Slips Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Sniping Frag Missile is also a scary prospect for blobs. Deepstriking isnt super common like 40k but its not hard to get either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostmourne Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Has anyone play tested the Sizerains or the Locasta? I think they should really compliment the Hammer and Anvil style of playing. Especially without using the RoW so we can free up points in a 2k game for more support options Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 (edited) I've tried both. The Suzerains are fantastic, I run them with the Primarch and a Chaplain. It's a really expensive unit when you add the transport but they're pretty much unstoppable in assault against similar sized elite units. I wouldn't charge them into 10 Cataphractii and another Primarch without thinning out the enemy unit's numbers unless i was also running a full unit of 10. I've run the Locutarus storm squad in 2 test games. If you want to run Assault Marines they are a far, far better alternative. You don't have to deepstrike them, and unless you're facing multiple Medusas or a Typhon they are very survivable compared to other jump Marines. Think of them as the Ultramarine version of the 40k Sanguinary guard. Their duty is strictly limited to anti infantry combat, however, and they can't be equipped to deal with vehicles. They will cut their way through Marine blobs or other assault marine variants with ease. A squad make an excellent deepstrike distraction. You could theoretically deepstrike them behind terrain and then hassle /assault your opponent. Edited December 5, 2015 by Ishagu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 (edited) I thought there was a general lack of deep striking in 30k...or am I mistaken there? I wish there were heavy flamer bits in the BaC box to do just that. I also now giggle at the thought of a sniping krak missile. It's not hard to achieve per se, but it limits the army so significantly that very few people play a deepstrike focused army. Unless you run allies or multiple detachments in larger games you'd be missing out on too many unit types. Edited December 5, 2015 by Ishagu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminus Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Sniping Frag Missile is also a scary prospect for blobs. Deepstriking isnt super common like 40k but its not hard to get either. I disagree. Unless opponent likes to run his guys in base to base, the HB is no worse against "blobs". Frag missiles scare no one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostmourne Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Ishagu, that's great news mate. Good to hear you've had some success with them! I would probably not use a Chaplain but maybe a Praetor. Maybe a Champion as well who knows. I'm looking forward to getting this set up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Ishagu, that's great news mate. Good to hear you've had some success with them! I would probably not use a Chaplain but maybe a Praetor. Maybe a Champion as well who knows. I'm looking forward to getting this set up If you want to run Locutarus and Suzerains by all means go ahead, but you'll need to insure your heavy supports can deal with armour. Sicarans, Deredeo, Vindicator Laser Destroyers :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostmourne Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Yeah that's what I'm trying to sort. Decent armoured Yank Killers. I like to keep it simple. Infantry for killing infantry. Tanks for killing tanks. HQ's for killing HQ's. Makes it predicable but easy haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 It's how the Heresy should be played :-) Units generally don't multi-task unlike 40k Marines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostmourne Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Yeah exactly. Although I do like the idea of 5 man tactical vet squads with some weapon to help them do a task. Like HB with Suspensor Web to just chow through chaff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Preference of the laser vindi or laser sicaran? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caillum Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 (edited) Laser Vindicator is awesome. It will consistently strip hull points from vehicles. Tends to glance stuff to death. Sicaran Venator is a different beast, but no less awesome. It's "Shock Pulse" rule means it's better served targeting Super-heavies or tanks with blast weapons. Tends to Penetrate stuff to death. Preference is personal, but go for what themes your list more, i.e. Breachers fit with a Vindicator. Otherwise, go for what fills the gaps best, i.e. taking Guilliman means no Super-heavy of your own, so a Sicaran Venator helps. Edited December 6, 2015 by Caillum Flint13 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flint13 Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 For what it's worth, I've found it better to have a Sicaran Venator and not *need* it than to have a laser vindi and really need to shock pulse a super heavy. Two Str10Ap1 shots are going to do work regardless of what type of armor you're shooting at. Caillum 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 That's what I was thinking too. Plus it basically has PotMS already plugged in, for firing on the move at least. Two shall thus be ordered...for each legion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 (edited) 3 Twin Linked Str9 Ap1 Ordinance is more reliable, imo, and at a much cheaper price. I'd only take the Sicaran Venator if I knew I'd be facing a particularly damaging super heavy... The Sicaran Venator does give you mobility as well (something the Vindis suffer with), and will counter a Typhon quite well if you're worried about one. Edited December 6, 2015 by Ishagu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 The Venator is also ordinance, just not twin linked, but the Ultramarines rules make up for it mostly. The main HH player in my area loves his void-harnessed, flare shielded, ceramite armored spartan, so the higher strength is key for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flint13 Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 (edited) Yeah, you have a much better chance of punching through a flareshield with the Venator. I don't know if I'd call a single extra shot (with a chance of knocking a hullpoint off) with a lower strength and AP than the Venator more reliable. I don't think twin linked is enough to make up for being *way* less mobile and far less effective against AV14, flaresheilds and super heavies, all of which are pretty darn common in 30k. Edited December 6, 2015 by Flint13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 The Venator is also ordinance, just not twin linked, but the Ultramarines rules make up for it mostly. The main HH player in my area loves his void-harnessed, flare shielded, ceramite armored spartan, so the higher strength is key for me. What does he have in the Spartan? You could always assault it? In the last HH game two Termies with Chain Fists destroyed a Spartan and left Angron in the middle of the board with nothing substantial to charge... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 Alpha legion primarch and boy toys of doom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Loss Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 Is this purely to take down the Spartan? If so, take graviton - a notable gentleman on this forum put me onto graviton and I've never looked back since. Even a Venator is unlikely to kill a flare shielded Spartan. A bank of graviton rapiers will kill it in one or two turns reliably depending on how many you have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 If he's running a full unit of Termies I can understand why you'd want to stop it. You going to run Guilliman? If so I wouldn't be worried about Alpharius, he has no chance against Roboute :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 Is this purely to take down the Spartan? If so, take graviton - a notable gentleman on this forum put me onto graviton and I've never looked back since. Even a Venator is unlikely to kill a flare shielded Spartan. A bank of graviton rapiers will kill it in one or two turns reliably depending on how many you have. My strategy against melta immune AV14 vehicles is different from most outlined here, I prefer to grind them down with large volumes of rending/sunder shots. 2 Sicarans with LC sponsons with Tank Hunters, a Deredeo, two Quad Mortars... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Loss Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 Is this purely to take down the Spartan? If so, take graviton - a notable gentleman on this forum put me onto graviton and I've never looked back since. Even a Venator is unlikely to kill a flare shielded Spartan. A bank of graviton rapiers will kill it in one or two turns reliably depending on how many you have. My strategy against melta immune AV14 vehicles is different from most outlined here, I prefer to grind them down with large volumes of rending/sunder shots. 2 Sicarans with LC sponsons with Tank Hunters, a Deredeo, two Quad Mortars... That can work, but it's nowhere near as reliable as graviton. I don't see what you listed killing a Spartan before it delivers its cargo, unless your opponent is silly enough to leave an exposed flank in full sight of your gunline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 Flank the tanks and he has no alternative. The way my rolling works, I can dependably one-shot vehicles if my gun is big enough, so I think I'll stick to the hunters. I'll refuse to take rapiers on the principle that they're the everyman's crutch for the win. Plus I never have points for them, don't like using static artillery, etc...:P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Loss Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 (edited) In which case you have to flank the Spartan before it delivers its cargo; it's a transport vehicle. That isn't easy, particularly if you don't have first turn or if you're playing with the recommended amount of terrain on a board. This is a flare shielded Spartan, not a normal LR or other AV14 superheavy. Players can obviously also take counter measures to prevent being flanked. And once the deathstar has left the Spartan, the tank has essentially done its job. You may only have one round of shooting to take it down, and a lot of boxes need to be ticked for that to be a reliable kill. Anybody can flank and kill a Spartan on turn 3-4. That's a moot point if its cargo is already wreaking havoc in your lines. Hey, if you are able to rely on high rolling to get the job done, go for it. I'll keep using my "crutch for the win". Anyway, it sounds like the Venator is by far the super choice for you as you will be able to flank enemy tanks at speed with ease. Vindicators have to remain stationary to get the most out of them. Edited December 6, 2015 by Marshal Loss Flint13 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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