[HH1.0] 30k Ultramarines tactics

[Charlo]

IF's units are a little lack luster, sure they have Siggy but that's about it. Warders are tough but built for Stone Gauntlet. Templars mince power armour but... What doesn't?

 

Dorn and Guilliman are both great though, but just a Primarch does not a legion make.

 

Better bolters... Woohoo? Nice but not too amazing. That is is for consistent bonuses - oh, and tank hunter heavy squads, which are good, but take up a lot of points once you have a bunker and such for them.

 

Like you said - UM units are insanely good! Plus you ironically get better breachers than fists outside of SG because of the power sword upgrades 

[Frater Cornelius]

Well, we all know that Invictarii are the best Breacher around, even with SG RoW :P

 

But the question was if the UM LA rule is worth building around as opposed to just focusing on their special units.

[caladancid]

I don't think it is worth building around. It isn't a terrible rule, but more of a nice to have when it works out.

 

Speaking of breachers, I am assembling a new squad now, and I was going to have five power swords but I have started wondering if I should go all out with ten. Any thoughts or experiences on loadout?

[Frater Cornelius]

They might work as a solid counter-assault unit or, if you stick them in a Land Raider, as a solid assault unit. However, they will reach a point level where you need to ask yourself why you didn't take Invictarii or Locutarii to begin with. They are a fluffy unit but little beyond that. Personally, I would hold out a little bit and see whether Breachers get a cost reduction in LACAL v2. But if you want them to be fluffy then go 10 men with 10 swords and never look back ;)

[Caillum]

It's been mentioned before already, but you should utilise your Rhinos as the enablers of the Interlocking Tactics for your Tacticals. Building an army around that rule is probably not ideal, but there's ways to gain the benefits.

 

Also, Logos Lectora is awful. Better to have no Rite at all. I'm interested in Vigil Opertii Mission though - I reckon that could be interesting.

[Ishagu]

I agree with the above.

Utilising Rhinos is a very effective way to strengthen the Ultramarines' shooting, and it does make a difference with sufficient volumes of firepower.

 

The Logos presents too many limitations, and plays in a counter productive way from what would effectively utilities the Legion rules, however can be effective in games of 2k+

Edited February 28, 2016 by Ishagu

[shandwen]

The more I look at filling the two required troop slots the more I look at breachers as a squad that can actually complete a task other than shooting other troops.

[Frater Cornelius]

I agree with Ishagu. Below 2k the Logos is hard go use, but when you are going above 2k, then things look differently. BS2 Snapshots is very good to deal with invisible or flying units while Counter Attack is solid for Breachers and Invictarii who get their +1A while denying the enemy their bonuses. It is also solid to finish crippled melee units that have decided to charge you. If you combine it with Big G, when things get rolling. He can add effectiveness and fleixibility to a unit entry and makes Invictarii into Troops, satisfying that third slot.

 

Having said that, you actually need to use your brain here and build a list around it. A defensive and shooty list is what we are looking at, where the lack of alternative deployment options is irrelevant.

[Frater Cornelius]

Did anyone use our Honoured Teletubby yet? I really want him on the front lines for his bubble, but I do not really want to invest in an overpriced Dreadclaw (both in terms of money and point, considering the starting costbof Telemechrus). I have not found a way to give him a Dreadpod, unless I missed something.

[Caillum]

Though they're not listed in the unit entries for Telemechrus, Dracos, Rylanor or the Mhara Gal, they are are still Dreadnoughts, so should be able to take a Dreadnought Drop Pod. Take Orbital Assault, and you have other options too.

 

That's my take on it anyway.

[Ishagu]

I hope they amend that in the new Legion Crusade book. As it stands, rules as written they can't, and I don't want to argue about it in future with someone or potentially invalidate a list.

 

I have my BaC Contemptor - he can be equipped exactly as Honoured Telemechrus. I'll wait to see the next LCAL book, and if not, I'll convert him to a dual CC and Grav Cortus.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Though they're not listed in the unit entries for Telemechrus, Dracos, Rylanor or the Mhara Gal, they are are still Dreadnoughts, so should be able to take a Dreadnought Drop Pod. Take Orbital Assault, and you have other options too.

 

That's my take on it anyway.

Unless it is called out as such, no.

[Flint13]

Hey, look at it this way.

 

Rules like this actually have a halfway decent silver lining.

 

Any bro that wants to argue Telemechrus isn't a dreadnought gives you a good idea of who you might want to avoid the next time you're looking for a game :/

[Frater Cornelius]

Unfortunately, RAI does not matter to quite a few people here - mainly the competitive ones. I might drop FW a line just to be sure.

[Flint13]

I didn't say anything about Rules as Intended. We have pretty much zero clue what Mr. Bligh and company was thinking when they put these rules to print, so we can't really extrapolate much of anything that isn't complete conjecture (and thus not very useful). 

 

I said that if the person you've set up against is going to bring everything to a screeching halt before a game to try and debate that Telemechrus isn't a dreadnought and thus can't take a dreadnought drop pod, then that might be a good indicator of someone to avoid for future games. 

[Hesh Kadesh]

Do Dreadnought Drop Pods have a rule saying 'Dedicated Transport for any Dreadnought', like a Dreadclaw can be a Dedicated Transport for Terminators?

 

If not, no you cannot take a Dreadclaw Drop Pod for. They can always fit within a Dreadclaw which can be purchased from the Fast Attack slots without bending the rules.

 

Just be a decent bloke/lass and ask before the game tournament if you're free to houserule. Instead of autonatically assuming something and blaming the other person for being someone who follows the rules.

 

Like that guy who walked on the grass when the sign said not to, but he did it anyway, and so didn't get Ice Cream for pudding. How terrible people we all were for not walking on the grass, and following the rules.

 

Seriously, its simple. And blissfully ironic/hypocritical.

[Flint13]

Alright dude, I'm done.

 

I have zero problem constructively debating with you or anyone else. We disagree. That's cool, it happens. I can absolutely see your side in this, and after checking out Telemacus and the DDP unit entry, I agree with you and Immer. I was mistaken in my interpretation. 

 

However, the next time you needlessly insult me or any other Frater, or fluff up in a little bravado trip at someone that calls you on it, you're taking a time out.

 

Simple as. 

Edited March 5, 2016 by Flint13

[caladancid]

I am thinking about adding a small allied detachment to my UMs. I want to either use Solar Auxilia or Mechanicum and keep it close to 500 points.

 

My UM right now is the one I talked about previously: Guilliman, Invictarus (in raiders), Locutarus, Deredeo, Sicaran, Sicaran Venator.

 

It seems like mechanicum with the heavy infantry would be the best choice to compliment what I already have, but man I want to find an excuse to use Veletaris Storm Squads haha. Any input is appreciated.

[Ishagu]

Solar Auxilia are absolutely perfect allies for Ultramarines.

 

You can fit a surprisingly large amount of them in 500 points... For example a Hq, a Malcador Infernus with upgrades and a 20 man infantry unit!

[Frater Cornelius]

You could also look into Militia. UM have a solid RoW to support it.

[caladancid]

Solar Auxilia are absolutely perfect allies for Ultramarines.

 

You can fit a surprisingly large amount of them in 500 points... For example a Hq, a Malcador Infernus with upgrades and a 20 man infantry unit!

 

I had completely forgotten about the Infernus.....that would go really well with my current list.

 

Also yes the new RoW looks really good, but it lacks the choom I need from the Veletaris. You may not have noticed, but my UM list has an almost criminal lack of choom.

[Frater Cornelius]

I may very well be called a Heretic, but between Thud Guns, Bolters and Executioners, I do not really notice the lack of Choom compared to efficient anti-tank weaponry :P

[Runefyre]

 

Solar Auxilia are absolutely perfect allies for Ultramarines.

 

You can fit a surprisingly large amount of them in 500 points... For example a Hq, a Malcador Infernus with upgrades and a 20 man infantry unit!

 

I had completely forgotten about the Infernus.....that would go really well with my current list.

 

Also yes the new RoW looks really good, but it lacks the choom I need from the Veletaris. You may not have noticed, but my UM list has an almost criminal lack of choom.

 

Infiltrating melta gun grenadiers is quite useful as well. And access to gorgons at higher points levels.

[caladancid]

I may very well be called a Heretic, but between Thud Guns, Bolters and Executioners, I do not really notice the lack of Choom compared to efficient anti-tank weaponry

 

All joking aside, I feel like I have anti-tank covered with the Sicarans in the list. Thats why the Infernus appealed to me so much, there is nothing in a usual UM list and certainly not in mine that does what the Infernus does. One thing Veletaris can do also is provide anti-horde cover.

 

-Edit

 

And just to be clear, since this is tactics and not the list section, I am more wondering when or if you do think Solar Auxilia need to provide anti-tank to UM.

Edited March 7, 2016 by caladancid

[Frater Cornelius]

Auxilia gets their AT from tanks. Vanquishers and so forth. I wouldn't call that efficient by any means.