Khornestar Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 As was already discussed, here is the resolution to Karanak: Hello Alex, Thank you for writing in to us. Karanak is not present in the Khorne Daemonkin Codex; you are correct about that. The web listing Karanak amongst that army entry on the webstore appears to possibly be in error, and we have submitted a note about this to the Web Team to address. Thank you again for bringing this to our attention, and please let us know should you have any other questions. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305221-khorne-daemonkin-discussion-tactics-background/page/6/#findComment-3992290 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adra'Melek Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 If anything I think it's trying to move away from Khorne marines = World Eaters. Edit: oh and I went to the cinema on the release day for the Khorne book. My assigned see was H8...it's fate (and Second Son went on to make me so angry) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305221-khorne-daemonkin-discussion-tactics-background/page/6/#findComment-3992291 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Khorne marines may not just be world eaters, but world eaters certaimly are khorne marines, and leaving them and Khârn out here is poor form. It's one thing not to lock people into particular army themes, but it's going too far to try to lock people out of them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305221-khorne-daemonkin-discussion-tactics-background/page/6/#findComment-3992353 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornestar Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Khorne marines may not just be world eaters, but world eaters certaimly are khorne marines, and leaving them and Khârn out here is poor form. It's one thing not to lock people into particular army themes, but it's hoing too dar to try to lock people out of them. I agree. Someone could just opt not to use any daemons whatsoever, and only use the buffs from the blood tithe table to represent that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305221-khorne-daemonkin-discussion-tactics-background/page/6/#findComment-3992354 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 But guys! Brazen slaughter cults of insensate blood rage are so much more interesting and thematic than World Eaters! I mean come on, look at how many times they use the words blood and rage, they are obviously really trying to create compelling new fluff. Now no one will mistake your army for even tempered skin worshippers. Oh no, they are indeed quite angry, and blood is the only part of the body they are interested in. Besides, World Eaters were developed by Andy Chambers and Pete Haines, and they don't even work for GW anymore. Wouldn't you rather have the awesome people that created the Heldrake? Come on it's a DRAGON, just like the ones Khaleesi has, and um, Smaug, and those movies made lots of money, so they must be good. That's called market research kids, and GW is great at it. That's why there are so many pretty pictures and so little boring text. Reading is for nerds! Blood! Brazen! Gore! Slaughter! Arranged in any number of creative ways. Original stuff, thanks Gee Dub. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305221-khorne-daemonkin-discussion-tactics-background/page/6/#findComment-3992369 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Doctor Of War Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Khorne marines may not just be world eaters, but world eaters certaimly are khorne marines, and leaving them and Khârn out here is poor form. It's one thing not to lock people into particular army themes, but it's hoing too dar to try to lock people out of them. The World Eaters are mentioned in the Codex, but just like with the regular Chaos Space Marine book, the focus is again on the more recent renegades rather than the Legions.While it struck me as odd at first, Khârn exclusion does make sense. These guys are the religious fanatics who worship the Daemons of Khorne. Khârn doesn't strike me as the type to worship anyone. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305221-khorne-daemonkin-discussion-tactics-background/page/6/#findComment-3992373 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Khorne marines may not just be world eaters, but world eaters certaimly are khorne marines, and leaving them and Khârn out here is poor form. It's one thing not to lock people into particular army themes, but it's hoing too dar to try to lock people out of them. I agree. Someone could just opt not to use any daemons whatsoever, and only use the buffs from the blood tithe table to represent that. Which would completely defeat the purpose of the theme............. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305221-khorne-daemonkin-discussion-tactics-background/page/6/#findComment-3992391 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I think, just as I thought at the release of the 6th Edition book, that GW's opinion is simple. Legions that are not Loyalist? 30K Stream CSM Warbands with a nod towards Legions? CSM, but its the most superficial of nods, all in just the Special Characters. We then had. Black Legion. In combination with the Talon of Horus, this is the vision for 'vanilla' Chaos Space Marines in the time after the Scouring, during the Legion Wars, and finally 40K. To many, it didnt push some of the Black Legion tropes enough, and didnt 'fix' CSM. Crimson Slaughter. An 'in depth' take on one of the myriad paths to Damnation. There is nothing conceptually wrong with this book and it may be (is?) the strongest of the lists we have. To many, it didnt push the Legion tropes at all, when it could have been Word Bearers. IA13. As its a FW item its appropriateness in this list is questioned by some, but its list provides a Chaotic themed Renegades and Heretics list that is greatly thematic, but again, is not Legions. Khorne Daemonkin. This is some of the first Traitor Legions, its some of the recent renegades, but its 100% not Legions. Its a fresh take conceptually on what a unified Mortal and Daemon list would be like, and I love it. Again though, its not Legions, and actually throw's some shade at the Legions within the first few pages. TLDR? I'm over it. GW wont give us Legions, because it wont give us the depth all these other books are providing. They will always fail, so instead of failing to provide what many want, just release new Content to pull in people fresh. Excluding the SC's is odd to a point, but it fits the theme of KDK (Worship of Khorne and the BT's/Heralds who lead them). Khârn doesnt want to ascend, or Khorne doesnt want him too, so he has no place here, he's not Worshipped, and is in fact hated by many. Karanack, is a Flesh Hound. Skarbrand...doesnt have a model. Is anyone really shocked he's not in here? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305221-khorne-daemonkin-discussion-tactics-background/page/6/#findComment-3992395 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Khorne marines may not just be world eaters, but world eaters certaimly are khorne marines, and leaving them and Khârn out here is poor form. It's one thing not to lock people into particular army themes, but it's hoing too dar to try to lock people out of them. The World Eaters are mentioned in the Codex, but just like with the regular Chaos Space Marine book, the focus is again on the more recent renegades rather than the Legions.While it struck me as odd at first, Khârn exclusion does make sense. These guys are the religious fanatics who worship the Daemons of Khorne. Khârn doesn't strike me as the type to worship anyone. Actually that isn't entirely true. The only "recent renegades" mentioned are the Brazen Beasts. We don't where the Eightscarred, Bloodgorged, Wrath, Skullsworn or any of the others came from. And considering the Skullsworn are so large that they can never be assembled in the same place, that says history. And considering there's an abundance of World Eater warbands that aren't even named World Eaters, well the point carries. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305221-khorne-daemonkin-discussion-tactics-background/page/6/#findComment-3992415 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornestar Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Khorne marines may not just be world eaters, but world eaters certaimly are khorne marines, and leaving them and Khârn out here is poor form. It's one thing not to lock people into particular army themes, but it's hoing too dar to try to lock people out of them. I agree. Someone could just opt not to use any daemons whatsoever, and only use the buffs from the blood tithe table to represent that. Which would completely defeat the purpose of the theme............. Or simply be a variation of the theme. A player can already choose not to summon anything, so I disagree. The purpose is to forge that famous narrative. It ultimately doesn't matter, because Khârn isn't in the book regardless. Regarding the World Eaters, post-Heresy: It is at this time that a number of renegade hosts turn their backs upon the notion of revenge. They choose instead to lose themselves in the bloodthirsty worship of Khorne, becoming the Blood God's first Daemonkin warbands. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305221-khorne-daemonkin-discussion-tactics-background/page/6/#findComment-3992434 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schurge Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Is it just me or is it harder to make a decent Berzerker themed list with C:KD then it is C:CSM? You basically have to go with the Decurion-style detachments so there is no easy way to get access to Land Raiders while still paying all the taxes of the Bloodcult + required minor detachment. It is not clear that we can use IA:13 either so the most reliable anti-air we have is the Soul Grinder. Rhino rushes still work but with all the taxes a Rhino Rush at most would be three Berzerker Squads in Rhinos. There are still a lot of non-Berzerker themed lists to make here but it would require me to buy a lot of bikes and daemons and I won't be able to afford new models anytime soon... and by that I mean I probably won't be buying any new models until the Fall... or next year. I like this codex... but it requires me to buy way to many new models just to have access to the rules that make the 3000 points I already have in CSM viable. I am not complaining - this is an expensive hobby - it just seems to me I might be better off sticking with my mono-Khorne-C:CSM until I can afford to buy a bunch of new models. Here's hoping they add some new dataslates for Daemonkin in the near future. How a Berzerker detachment that gives them Rending didn't make it in I have no idea. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305221-khorne-daemonkin-discussion-tactics-background/page/6/#findComment-3992444 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Khorne marines may not just be world eaters, but world eaters certaimly are khorne marines, and leaving them and Khârn out here is poor form. It's one thing not to lock people into particular army themes, but it's hoing too dar to try to lock people out of them.I agree. Someone could just opt not to use any daemons whatsoever, and only use the buffs from the blood tithe table to represent that.Which would completely defeat the purpose of the theme............. Or simply be a variation of the theme. A player can already choose not to summon anything, so I disagree. The purpose is to forge that famous narrative. It ultimately doesn't matter, because Khârn isn't in the book regardless. Regarding the World Eaters, post-Heresy: It is at this time that a number of renegade hosts turn their backs upon the notion of revenge. They choose instead to lose themselves in the bloodthirsty worship of Khorne, becoming the Blood God's first Daemonkin warbands. Considering how interchangeable the terms "traitor" and "renegade" are(all Corsairs being called Renengades even though some are Heresy-era Traitors; Zhufor is called a Traitor Marine because he's in a World Eaters warband even though he is not from the Heresy), again, except for the Brazen Beasts, we have no origin stories of the warbands presented. So....... Yeah. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305221-khorne-daemonkin-discussion-tactics-background/page/6/#findComment-3992486 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Its certainly, currently, a bit harder to deliver Berzerkers. SlaughterCult Lord Zerkers x 3 CAD Lord Cultist Cultist 3 HS Land Raiders I like this codex... but it requires me to buy way to many new models just to have access to the rules that make the 3000 points I already have in CSM viable. I am not complaining - this is an expensive hobby - it just seems to me I might be better off sticking with my mono-Khorne-C:CSM until I can afford to buy a bunch of new models. Somewhere a GW exec whispers 'Excellent....' Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305221-khorne-daemonkin-discussion-tactics-background/page/6/#findComment-3992489 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adra'Melek Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Is it just me or is it harder to make a decent Berzerker themed list with C:KD then it is C:CSM? You basically have to go with the Decurion-style detachments so there is no easy way to get access to Land Raiders while still paying all the taxes of the Bloodcult + required minor detachment. It is not clear that we can use IA:13 either so the most reliable anti-air we have is the Soul Grinder. Rhino rushes still work but with all the taxes a Rhino Rush at most would be three Berzerker Squads in Rhinos. There are still a lot of non-Berzerker themed lists to make here but it would require me to buy a lot of bikes and daemons and I won't be able to afford new models anytime soon... and by that I mean I probably won't be buying any new models until the Fall... or next year. I like this codex... but it requires me to buy way to many new models just to have access to the rules that make the 3000 points I already have in CSM viable. I am not complaining - this is an expensive hobby - it just seems to me I might be better off sticking with my mono-Khorne-C:CSM until I can afford to buy a bunch of new models. Here's hoping they add some new dataslates for Daemonkin in the near future. How a Berzerker detachment that gives them Rending didn't make it in I have no idea. It's hard to run a berserker list with the blood host detachment. But you could easily do one with the CAD couldn't you? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305221-khorne-daemonkin-discussion-tactics-background/page/6/#findComment-3992495 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaeron Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Okay, opened and had a look: book is gorgeous. Some of the art (Cultist, for instance) is among the best I've seen, as well as a few classics! Presentation is clear, the shots of the armies are great - painting is top notch too. I'm looking forward to making lists with this! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305221-khorne-daemonkin-discussion-tactics-background/page/6/#findComment-3992563 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aspiringchaoschampion Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 One thing that you may want to consider allying in is a level 3 sorceror on Santic Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305221-khorne-daemonkin-discussion-tactics-background/page/6/#findComment-3992573 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Why? (Psyker cards not on me...) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305221-khorne-daemonkin-discussion-tactics-background/page/6/#findComment-3992588 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucio Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 For me, the Codex works as it stands, a good way to collect and paint models which feels like it has a purpose on the battlefield. For example, I want to be able to field a Slaughter cult, so bought a Khorne Daemon boxset and some Berzerker's and some Skullreapers and am looking forward to converting some Flesh Hounds out of Chaos Hounds and Khorne Chaos Knights as "counts as" Bikers and maybe even get some Raptors to accompany my Heldrake. GW is a model company, and the new formations and detachments are good way to organise collections of models. Only thing I'm really annoyed with is how hard it is to get a Skullcannon into the detachment, will end up needing a host of daemons, and models kept back to summon too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305221-khorne-daemonkin-discussion-tactics-background/page/6/#findComment-3992596 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aspiringchaoschampion Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Scribe it has some pretty tasty powers 5 are great 1 is situational the other is meh Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305221-khorne-daemonkin-discussion-tactics-background/page/6/#findComment-3992603 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyrar's Finest Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 One thing that you may want to consider allying in is a level 3 sorceror on Santic Khorne does not approve! On the other hand I can see how that would be extremely useful Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305221-khorne-daemonkin-discussion-tactics-background/page/6/#findComment-3992604 Share on other sites More sharing options...
brother_contagion Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Not sure if this has been addressed yet, but would a Blood Host Detachment have Objective Secured or is that only in Combined Arms Detachments? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305221-khorne-daemonkin-discussion-tactics-background/page/6/#findComment-3992605 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyrar's Finest Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 For me, the Codex works as it stands, a good way to collect and paint models which feels like it has a purpose on the battlefield. For example, I want to be able to field a Slaughter cult, so bought a Khorne Daemon boxset and some Berzerker's and some Skullreapers and am looking forward to converting some Flesh Hounds out of Chaos Hounds and Khorne Chaos Knights as "counts as" Bikers and maybe even get some Raptors to accompany my Heldrake. GW is a model company, and the new formations and detachments are good way to organise collections of models. Only thing I'm really annoyed with is how hard it is to get a Skullcannon into the detachment, will end up needing a host of daemons, and models kept back to summon too. Its actually quite easy to get a skull cannon in...add a charnel cohort, or just summon them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305221-khorne-daemonkin-discussion-tactics-background/page/6/#findComment-3992609 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Not just a psyker, but a psyker with the Grey Knight lore. Forge dat narrative. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305221-khorne-daemonkin-discussion-tactics-background/page/6/#findComment-3992610 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aspiringchaoschampion Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Not just a psyker, but a psyker with the Grey Knight lore. Forge dat narrative. LOL i had my level 3 sorceror in a unit of 2 oblits using dat lore :p Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305221-khorne-daemonkin-discussion-tactics-background/page/6/#findComment-3992613 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Not sure if this has been addressed yet, but would a Blood Host Detachment have Objective Secured or is that only in Combined Arms Detachments? Thats a CAD, Allied thing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305221-khorne-daemonkin-discussion-tactics-background/page/6/#findComment-3992615 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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