access to those in 40k?

 

 

I think in the Codex of the Holiest Holies you could give Chosen (Which were also your Terminators) the option of having Juggernaut mounts-or any other Daemon Mount.

But that seems like it would be horrifically overpriced.  That said having multiple JuggerLords is pretty damn awesome.

[RapatoR]

Hmm, so going through the White Dwarf, the direct purpose is that the idea is to either create a core of shock daemon troops that use the damage they inflict to summon more daemons, or a CSM/Berzerker core than moves behind a shield of sacrificial Cultists.

 

So the idea of using Cultists seems to be on the right track, even suggested. But I still think only using them in groups of ten is....... "redundant" is the word that springs to mind but it doesn't quite describe what I want to say. The Cultists should have increased numbers. That way they can take enough damage to possibly tie up any shooting units while the Berzerkers and everything else slam in from behind while the enemy is tied up with the Cultists in CC. Maybe use Flesh Hounds or Bloodcrushers to augment the cannon fodder?

 

When I was toying with idea of Khornate army, I was planning to have "waves" in my army. First wave would include very fast units such as Bikes/Fleshounds/other fast moving (or infiltrating/scouting) units. Second wave would include deep striking units or units with jump packs/fleet. Third wave would be the rest of the guys. The first and second wave would serve as a kind of "fire magnets" by threatening to tie enemy units early, while providing time for zerkers to disembark from rhinos and to get to CC. However I never tested it so I have no idea if it is even workable.

[Rain]

I think in the Codex of the Holiest Holies you could give Chosen (Which were also your Terminators) the option of having Juggernaut mounts-or any other Daemon Mount.

But that seems like it would be horrifically overpriced. That said having multiple JuggerLords is pretty damn awesome.

Yep. You could upgrade all Chosen in a given squad to Aspiring Champions which would give them access to the armory, which included juggers. I once did this to make an infiltrating, Initiative 5, fleet of foot, power weapon factory that clocked in at something like 800 points. It was of course relatively easily countered, but it was still fun when you got the charge off.

I love that GW has actually convinced some Chaos players that 3.5 was "abusive" and "over the top" while pushing out nonsense like the Decurian and other Necron detachments. It's like a beaten wife running to apologize to her husband for overcooking the meatloaf again.

[Scribe]

Waves finally make some sense if this all pans out. Before it was 'yeah we all die for Khorne...but I lose' if this works out as it seems to be intending, your guys getting the axe will actually empower those that remain and let them push through for enough damage.

 

If its all just a hope in my bloodshot eye at this point, thats fine. If it works out that way though, and it gives Khorne enough push to finish things off, I'm excited.

[Zhukov]

Regarding cultists: If the rumours are correct, you automaticly pay for the Mark of Khorne for them. Fluffy right? Very. Also 70 points for 10 cultists, 130 points for 20 cultists. Yes, you can buy 30 unmarked for 130 points. Yes that's terrible.

 

I'll add something positive: Running Berzerkers without having to field a Chaos Lord.

[Emperor's Furor]

I really want the book so I can work out the points. For what I'm planning I'm not sure if they will fit in 1.5k. Don't know if it's even good, but it's what I have atm. Idea is to present so many targets they can't possible deal with them all before something hits their lines and causes havoc.

 

2 units of 30 Cultists

15 Berzerkers

9 Khorne Marines in Rhino with Aspiring Champion

3 Bikers with two meltaguns

Maulerfiend

Forgefiend

Hellbrute with twin linked Lascannon

Winged Daemon Prince (thinking of having him just jump about from the start)

10 Bloodletters (to deep strike in on second turn to take some fire)

[ThatOneMarshal]

About 90% of the things on your list probably cost the same as the current codex just add the mark of khorne and your good.

[incinerator950]

Long story short.

Did you play Khorne before, purely because you loved the fluff and the army?

Come do the happy skully killy dance with me.

Did you hope this book would fix chaos as a whole/win you a tournament? Sorry, but it was never meant to be want you wanted.

MonoKhorne Black Legion was right up with Iron Warriors and demonbombing in 4th.

[Emperor's Furor]

Ah k, I'm going on 1800 points and thats without proper wargear selection on characters. Gonna drop the marines and the bloodletters, guess I could summon them if I really need them, although that'll lower the chance of summoning the bloodthirster. Turn the Berzerkers into 9 strong and put them in the rhino with a chaos lord. 30 cultists without any upgrades comes in at 190 points though and I'm having two big units of them.

 

Is there anyway to stiffen cultists up so they don't suddenly decide to leg it after sustained fire?

[UlsanGamer]

Is there anyway to stiffen cultists up so they don't suddenly decide to leg it after sustained fire?

Helcult

Pros: gain fearless cultists

No need for Mark of khorne

Helbrute still gets rage

 

Cons: don't add blood points when they die (but since you were taking thirty anyway it would have been late game before they all died anyway) and not objective secured.

 

The helcult is really good with large units of cultists.

[Sheesh Mode]

 

Long story short.

Did you play Khorne before, purely because you loved the fluff and the army?

Come do the happy skully killy dance with me.

Did you hope this book would fix chaos as a whole/win you a tournament? Sorry, but it was never meant to be want you wanted.

MonoKhorne Black Legion was right up with Iron Warriors and demonbombing in 4th.

 

 

I first started playing 40k back in 4th, that must relate to why I love running Black Legion so much now. 

 

That and kicking faces in. 

[Kol Saresk]

Question, has it been mentioned that apparently you can only hold a maximum eight Blood Tithe points at a time?

[thraxdown]

Question, has it been mentioned that apparently you can only hold a maximum eight Blood Tithe points at a time?

It's said once you use blood points the count goes down to zero. So if you have 5 and want to get +1 attack you can't use the remainder to get adamantium will, you have to start back over.

 

 

Edit: what I thought you wrote and what you actually wrote are two different things. I know it was mentioned in the warseer thread but don't know if it's been mentioned here.

[Rain]

So, this is basically just a supplement then. No new units introduced (except the new Bloodthirsters which have are also being given to Codex: Daemons via White Dwarf as I understand it), not even "new" options for existing units like actual Berzerker Terminators or any Chosen for whatever reason or jugger riders because they don't have their own models even though they are a very simple conversion, and jugger riding lords are thankfully already a thing. Just a bunch of new artifacts, an armywide special rule, and throwing a bunch of existing units into the same codex with several mostly useless formations, along with a decent primary formation that requires Possessed because GW has to push boxes of crappy units.

 

On the other hand, it is nice to finally have Chaos Marine and Daemon units in the same codex again, and it would be nice if each Chaos cult got its own book leaving the vanilla Codex Chaos Space Marines for undivided armies with the most tactical flexibility as well as veteran skills of some type. Though knowing GW that will just involve the removal of cult units from vanilla CSM without any buffs to unaligned units to compensate.

[Kol Saresk]

 

Question, has it been mentioned that apparently you can only hold a maximum eight Blood Tithe points at a time?

It's said once you use blood points the count goes down to zero. So if you have 5 and want to get +1 attack you can't use the remainder to get adamantium will, you have to start back over.

 

 

Edit: what I thought you wrote and what you actually wrote are two different things. I know it was mentioned in the warseer thread but don't know if it's been mentioned here.

Not entirely true though. I don't know the specifics of how it works, but apparently one of the formations will allow you to get two (presumably same price or less) Blood Tithe rewards, but you can only have 8 points maximum at any one time.

[the jeske]

the problem with the khorn "decurion" that it limits the number of cultists[well for those people that may want to use cultists with this book].

 

 

On the other hand, it is nice to finally have Chaos Marine and Daemon units in the same codex again, and it would be nice if each Chaos cult got its own book leaving the vanilla Codex Chaos Space Marines for undivided armies with the most tactical flexibility as well as veteran skills of some type.

 

I strongly advise those, who play in small groups to make their own codex"tzeench/slan/nurg" with token systems mirrioring the khorn one. Much more fun. Actualy makes 1ksosn viable and fun to play [which for me is mind blowing, because they have been bad or unplayable since 2ed].

 

MonoKhorne Black Legion was right up with Iron Warriors and demonbombing in 4th.

 

So true. for me BL khorn was the best army [at 1500] that came out of 3.5 dex.

 

However I never tested it so I have no idea if it is even workable

 

 

you would have to play 2k+ and never play against shoty fast moving armies. Eldar or necron or nids could wipe out whole waves in a single turn, while denying you charges. worse the units that you would get back after 2 turns would be dead too fast to impact the game. while saving up points for the DP/BT would mean crippling your army to a point where ploping a BT would not help[even if it were one of the FW ones].

 

 

Too add more new chaos codex happy thoughts Z-man wrote. You can not only take zerkers without a lord, but you can take bikers and csm without a lord also. and play something like heralds+dogs+csm rhino minimax for melee and anti tank with anti horde/anti meq being done by wyverns.