Adra'Melek Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 @Teetengee, Slaughtercult is a formation and forms the mandatory part of the Blood Host detachment. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305221-khorne-daemonkin-discussion-tactics-background/page/10/#findComment-3994759 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teetengee Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Ok, so you can go unbound and bring a land raider and still get the Slaughtercult bonuses, but you won't get the Blood Host bonuses on anything. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305221-khorne-daemonkin-discussion-tactics-background/page/10/#findComment-3994860 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap'm Heckus Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 You might as well make it an unbound army and just bring a Land Raider, IMO. You didn't have objective secured on those troops in the Slaughtercult, and it's not like you're spamming Riptides or something. But if he goes unbound then he loses the bonuses for both the formation and CAD. Why not go with a straight CAD army, take up to 3 landraiders with zerkers if he wants and have obsec to boot? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305221-khorne-daemonkin-discussion-tactics-background/page/10/#findComment-3994872 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teetengee Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 You might as well make it an unbound army and just bring a Land Raider, IMO. You didn't have objective secured on those troops in the Slaughtercult, and it's not like you're spamming Riptides or something. But if he goes unbound then he loses the bonuses for both the formation and CAD. Why not go with a straight CAD army, take up to 3 landraiders with zerkers if he wants and have obsec to boot? He doesn't lose the benefit of the Slaughtercult formation in unbound. Only the Blood Host detachment bonuses. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305221-khorne-daemonkin-discussion-tactics-background/page/10/#findComment-3994878 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornestar Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 I didn't realize going unbound would negate the Blood Host bonus. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305221-khorne-daemonkin-discussion-tactics-background/page/10/#findComment-3994910 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teetengee Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Since it is just a detachment and not a formation you lose the bonuses. Only formations retain bonuses in an unbound army. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305221-khorne-daemonkin-discussion-tactics-background/page/10/#findComment-3994915 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornestar Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Ah well. That would suck, then. The free blood point is pretty sick. Perhaps not totally necessary, but not having it could gimp the list. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305221-khorne-daemonkin-discussion-tactics-background/page/10/#findComment-3994939 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurfalypse Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 I keep trying to write up lists from this Codex and I just keep failing at it, the more and more I do stuff with it the more and more I dislike it. From a competitive standpoint you give up A LOT to delve into this book and what you gain can be pretty poor. Cultists - More points for 8 than 10 from normal CSM Codex. Maulerfriends - I am one of the few who swears by the MFs but I have to tell ya. . . They went up in points and all you gain is Furious Charge (Daemon of Khorne) for those str10 attacks, super super poorly thought out by Devs. Like no excuse on this one, shows they just Copy/Pasted and then added the Daemon Of/Mark cost to everything. Heralds cannot take an Axe of Khorne. Huh? So base Daemons he can take one for 10pts, but this Codex it is not acceptable at 30pts? I keep trying to write a list and ally in Daemons for some Heralds and Warp Charge and such, but I end up missing out on too much and keep tossing it away. Really odd cause I love the brutishness of a lot of the units. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305221-khorne-daemonkin-discussion-tactics-background/page/10/#findComment-3995031 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Doctor Of War Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 I keep trying to write up lists from this Codex and I just keep failing at it, the more and more I do stuff with it the more and more I dislike it. From a competitive standpoint you give up A LOT to delve into this book and what you gain can be pretty poor. Cultists - More points for 8 than 10 from normal CSM Codex. Maulerfriends - I am one of the few who swears by the MFs but I have to tell ya. . . They went up in points and all you gain is Furious Charge (Daemon of Khorne) for those str10 attacks, super super poorly thought out by Devs. Like no excuse on this one, shows they just Copy/Pasted and then added the Daemon Of/Mark cost to everything. Heralds cannot take an Axe of Khorne. Huh? So base Daemons he can take one for 10pts, but this Codex it is not acceptable at 30pts? I keep trying to write a list and ally in Daemons for some Heralds and Warp Charge and such, but I end up missing out on too much and keep tossing it away. Really odd cause I love the brutishness of a lot of the units. To be honest the main reason i like the Daemonkin list is my World Eaters die by the bucketload when i play anyway, at least with this codex i get a bit of a reward for it :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305221-khorne-daemonkin-discussion-tactics-background/page/10/#findComment-3995061 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Heralds actually seem really limited. Loci bubbles and thats about it? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305221-khorne-daemonkin-discussion-tactics-background/page/10/#findComment-3995080 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teetengee Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Did warp talons gain the daemon of khorne rule? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305221-khorne-daemonkin-discussion-tactics-background/page/10/#findComment-3995109 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornestar Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Did warp talons gain the daemon of khorne rule? Yup! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305221-khorne-daemonkin-discussion-tactics-background/page/10/#findComment-3995115 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 I really need to get some games in with this, hopefully this weekend. My hope is that the Tithe 4/3 buff is enough to turn games on, meaning getting your guys in place for a meaningful charge and getting the extra attack/FNP will be enough to then power you into another set, and hopefully close out the game. Not sure it will work out that way, but thats the intent I think. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305221-khorne-daemonkin-discussion-tactics-background/page/10/#findComment-3995136 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teetengee Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Did warp talons gain the daemon of khorne rule? Yup! So they are now daemon and mark of khorne in that dex? Do they cost a lot more than before? If not, I might be able to find space for a unit of 5 to really tear apart meq. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305221-khorne-daemonkin-discussion-tactics-background/page/10/#findComment-3995154 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurfalypse Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 I really need to get some games in with this, hopefully this weekend. My hope is that the Tithe 4/3 buff is enough to turn games on, meaning getting your guys in place for a meaningful charge and getting the extra attack/FNP will be enough to then power you into another set, and hopefully close out the game. Not sure it will work out that way, but thats the intent I think. I think a Rage turn 2 for the guys that do not have it is pretty solid if you know you are going to be charging. Hounds and such. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305221-khorne-daemonkin-discussion-tactics-background/page/10/#findComment-3995155 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurfalypse Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Did warp talons gain the daemon of khorne rule? Yup! So they are now daemon and mark of khorne in that dex? Do they cost a lot more than before? If not, I might be able to find space for a unit of 5 to really tear apart meq. Yeah, they cost a few more points per model. Basically everything that could have a Mark that did not have one costs more. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305221-khorne-daemonkin-discussion-tactics-background/page/10/#findComment-3995159 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 So they are now daemon and mark of khorne in that dex? Do they cost a lot more than before? If not, I might be able to find space for a unit of 5 to really tear apart meq. They cost one point more than talons w mok, but keep in mind thay mok is rather painfully overpriced on them to begin with, and they still lack grenades or reliable damage against vehicles or 2+ saves. Yeah, they shred marines, if they don' die first to bolter fire, overwatch, and striking last due to difficult terrain. But did you really need a crazy expensive, super fragile specialist unit to hunt tacticals? Dogs with a jugger lord also shred marines, and they're way more durable. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305221-khorne-daemonkin-discussion-tactics-background/page/10/#findComment-3995167 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slayer le Boucher Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Got my Gaming T-Shirt in the mail yesterday.http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/538/SV1p3W.jpgAlso finnaly got my LE book!!!http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/540/9gHWn8.jpgsadly its only the copy number 220, woumd have hopped for 888, oh well.The Case wich contains the book is nice, with a nice feeling to the touch and nicely done artworks, front is the codex artwork, back its the Terminator Lord artwork you can find in the codex.http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/913/E9tRxb.jpgYou have the Book in it self, with an Herald on jugger on the cover, and the thing with Khârn on it is the case that contains the goodies just like you can see on GW site.http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/540/U5W3po.jpgThe Cards with the specific KDK objectives, i was a bit dissapointed that there was no Blood Tithe cards like there is Psy Powers cards, but hey.http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/673/cKdWAE.jpgThe Skulls and Coins are made in a good quelity pewter with a used and aged brass look.They have quite a good feel in the hand, they have some weight, wich make it really enjoyable and they have a nice tint when they roll on the table.Would have personnaly liked to have some proper box or container for the coins and skulls, like an miniature altar in wich you could fit all the skulls and coins, also the box for the cards is made of some thick carton, wich is nice, but i don't think it would withstand pronlonged use. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305221-khorne-daemonkin-discussion-tactics-background/page/10/#findComment-3995173 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 I'm envious. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305221-khorne-daemonkin-discussion-tactics-background/page/10/#findComment-3995346 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 I keep trying to write up lists from this Codex and I just keep failing at it, the more and more I do stuff with it the more and more I dislike it. From a competitive standpoint you give up A LOT to delve into this book and what you gain can be pretty poor. Cultists - More points for 8 than 10 from normal CSM Codex. Maulerfriends - I am one of the few who swears by the MFs but I have to tell ya. . . They went up in points and all you gain is Furious Charge (Daemon of Khorne) for those str10 attacks, super super poorly thought out by Devs. Like no excuse on this one, shows they just Copy/Pasted and then added the Daemon Of/Mark cost to everything. Heralds cannot take an Axe of Khorne. Huh? So base Daemons he can take one for 10pts, but this Codex it is not acceptable at 30pts? I keep trying to write a list and ally in Daemons for some Heralds and Warp Charge and such, but I end up missing out on too much and keep tossing it away. Really odd cause I love the brutishness of a lot of the units. I think the issue is going to hinge upon if maxing out the Slaughtercult is worth it or not. It really ties your hands due to the high cost of the units you want to put in here to maximize it, and at the points levels I play at, its tough to do without really skewing your army one way or the other. For example another at 1750. Slaughtercult Chaos Lord, Juggernaught, Axe of Khorne, The Blood-forged Armour, Meltabomb 7 Possessed 10 CSM, 2 x Melta, Rhino 8 Berzerkers, Rhino x 2 CAD Chaos Lord, Blade of Endless Bloodshed, Sigil (with Possessed) 8 Cultists x 2 15 Flesh Hounds Landraider (Possessed go here) Tough to make it work I'm finding as this would eat up...infantry? It would fold hard to high toughness things if people in your meta are rocking several Riptides, Knights, ect, would fold to daemons or nids MC's, and would struggle to catch anyone running away. I dont think it's gonna fly. Thankfully I enjoy playing with writing lists. :] EDIT: So the units that where not great before, continue to not be great. Can Blood Tithe make up the difference is the question to me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305221-khorne-daemonkin-discussion-tactics-background/page/10/#findComment-3995368 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadman Wade Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Ok, I want to clarify this: I use Blood Host detachment with allied CSM, I take a squad of 8 Slaughtercult Berzerkers and put them into allied Land Raider with Khârn. When Khârn kills enemy unit (not in a challenge) while attached to berzerkers, I get a blood tithe point. When I expend blood tithe points to take Apocalyptic Fury, Berzerkers and Khârn get +1 attack and FNP. And can Khârn be my warlord in this army? If I attach Juggerlord from CSM codex to Gorepack hounds and expend blood tithe points for Apocalyptic Fury, Lord and hounds get +1 attack, but no FNP. Am I right? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305221-khorne-daemonkin-discussion-tactics-background/page/10/#findComment-3995388 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Khârn isnt going to get the +1 Attack, or any Benefit, and if Khârn kills a unit in a challenge, he's not getting you a Tithe either as he doesnt have Blood for the Blood God. Khârn, as an Allied Unit, can also not be your Warlord. The Gorepack, being outside Slaughtercult, do not get the secondary bonus, but the Lord does not get anything. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305221-khorne-daemonkin-discussion-tactics-background/page/10/#findComment-3995393 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadman Wade Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Ah, ok, I thought that when allied HQs join main detachment squads, they count as a part of this unit. I guess I'll stick to main CSM book then. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305221-khorne-daemonkin-discussion-tactics-background/page/10/#findComment-3995395 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 So took the dog (not a Flesh Hound) out for his last walk of the night and was thinking on Wades questions, and looked at the table again. Forgive this info that you can all access, I am just thinking this out as I type. Daemons have Furious Charge (FC/Rage Reward 2) MoK has Rage/Counter Attack (FC/Rage, Reward 2) FNP is 3 +1 Attack is 4 Slaughtercult allows for the extra Reward, and Blood Host Detachment generates you a point at the start of each turn, including the first and is BEFORE you choose to use the Reward, allowing for a 100% ability to fire off Reward 2 if you have the chance for a T2 charge. I'd overlooked that Blood Host bonus, its enough to push me to drop the idea of the Endless Bloodshed sword completely, so maybe I dont even need a CAD for a second Lord, I could go for a Prince from the Cohort, and give it Goredrinker to bypass unwieldy? Not ideal, but Heralds are pretty lame I think. A Juggerlord w/Flesh Hounds is likely a default staple for my lists as I love my Juggerlords, and picked up a bunch of Flesh Hounds proxy models that are wicked...and they can do good good work. The issue I have left really is what to do with the possessed tax. :] Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305221-khorne-daemonkin-discussion-tactics-background/page/10/#findComment-3995411 Share on other sites More sharing options...
totgeboren Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 @totgeboren, only 1/6 Dark Channelling is possessed (Daemon), isn't it? Otherwise it's things like Zeolot and Furious Change (going off memory). So 1/6 of some units in the Word Bearers army are possessed (on top of the Elite Gal Vorbak) What I ment was that the CS are all semi-possessed, where some can become full out possessed at any given time (hence Possessed as Troops), while the rest get Fear to account for the background. WB in the FW rules can be given Dark Channelling, which makes them "Possessed light" as I said. They get one only a part of the full on Possession rules. Daemon is one part, but basic Possessed have S5, which is one result, and they are fearless too, which is part of the Zealot rule. They are still semi-possessed, even if you don't roll a 6 on the table. Perhaps off topic, but yeah. All in all I am not convinced the Daemonkin codex is a better representation of a WE warband than the basic codex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305221-khorne-daemonkin-discussion-tactics-background/page/10/#findComment-3995420 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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