[HH1.0] The Sons of Barbarus : A Death Guard Tactica Thread

[Memento Of Prospero]

Good day fellow Sons of Barbarus. I will be gradualy making a Death Guard force as a joint escalation project to be the counterpart to slipstream's Emperor's Children force.

 

I was a little suprised to find that there was no Death Guard tactical thread on here. As a legion with a decent following, the XIVth legion deserve it's gathering of thinking minds and generals about it's strategium war room, albeit with 100% more deadly gas fumes. Gather round the table and let us devise tactics and plan out our relentless pursiut of death dealing on genocidal scale! (do mind the corrosive toxic sludge near the doorway, I had to reservice my Cataphract armour twice this week because of it)

 

Preface

I feel that at this point, I must preface with the intentions of this guide and the spirit of my suggestions and reviews. If you want an absolute min/max over the top competitive force, this is not the right guide, or the right legion for you. Move onto the alpha legion for that. My goal is to provide general ideas and concepts to making a cohecive force that has good structure and playability without sacrificing the rule of cool for your models.

 

Legion History

 

The legion was always a symbol of endurance. The Dusk Raiders were the bloody right hand of the Emperor, unyielding and relentless in their stoic defense of his Emperium of Man. After over 80 years of service in the Great Crusade, we were finally reunited with Mortarion, The Death Lord, sire of our legion. We eshewed the standard of others in favour of our own brand of warfare. Who cares about what is ethical and humane? The important part is to crush your enemy, see him driven before you and hear the lamentation of their chapter serfs.

 

 

Legion Special Rules

 

Remorseless

Great way to keep your troops fighting, even when the going gets tough. We get good milage out of immunity to fear and pinning. Especially in a setting without " And They Shall Know No Fear ".

 

Sons of Barbarus

A virtually useless rule outside of Zone Mortalis or city fights. It was buffed to include rerolling Fleshbane and poisoned wounds suffered... A much more useful perk indeed!

 

 

Legion Specific units

 

Deathshroud Terminators

These guys have a unique spin on "fluffy". At 2 wounds each and sporting Manreapers and hand flamers, they echo what it is to be death guard. They can cut down massed infantry like it's nobody's business, but will struggle against other terminators weilding S8 weapons. they are also much shorter range with hand flamers, so make sure to have a good delivery system for these guys. However, they are only 10 points more per model than their standard counterparts, so do keep this in mind.

 

They can be taken as a bodyguard for your HQ, which frees up a slot in your force organization chart. 

 

Grave Warden Terminators

As the only legion with 2 unique terminator units, one would expect some variation in design. Unfortunately, Grave Wardens tend to overlap with the Deathshroud in terms battlefield application. You will find yourself debating 2 wounds VS 4++, Manreaper VS power/chain fist, Grenade Launcher VS Flamer. At least they do not compete for the same slots, making the Death Guard the premium legion for all terminator force.

 

Their saving grace is their cost efficiency and great special rules. I would love for these to have be more like their Iron Warriors counterparts, for some ranged option with the frag replaced with chem-munitions.

 

 

RoW : The Reaping
The name alone makes it worth taking just to tell your opponents that you are fielding... THE REAPING! Psychological warfare is also a great factor. Second, there are no real drawback to the reaping, due to the advantages steering you away from using units that would greatly be affected by them. It's basically Pride of the Legion, more Dakka edition.

 

Superior Firepower
Veteran Tactical Squads and Heavy Weapon Squads become non-compulsory Troops. Sweet. Veteran Tacticals tend to be less mentioned that HWS, but they make fore great mobile fire bases and have access to tons of special rules and wargear. HWS can bring an unprecedented amount of fire power to bare with devastating results. the trade off is a low model count that is not exactly tough to deal with. Deployment will be key if you plan on aggressively fielding these.

 

Implacable
Move Through Cover. Pretty self explanatory here.

 

Dark Arsenal
... And Rad Grenades for all! Deliver your own brand of justice, one peice of prohibited weaponry at a time.

 

The Bad
No deepstrike, flat out or running. Limited to 1 fast attack, but who needs more that one Primaeris Lightning? Tech gadgets and going fast are for Hipsters anyways.

 

 

Building the Reaping

 

Now that we know what the benefits are, we can look at different ways to build around this rite of war. If you plan on bringing heavy weapon squads and vets, make sure to bring rhinos along with them. Since HWS are vert stiff in their movement, bringing a 35 point scoring unit to be their proxy to hold objectives is great. Also adds the mobile wall bonus at the same time. You might not have your units ride them very often, but the rhino will be fast enough for a last turn objective grab, and be a scoring unit being a dedicated transport under Superior Firepower.

 

The flavour of your heavy weapons is entirely up to you. Heavy Flamers can be particularly brutal as a shock troop and objective contesting unit when paired with a transport. However, don't get too overzealous with the Anti-Infantry aspect and make sure of bring some good anti-armour options as well.

 

Filling the mandatory Troop choices

The hardest part to deal with when building around the Reaping is filling those compulsive troop slots.

 

Breachers can give you a solid forward element that has access to melta bombs. On the expensive side, but they can wreck the day of Knights and spartans who get too close all the same. Great for zone denial.

 

A bare bones tactical can provide you with another source of Rad Grenades and with a rhino can potentially contest or grab 2 objectives.

 

Assault squad can help you deal with entrenched elements and greatly benefit from Rad Grenades.

Edited April 26, 2015 by Wolf_Pack

[Memento Of Prospero]

Legion Exclusive Wargear

 

Legion Relic: Barbaran Thurible

Have you ever wanted to add more rad to your rad? Well, here is your chance! This relic is a 6 inch aura that adds another -1 toughness (not applicable to instant death threshold) that causes moral checks on any casualties suffered during the shooting phase, not just 25%. Combined with rad grenades, this makes a simple tactical blob with extra close combat weapon a murder machine against toughness 2 marines.

 

 

Power Scythe

Characters can swap a purchased Power First for a Power Scythe. this means if the power fist comes stock (like on grave wardens) it cannot be traded.

It's a very underwhelming weapon beacause it has a worse profile than a power axe, and needs extreme circumstances to be worth using for it's sweep. It swhould be within 1 inch in my opinion.

 

Do note that it works very well on a jet bike or bike due to silly base sizes.

 

 

Chem-Munitions

 At the cost of absolute freedom, you can upgrade your template weapons to chem-munitions. this causes them to shred your opponent to peices in new and impressive ways, with the drawback of possibly experiencing the same fate with gets hot. Remember that gets hot weapons that roll a 1 do not fire off the shot.

Edited April 24, 2015 by Wolf_Pack

[infyrana]

Thank you for starting this, looking forward to it.

 

Has anyone had any actual game experiences with Grave Wardens, and if so, what's the general verdict please? Run in fives, tens, duplicate squads, transport, ZM only or leave on the display shelf?

[ThatOneMarshal]

Thank you for starting this, looking forward to it.

 

Has anyone had any actual game experiences with Grave Wardens, and if so, what's the general verdict please? Run in fives, tens, duplicate squads, transport, ZM only or leave on the display shelf?

 

I'm looking at their stuff in the legions book. I feel that grav warden shine when you're not fighting marines. Keep in mind when firing at them your wounding on effectively a 5+ you can always use krak but this is the heresy. Ap 3 is everywhere. If your fighting against say solar auxilia they are money. I doubt they would be good against mechanicus. Footslog them and use them as a counter assault unit potentially? So 10 man squad. If playing against marine shelf time I feel.

 

I'm looking forward to more! I'm still pissed that crysos Mortug gets the ability the 7th edition master of ambush while sevater is stuck with the sucky 6th edition one. Speaking of Mortug he sounds absolutely amazing.

[Memento Of Prospero]

Well, their shooting is somewhat peculiar and short ranged for sure, but they come stock with power fists and whole unit can take chain fists. That means you are wreckings contemptors and knights and go to work on spartans once they get close to deliver thier cargo. Anti armour seems to be a weakness to Death Guard's great anti-horde nature.

 

It always depends on your battlefield needs. a unit of 5 in a landraider can serve as a mobile reserve and clean up crew. A unit of 5 on foot well placed in your lines will give you a melee deterrent. a unit of 10 will make a great hammer unit and their special rules can be used to bait an opponent into a possibly failed charge.

 

And unlike some other terminator choices, they are not overcost

Edited April 16, 2015 by Wolf_Pack

[Memento Of Prospero]

I will be updating the orignal posts as I go, the building process should take me a week or two.

[Chaeron]

Great start Wolf_Pack - looking forward to seeing this develop.

 

My Pre-Heresy Death Guard are getting larger now, and I'm looking to play more - so all useful stuff. Keep it up!

[Memento Of Prospero]

I will expand my writting to include my impressions Of The Reaping and Pride of the Legion RoW and which units excel with them.

 

I will also draft some sample evolving lists for 1,000 1,250 1,500 1,850 2,000 and 3,000 possibly.

 

Is there anything in particular you guys would like to see discussed?

[ThatOneMarshal]

I think that if your commander needs a termi body guard get yourself some death shroud. Crysos looks fun and can mitigate the readings failings with infiltrate. I don't have my book on me though is he a praetor?

[Slips]

I think that if your commander needs a termi body guard get yourself some death shroud. Crysos looks fun and can mitigate the readings failings with infiltrate. I don't have my book on me though is he a praetor?

So far, all characters with a few exceptions (Kaedes Nex, Exodus, Ryllanor) all have Master of the Legion. So yes, he should.

[Hesh Kadesh]

My biggest problem with morturg is that his epic warlord trait is lost if you want to run him. You can't have both as he is not a master of the legion.

 

Otherwise, infiltrating scoring scouting (with attached vigilators) of Shred Heavy Flamers and Culverins backed by outriders with move through cover and scout with melta/meltabombs. Maybe swap a vigilator for a librarian with rad nades and a thurible.

 

10 man Assault squads to make up the rest, equipped with either dual flamers or triple power swords and rad mades to mince enemy infantry.

 

Yes. You read that rightm the units which get the most from DG rules are the units traditionally disliked by DG. Is it any wonder they lost the siege for terra?

[infyrana]

Wolf:  I'd like to hear what people think about the RoW:The Reaping and if it's on par with the newer legion Rites / Rules to take on other typical Legion lists.  Or did we get reaped with the short end of the straw, so to speak :)

 

Most of all though, for that darkside Loyalist (read:unfortunate bio/alchem/rad user) who'll do anything and use anything to stay alive, I'm interested in seeing ideas for a Morturg / Destroyer based list that can take on your typical legion list (Praetor Spartanstar, TactiApothBlobs, Sicarans).

[redmapa]

My biggest problem with morturg is that his epic warlord trait is lost if you want to run him. You can't have both as he is not a master of the legion.

 

Otherwise, infiltrating scoring scouting (with attached vigilators) of Shred Heavy Flamers and Culverins backed by outriders with move through cover and scout with melta/meltabombs. Maybe swap a vigilator for a librarian with rad nades and a thurible.

 

 

Im pretty sure you can run a generic praetor to get Master of the Legion and a RoW and then use another model as the warlord because nowhere does it state in the praetor or MotL entries that they have to be the warlord.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Hm. Thats more likely because of how badly written the master of the legion rules are. (Only one model with the rule per 1000 points, but gain the rule if they're warlord etc). There are also no real mechanics for selecting a rite of war. They are included within Master of the Legion heading, but nothing is dependant on actually a Master of the Legion present.

 

I do not think this is intentional, however, and is reliant on a Master of the Legion being the Warlord, due to the wording of it being only for a warlord.

[Memento Of Prospero]

Mortug's warlord trait strength decays the larger the game scales. As such, he excels at low point games where he has the most impact and where The Reaping has the least benefits. So him not being Praetor is not such a bad thing.

The Reaping's benefit truly kick in as you reach that 4th heavy support choice or 5th elite slot. This tend to happen at later stages beyond 3,000 points, unless you build exclusively towards these goals. In a way this is the reason why many don't see the Death Guard as particularly good, as we rarely witness games where 5,000+ points are engaged and The Reaping takes it's toll (ALL OF THE PUNS!).

Edited April 17, 2015 by Wolf_Pack

[Hesh Kadesh]

I disagree.

 

Heavy Support choices can't score in Age of Darkness.

 

Sure, you can always min max heavy support slots, but you're not taking the Reaping for maximising the amount of heavy support slots, you're taking the Reaping because you want to have scoring Heavy Support Squads. Vets, eh, they need Pride of the Legion to become more useful than they already (not that they're unuseful, as that's the opposite; they get no real additional benefits from the FOC change, compared to HS Squads; at higher points, then yes, I do agree, that FoC Modification becomes much more useful; although the primary need for that is lost (more FoC slots for Drop Podding Dreadnoughts as the Reaping = no Deep Strike).

 

Where Morturg would have come in helpful in this sort of list is by providing Infiltrate (not necessarily to get close, but to get the best angle and prevent cover from ruining your funzies.

 

Consider; 340pts for 10 Volkite Culverins and an Augury Scanner, sitting at 45", but crucially; no more than 36" from an objective (really, 39", but in case of casualties and/or early game end, I think that 24-30" is best so that he arrives to contest turn 5). Morturg uses Endurance; they gain Relentless, slowly begin to walk towards the objective, pouring 40 S6 Deflagrate shots. Throw in a Master of Signal if you really want to make it brutal for BS5 and a single Basilisk shot as well and an Apothecary in case Endurance fails to go off and to provide a cheap power sword, artificer armour or second augury scanner.

 

Although a reasonably eggs in one basket kind of deal, that these guys have Rad Grenades, Heavy 4 Overwatch Weapons which can instant kill (and Rad Grenades affect wounds taken via overwatch) AND Deflagrate makes them a highly dangerous assault target (especially when it can intercept as well)#, because who doesn't like Deep Striking into around 12 unsaved wounds (versus MEQ's)? Which is backed by multiple power sword

 

As ever, your big threat is Drop Pods which you will struggle to scratch; which is why you need something like Interceptor Autocannons or Missiles placed so that at least half can get to the Drop Pod without providing a cover save to help strip wounds and leave the juicy MEQ's for you.

 

This squad costs around what 2 smaller squads cost, but it can soak fire like no tomorrow (throw on Hardened armour and laugh as anything that's not a Magna Melta or Scorpius or Typhon can do much damage to you.

 

Morturg is good; but maneuverability is key to winning 30K; wiping out enemy units is key, but if you can't take the objective, then you're still coming down to a draw decided by who hopefully going first and get Firstblood and Slay the Warlord (because honestly, you'll be struggling to get linebreaker).

[Slips]

Well, if Morty isn't present, you could take a Librarian, roll for the Malediction Power making all shots against the afflicted target gain rending then shoot your 40 Culverin Shots into it.

[Memento Of Prospero]

I disagree.

 

Heavy Support choices can't score in Age of Darkness.

 

Sure, you can always min max heavy support slots, but you're not taking the Reaping for maximising the amount of heavy support slots, you're taking the Reaping because you want to have scoring Heavy Support Squads. Vets, eh, they need Pride of the Legion to become more useful than they already (not that they're unuseful, as that's the opposite; they get no real additional benefits from the FOC change, compared to HS Squads; at higher points, then yes, I do agree, that FoC Modification becomes much more useful; although the primary need for that is lost (more FoC slots for Drop Podding Dreadnoughts as the Reaping = no Deep Strike).

 

Where Morturg would have come in helpful in this sort of list is by providing Infiltrate (not necessarily to get close, but to get the best angle and prevent cover from ruining your funzies.

 

Consider; 340pts for 10 Volkite Culverins and an Augury Scanner, sitting at 45", but crucially; no more than 36" from an objective (really, 39", but in case of casualties and/or early game end, I think that 24-30" is best so that he arrives to contest turn 5). Morturg uses Endurance; they gain Relentless, slowly begin to walk towards the objective, pouring 40 S6 Deflagrate shots. Throw in a Master of Signal if you really want to make it brutal for BS5 and a single Basilisk shot as well and an Apothecary in case Endurance fails to go off and to provide a cheap power sword, artificer armour or second augury scanner.

 

Although a reasonably eggs in one basket kind of deal, that these guys have Rad Grenades, Heavy 4 Overwatch Weapons which can instant kill (and Rad Grenades affect wounds taken via overwatch) AND Deflagrate makes them a highly dangerous assault target (especially when it can intercept as well)#, because who doesn't like Deep Striking into around 12 unsaved wounds (versus MEQ's)? Which is backed by multiple power sword

 

As ever, your big threat is Drop Pods which you will struggle to scratch; which is why you need something like Interceptor Autocannons or Missiles placed so that at least half can get to the Drop Pod without providing a cover save to help strip wounds and leave the juicy MEQ's for you.

 

This squad costs around what 2 smaller squads cost, but it can soak fire like no tomorrow (throw on Hardened armour and laugh as anything that's not a Magna Melta or Scorpius or Typhon can do much damage to you.

 

Morturg is good; but maneuverability is key to winning 30K; wiping out enemy units is key, but if you can't take the objective, then you're still coming down to a draw decided by who hopefully going first and get Firstblood and Slay the Warlord (because honestly, you'll be struggling to get linebreaker).

 

Augury scanner works both ways and you are putting eggs in a basket that isn't really survivable. Scoring is not really that important in my heresy experience, especially MEQs. They just don't live long enough when things go bad. This goes double for a unit that can't move if it wants to contribute offiensively. I would employ troops in rhinos before trying to close the distance with heavy support units. you would automatically lose to armies that can have infiltrate as a USR.

[infyrana]

I disagree.

 

Heavy Support choices can't score in Age of Darkness.

 

Sure, you can always min max heavy support slots, but you're not taking the Reaping for maximising the amount of heavy support slots, you're taking the Reaping because you want to have scoring Heavy Support Squads. Vets, eh, they need Pride of the Legion to become more useful than they already (not that they're unuseful, as that's the opposite; they get no real additional benefits from the FOC change, compared to HS Squads; at higher points, then yes, I do agree, that FoC Modification becomes much more useful; although the primary need for that is lost (more FoC slots for Drop Podding Dreadnoughts as the Reaping = no Deep Strike).

 

Apologies for missing your mindset on this, but why do Vets need PotLegion when they have The Reaping - since both Rites can have Vets as troops?  Or are you getting at the fact you still need basic Tacticals in the Reaping list for compulsories, making it a pricey affair to have soo many troop options?

[Hesh Kadesh]

Pride of the Legion allows them to become Compulsory. Superior Firepower makes them only non-Compulsory. As non-compulsory selections, they do nothing to alleviate unit tax, meaning that the only benefit is the moving out of the crowded elites location. They already score, as a result of the 7th ed FAQ update, meaning that they recieve no other benefit.  The main reasoning for wanting to make more room for elites is that Dreadnought Talons with Drop Pods (unless Orbital Assault) are limited to 1 Dreadnought per talon. The Reaping however removes access to Drop Pods, so Dreadnoughts are free to be 1-3 (unless Mortis Dreads, and honestly, why are you taking them when you have scoring missile launchers or Deredeos to do that)

 

Compared to Heavy Support squads, where they can become Scoring, and are no longer competing against vehicles like Scorpius Whirlwind, Deredeo or Fire Raptor, they have a much freer option.

 

@Wolf_Pack; not really eggs in one basket; not really. You can stack Morturg and 10 guys for 530pts. How does an Augury Scanner work both ways? Unless you're podding in and need the Nuncios, Infiltrators don't care about that. Infiltrators care about deploying after everyone else and getting clear lines of sight. Scoring not important? With respect, not sure how deep your experience goes, as scoring is the be all end all of winning games in 7th edition, 30K or not.  Noone is trying to close any distance with heavy support units. Otherwise there's no point in walking, especially when it's 45" of range. It sits at a distance where it can ensure it either contests an enemy objective, or it moves in to fill the gap left by advancing meatsack taxes which shield your relentless volkites/missiles.

 

Don't forget that you can get cheap as chips Shred Heavy Flamers for heavy support squads.

[Memento Of Prospero]

Pride of the Legion allows them to become Compulsory. Superior Firepower makes them only non-Compulsory. As non-compulsory selections, they do nothing to alleviate unit tax, meaning that the only benefit is the moving out of the crowded elites location. They already score, as a result of the 7th ed FAQ update, meaning that they recieve no other benefit.  The main reasoning for wanting to make more room for elites is that Dreadnought Talons with Drop Pods (unless Orbital Assault) are limited to 1 Dreadnought per talon. The Reaping however removes access to Drop Pods, so Dreadnoughts are free to be 1-3 (unless Mortis Dreads, and honestly, why are you taking them when you have scoring missile launchers or Deredeos to do that)

 

Compared to Heavy Support squads, where they can become Scoring, and are no longer competing against vehicles like Scorpius Whirlwind, Deredeo or Fire Raptor, they have a much freer option.

 

@Wolf_Pack; not really eggs in one basket; not really. You can stack Morturg and 10 guys for 530pts. How does an Augury Scanner work both ways? Unless you're podding in and need the Nuncios, Infiltrators don't care about that. Infiltrators care about deploying after everyone else and getting clear lines of sight. Scoring not important? With respect, not sure how deep your experience goes, as scoring is the be all end all of winning games in 7th edition, 30K or not.  Noone is trying to close any distance with heavy support units. Otherwise there's no point in walking, especially when it's 45" of range. It sits at a distance where it can ensure it either contests an enemy objective, or it moves in to fill the gap left by advancing meatsack taxes which shield your relentless volkites/missiles.

 

Don't forget that you can get cheap as chips Shred Heavy Flamers for heavy support squads.

 

Augury scanner can effectively prevent infiltration as well, and are accessible to your opponent and thus can do denial both ways. The picture you presented was Mortug, a HWS, A master of the signal and an apothecary. That's very different from Mortug and a 10 man squad. I would never put my warlord in a 10 man squad of MEQs without serious backup. You can't use half the argument when making your case.

 

You said yourself that you would walk towards the objective under Endurance. Scoring is useless on units that need to stay at range to survive, and have no mobility for end game grabs. Again, you said yourself that mobility is key, and these guys have none. It will work on backfield objectives on your end of the board, which is usually not a contested area. They can't even run under the reaping.

 

No offense, but what is your 7th ed experience in 30k? When I want to take an objective with a scoring unit, it better be A - fast enough to zoom in and grab last minute or B stand up to a Knight, Castellax or whatever flavour of terminator or elite unit is across the board come to clear it. a HWS will not do any of the above. Them being scoring is a bonus, but it's not that important. What matters is that they no longer compete against other heavy supports. That that's exactly what I said ealier.

[ThatOneMarshal]

Here's something that I saw that's interesting. A unit that would mesh well with death guard rules is the assualt squad. Don't you get off your chair, here me out. Rad grenades help them more than tactical squads because they can reach the frontlines faster. Also move through cover benefits them waaaay more than tactical marines because they have to make dangerous terrain checks, potentially losingm a member. Also they can get hand flamers for shred. As all you sadly they are very expensive. Way to expensive to consider.

 

 

So what are your guys thoughts on mortarion? The Lord of reapers is tough, though not as tough as Vulkan sadly. Who would you pair him with? The terminators?

[Slips]

So what are your guys thoughts on mortarion? The Lord of reapers is tough, though not as tough as Vulkan sadly. Who would you pair him with? The terminators?

 

Not as Tough as Vulkan?! Hes T7, 7 Wounds and can re-roll failed FNP and IWND rolls and has a 2+/4++ with a bunch of other buffs to boot.

 

I dont know about you, but I dont think even Vulkan matches that. He comes close but hes not the head honcho of toughness.

 

Mortarion can also "Teleport"

[gstoe]

Assault troops with rad grenades are quite good when using the reaping RoW. They aren't exactly cheap, especially with meltabombs, but they are a fast anti inf/tank choice in a normally very slow list.

 

I'm using two of them with a troop of destroyer and they are feared by my enemies, regardless if they are playing massed infantry or tanks.

 

Combine them with Morty's ability to port around the table and you get a very mobile, hard hitting army.

[Memento Of Prospero]

Assault troops with rad grenades are quite good when using the reaping RoW. They aren't exactly cheap, especially with meltabombs, but they are a fast anti inf/tank choice in a normally very slow list.

 

I'm using two of them with a troop of destroyer and they are feared by my enemies, regardless if they are playing massed infantry or tanks.

 

Combine them with Morty's ability to port around the table and you get a very mobile, hard hitting army.

 

I have to agree with this. They might not be "fluffy", but they provide a reliable source of anti tank capability.