[HH1.0] The Sons of Barbarus : A Death Guard Tactica Thread

[ThatOneMarshal]

I would say flamers with chem munitions. I'm pretty sure the dark fire has a longer range than the bolters so they don't come in handy as often. Instead I would flamers as a way to kill a couple of marines before they try to assualt you.

[Kilofix]

I usually have 1 Flamer and 1 Bolter.

 

Since I run Castellax in Squads, not having any Bolter at all gives up quite a lot of potential Bolter shots at range.

 

But since MCs can only fire 2 weapons, I have the other arm with a Flamer.

[infyrana]

Thanks guys, good point on the MC's firing 2 weapons, so definitely yes to the flamer and chem munitions, and magnetise one for a bolter.

 

Is there a safe optimum number of Castellax to add alongside the Praevian for maximum efficiency?  Currently own 2, thinking a third might not be bad, but didn't want to go overkill.

 

This next question might be ill-placed in a DG tactica, but do we (DG) gain anything by allying in a small contingent of Legio Cybernetica so that I can field a Thanatar Siege Automata?  It's a shame there's no way to field one without adding allies, but I do like that model enough to put some DG colours onto it.

[Memento Of Prospero]

I really like 5 man squads as an iron hand. They are tough as nails and can trudge down the middle while putting out darkfire lance shots.

 

tanatar is the next best thing to a Typhon for entrenched units.

[ThatOneMarshal]

So I thought about writing my own thoughts about the death guard if that's okay with wolf pack.

 

So legion rules wise the death guard I feel are in the middle of the pack. Out of the original 4 from betrayal they are easily the best next to SOH.

 

The average legion are has the ability to ignore pinning tests and they know no fear. Now at first glance those don't sound all that great when you think of iron hands and alpha legion and especially if your coming from 40k where leadership means almost nothing.Here in 30k it means that death guard are immune to tricks from other legions. Iron warriors with shrapnel bolts? Hah I laugh at it. Night lords? You'll literally make them cry as all of their benefits from their primarch are wasted upon fighting you. The second rule sons of barbarous doesn't come into play as often however it's nice if you play against dark eldar or tyranids with their hordes of poison shots. Intractable isn't all that bad and is certainly not as harmful as other legions like having to challenge. That's another benefit, you may not have as powerful benefits but you don't have huge drawbacks either. We also have chem munitions which means take as many flamers at you can. Power schytes aren't all that great but they do get better with the bigger base soze of the model. I hear that a jet bike will net you 5-7 in base contact.

 

Hq: we have three hqs typhus I mean typhon who is okay. His chem bombardment is awsome and his warlord trait is really nice. Take him with some death shroud and your good.

 

Durak rask is much better than typhon. He's cheap enough. He's got combat potential with his praetor esque statline and he is a nice for a force multiplier. He's basically a mix of siege breaker master of signal and praetor. He's got master of the legion which is a big plus. He's great.

 

Crysos Mortug. The first psyker character in the game ironically comes from the death guard. He's a huge force multiplier with his automatic biomancy powers and his warlord trait. He's got one of the best warlord traits in the game with his ability to infiltrate 3 squads. He can also handle himself well with buffing himself with endurance. I think he even has a rad grenade. The only downswide to him is his lack of master of legion meaning you don't get his full effects in the reaping, where his abilities are used to their full effect.

 

Special units: I feel like we've gone over this and most of the opinions expressed about these units mirror my own.

 

Death shroud: two wound terminators with hand flamers and power scythes. Awsome. These are your anti horde units. Try to keep them away from actual terminators. I would always take these guys as body guards to my praetor instead of regular terminators.

 

Grave warden: catapratchtii terminaotrs with guns that can give you space cancer or krak to the face and power fists. They also have an ability that makes those that's charge them make an disordered charge. The guns are pretty subpar especially if all you come across is marines due to wounding on 5+. Their saving grace as mentioned is their cheapness. Their damn well cheap for what you get. I would use these against the big guys with 2+ saves or mcs. I would use these for counter charges.

 

Mortarion: the death lord. He his a tough Sob with his Toughness and wounds 7! He ignores poison and things that wound him on a specific number. Offense wise he's okay I feel. He str 7 re roll armour rolls but strikes at inti 1 which is a shame. The latern is pretty nice. He's a nice force multiplier that wants you to take more missle weapons.

 

The reaping: this is an interesting row. You get rad grenades, move through cover, and you can never run. You only have one fast attack but who cares. You also can't deep strike. Oh and you get veterans and heavy weapon teams as non compulsry troops. That's a big selling point of the row. The main problem is that veterans can be gained in different row much easier. Heavy weapons teams are interesting. The problem is that they aren't compulsry meaning you need to take tactical squads or assualt and siege squads. All of their are pretty expensive which means less points for heavy weapon squads. I still think it's worth it however. Assualt squads gain a lot from the row however if your like me and like being fluffy then a 20 man squad with extra ccw is good. Or a 10 man squad to try to get objectives though I think assualt squads are better in this role.

 

That's my take on it.

[Memento Of Prospero]

I just put my piece to get the ball going, I do not how in any way this thread ;)

[infyrana]

This thread needs more loving input from players with experience !  Sadly.. that's not me

 

So here's a question or two to fire up those minds

 

Following the release of numerous LoW and other heavy duty units, I feel that I might still be lacking on sufficient anti-tank to kill Spartans/knights comfortably.  I own no flyers or drop pods, using DG RoW: The Reaping, and the basis of my anti-tank consists of 3x Contemptors (kheres/DCCW+graviton x2, Mortis Las-Cannon), 2x Sicarans, Deredeo w/AutoC, Castellax w/Darkfire, plus my tacticals (and a small spread of Volkite Calivers/Chargers, and powerfists) etc.

 

So I'm looking into the following options to expand my ever increasing collection:

 

- For the Heavy slot I was looking at the Sicaran Venator, which seems to be one of the 'in' units atm.  But I'm torn here as I'd really like to add a Scorpius to my collection instead - feels more fluffy.

 

- For the Elite, I was looking at Rapiers, but I continue to read mixed ideas on Laser Destroyers versus Graviton versus the Quad Mortars, what's the deal with fielding these in a single slot?  Again, I've more than enough elite options with my plethora of Contemptor/Dread options to want to avoid these.

 

- Troops - Finally, here's where the real query comes in... RoW:The Reaping allows my Vets and Heavy Support Squads as troops (I already own enough compulsory).  But what's viable here?  I've been looking at the idea of some Missile Launcher heavy squads, 5, 7 or 10 man, between 1-2 squads (even if 5-men, I can use these in Vet squads for a PotL list).  Or are there better options in the Troops section?

 

 

Please could you guys give a little thought to our specific DG Rite of War Tactica and help me find a nice Anti-Tank balance

[Memento Of Prospero]

I played a game yesterday with my IH, which got me thinking over how well it would port over to DG playstyle. I ran a 2k list Pride of the Legion with Autek Mor 2x 5 man gorgons terminator squads with landraider transports, 2x 10 heavy weapons squads, 3 Thudd Gun rapiers. it runs high amounts of anti armour (one HWS lascannons, one Volkite Culverin) along with shatter shell quad mortars. the landraiders can take lascannon pot shots as well.

 

And the anti infantry aspect would be well convered with terminators moping crews and volkite culverins.

 

 

You could run this as DG and have some interesting benefits. 

 

As Pride of the legion, Deathshroud are better at cleanup jobs than gorgons, they can mow down MEQs and last longer with that second wound. The landraider guarantees good placement to drop those shred templates. 

[infyrana]

Cheers for the reply Wolf.  So you'd be running an HQ, a squad of Deathshroud or in Phobos' as the other HQ options, two max vet squads with missile launchers and Tank Hunter (?), a squad each of maxed Lascannons and Volkite Culverins as heavy supports, and thudd guns for just around the 2k mark.  I'm guessing a Missile Launcher heavy squad wouldn't cut it as well as the Lascannons?

 

Am still way up in the air about finding something that fits the vision of my army to deal with flare shielded Spartans.

[Memento Of Prospero]

Melta bombs and deathshroud can take them ;)

 

Lascannons have that S9 and AP 2 to kill targets dead. They will also threaten terminators and other tough cookies. I really can't justify missile launchers when AV 13 and 14 are the kings of the heresy.

 

You can go down several roads here:

-At low points levels you could run Mortug as your sole HQ to forgo the rite and take benefit of is warlord trait and psyker abilities.

-Rask can provide you with Tank hunter and master of the legion at a good price.

-Typhon is expensive, but he brings a good toolbox.

-Standard Praetor is the least interesting choice, but he can bring relics/

-A master of the Signal as a second HQ could rock the boat with volkites.

 

 

Vets and HWS are both non-compulsory in the reaping if you want to play it, I would probably advocate 10 man tacticals in rhinos for your compulsory.

 

Here's what I cooked up for 2,000 points. Keep in mind that the reaping will start to shine upwards of 3,000 to 4,000 points.

 

HQ

Durak Rask

 

Troops

10x Legion Tactical Squad with Rhino

Artificer armour sergeant

 

10x Legion Tactical Squad with Rhino
Artificer armour sergean

 

10 x Legion Heavy weapons Squad

Lascannons, artificer armour sergeant

 

10 x Legion Heavy weapons Squad

Volkite Culverins, artificer armour sergeant

 

Elites

5 Deathshroud Terminators in a Phobos land raider

1x Rad Grenade, Melta Bombs

 

2x Rapier Weapons Battery

Quad Mortars

[Onehip]

I personally love the idea of running Mortug as my Warlord, because of his trait.

Do you guys feel that is a fair trade off or would you rather take the Reaping?

 

Love the idea of a heavy support squad w/Heavy Flamers w/chem mutations in a rhino infiltrating and just burning it all down 

[Memento Of Prospero]

can't infiltrate vehicles anymore, if I read master of ambush right.

 

However I did run a Morturg list this week (I had forgotten to field a Deredeo, silly me) and got some good results considering the unit disadvantage.

 

3k list with :

 

Morturg

 

Praevian 

5x Castellax with dark fire cannons

 

20 man breachers

4x graviton

 

20 man tactical

 

10 man support

Volkite Calivers

Rhino

 

Contemptor

dual grav fists

 

10 man Destroyer squad

jump packs, melta bombs, 2 rad granade launchers, 2 phosphex bombs

 

sicaran Battle Tank

Lascannon sponsons

 

Deredeo (was mising from the fight >.>)

 

I would probably trade the volkites for plasmas in retrospect, to add more AP 2 weapons. the game ran down the wire against a 2+ heavy and AV 14 spam imperial fist list ran by Slipstream, where Sigismund pretty much killed a good 1/3 of the army.

 

I'll write up more on the game and tactics use tomorrow, and also update some more of the tactica.

[Slips]

To be fair, Sigismund did tank 19 shots and only lose 2 wounds in the process :p

[Memento Of Prospero]

you forgot the 8 wounds cause by the destroyers!

[Slips]

you forgot the 8 wounds cause by the destroyers!

>_> yeah.

[infyrana]

Great stuff, cheers guys :)

 

Am I correct in thinking Master of Ambush can infiltrate units which have dedicated transports? So an indirect way of doing it.

 

Will you be planning a rematch after a few tweaks?

[Slips]

Great stuff, cheers guys

 

Am I correct in thinking Master of Ambush can infiltrate units which have dedicated transports? So an indirect way of doing it.

 

Will you be planning a rematch after a few tweaks?

Probably will. I for sure wont be running Pride of the Legion with 2 5 Man Terminator Squads and just throwing them away, thats for sure >_> 

 

...

 

You'll find out in the Bat Rep. Suffice to say, a Second Templar Squad in a Land Raider will take their Place. MORE AV14!!

[Memento Of Prospero]

Great stuff, cheers guys

 

Am I correct in thinking Master of Ambush can infiltrate units which have dedicated transports? So an indirect way of doing it.

 

Will you be planning a rematch after a few tweaks?

 

 

I have a few things I'd like to change in mind, I'll do some list editing and repost in when I am done tonight.

 

Thoughts on Morturg

Great force multiplier, lots of tactical flexibility with Master of Ambush. However his wargear is severally lacking punch. If you infiltrate him in a large breacher unit, you really need to make sure they don't get tied up in close combat, because he's dead meat if that happens.

 

Other problem with him, he is a Lv 1 psyker with a 2 warp charge spell. I failed to manifest it 4 out of 5 turns in my last game.

 

I am going to think about what I can bring to make up for that and better complement his strengths, because there is no way to improve his weaknesses.

[Caillum]

I love Morturg! But his low Psychic level is an issue. Much like Sevatar, he will do well with a ML2 Librarian Consul backing him up. It is unfluffy for Death Guard to have Psykers, let alone 2 of them in one force, but it will help out!

 

Also, imagine a 20-man Tactical squad with Morturg in it: he manifests Endurance on them, they Fury of the Legion with Rapid Fire Bolters, then they can charge coz they're Relentless! A-ma-zing!

[Memento Of Prospero]

I love Morturg! But his low Psychic level is an issue. Much like Sevatar, he will do well with a ML2 Librarian Consul backing him up. It is unfluffy for Death Guard to have Psykers, let alone 2 of them in one force, but it will help out!

 

Also, imagine a 20-man Tactical squad with Morturg in it: he manifests Endurance on them, they Fury of the Legion with Rapid Fire Bolters, then they can charge coz they're Relentless! A-ma-zing!

 

That is amazing but situational, since you can't fury of the legion if you moved that turn, regardless of relentless.

 

I can't justifty a libby in most of my forces. At the cost of a libby, you can get some more tangible choices that don't fail as often as psychic powers.

[Fairstrife1138]

IV literally just settled into Death Guard as my army. And this thread is awesome.

 

Units to avoid?

 

Units to grab?

IV literally just settled into Death Guard as my army. And this thread is awesome.

 

Units to avoid?

 

Units to grab?

[infyrana]

Morturg does seem to have some drawbacks for such an awesome character.  With his melee equipment, do you think he would be better suited to being placed inside a melee unit or even a 9-man tactical support or heavy support unit?  Infiltrating them where needed, be it rapid firing Plasma or some chem munition HF/Flamer walls?  I would imagine his Endurance ability might help a bit.

 

Regarding psykers in DG 30k.  You can field them as much as any other legion - pre-primarch that is ;)  Also don't forget that there were pyskers in the army (ie Crysos and Typhon), they were just suppressing their abilities due to Mortarions viewpoints, then later with the Council of Nikaea.  I'd imagine many began to let their powers slip back into life during the events of the Heresy starting at Isstvan 3 as loyalist fighting for survival or traitors when the truths were known.

[infyrana]

Faistrike - depends on your goal.  Pride of the Legion full terminator force?  Grab terminators for your core troops etc, then of course Spartans and Raiders accordingly.  If you want tacticals for your compulsory, then grab tacticals :)  Beyond that, our DG Contemptor model looks awesome, you might just want it for the sweet looks.  Depending if you are running our Rite of War or not, you may wish to field some Apothecaries to keep your troops alive longer as they trudge up the field.

 

I recommend the DG torsos and either DG or IH heads, by the time you have a pack or two plus the special weapons pack, you could pick up some spare arms, legs and backpacks from ebay to make another unit up.  (tactical box MkIV and MkVI legs, Chaos tactical anvilus backpacks and chaos bolter arms all with skulls removed should fit in ok)

[Fairstrife1138]

thanks for the tips man. Really helpful.

 

I probably will go down the route of PotL as the Reaping is good, but I LOVE the idea of a specialist unit as a troops choice.

 

I harks back to my 3 units of 7 plague marines that always felt so cool.

 

So definitely termies or Vets as troops.

 

Then I will probably have 2 units to deal with infantry. 2 for Tank. And then go from there.

 

I am a massive fan of the Praevians with some Castellax. Only discovered that on here the other day and I think that's Sick as F.

 

And I love artillery.

 

My Praetor, if not typhon because rule of cool, then my own character of my making. Something like that.

 

So ROUGH list would be

 

HQ- probably Typhon or Praetor.

 

As many termies and vets as I can afford and field. Rhinos for the vets. LR for the termies with a Spartan for the HQ.

 

Reaper batteries and tarantula turrets.

 

Decent artillery support squads.

 

Grave wardens someplace.

 

Contemptors. Some with AC, Some with LC.

[disease]

So I'm currently building a 2500pt list and unsure if to play infiltrating 'Morturg missile' or The reaping.

 

One thing that I'm not sure of, but think could work is legion jetbikes or Preator on jetbike - but using power scythes to take advantage of the big bases. Could this work? How would such a unit look like for maximum devastation?