Skitarii and Mechanicum HARD DATA review

[MajorNese]

At only 25pts this piece of wargear allows all Cult Mechanicus and Skitarii faction models to failed reroll armour penetration rolls on one target vehicle per turn.

The problem I see with this one - there are not many AT weapons for skitarii/cult using that. Haywire is the most common, followed by grav, those work without armour penetration rolls. The ones benefiting from it: TA (still unreliable), neutron laser (would be very reliable), and occasional exotic ones like the dominus' eradication beamer and kastelan CC attacks. To make TA viable, it would need at least 3 with the scryerskull, meaning 100p only for upgrades, on top of the dominus and the rather expensive rangers.

 

For long range AT, I prefer the arc breachers, accompanied by a dominus, possibly with the cognis relic. For 10 rangers, 3 TA, omnispex and scryerskull, one could take 4 breachers and the cognis relic. Soak up a lot of firepower, heal themselves, and can take flyers out without sacrificing ground based firepower. Hitting on 5+ instead of 4+ is not that bad, considering the number of shots and that the hits almost always strip a hull point, contrary to S6/S7 AA guns or the TA (problematic against AV12, like Hellturkeys or Vendettas).

 

I agree with your view on the TA, it definitely sits between all chairs, dedicated ammunition choices would help a lot. As it is, it's too expensive for maybe doing a bit of everything. Otherwise, our choices are rather specialized and reliable.

[DeStinyFiSh]

 

Hitting on 5+ instead of 4+ is not that bad, considering the number of shots and that the hits almost always strip a hull point, contrary to S6/S7 AA guns or the TA (problematic against AV12, like Hellturkeys or Vendettas).

 

 Even better with the reroll canticles

[MoGuy]

 

 

MOst folk house rule out scouting buildings because it's very silly.

 

Yeah, I know. :/ But I think this is an acceptable kind of silly. I think the War Convocation with its "All Upgrades are free!" and "Plasma doesn't blow you up anymore" rules is on a whole different level of sillyness and people play/accept it anyway. I'll just talk to my opponent if it comes to this. 

 

 

 

Maybe try outflanking. By turn 2, the enemy lines are usually stretched thinner (some move forward, some stay back), so it's easier to find a weak spot.

 

I will try outflanking. Is the Servo-Skull-Upgrade worth it? Acute Senses seems nice and would make the outflanking less risky.

 

Different types of ammo for the TA would be awesome! However, it would probably go up in costs if it would get that buff. Maybe we will see some changes to it when the new Codex hits the shelves?

[MajorNese]

 

I will try outflanking. Is the Servo-Skull-Upgrade worth it? Acute Senses seems nice and would make the outflanking less risky

Have never used one...2/3 of the time, you get the desired result anyway, and even the worse side can be somewhat migitated through the debuff and movement range. Outflanking is always fun, flechetting squads with special/heavy weapons from behind mostly means killing the important guys first. I tend to outflank an awful lot with my 30k Alpha Legion (legion tactics: Infiltrate), and outflanking is more fun/useful than Infiltrate most of the time.

[Cactus]

On the subject of fortifications in the skitarii maniple, I've used the vengeance gatling batteries a couple of times and in my experience they just create a 24" no-go zone. That can be tactically useful but means I rarely get to roll their 20 dice shots and they're quite un-fun.

PS. I've just been catching up on two months of hard data and ran out of likes for the day. Great work, children of the Omnissiah. :tu:

[MajorNese]

More hard data, this time with inquisition allies against orks at 1500p.

 

My list:

2x10 vanguard, 1x plasma each

2x10 vanguard, 3x arc, omnispex

7 rangers, omnispex

1 dragoon

1 neutron/stubber/stubber onager

5 infiltrators

5 ruststalkers

 

Ordo Xenos inquisitor, power armour, conversion beamer

6 carapace armoured acolytes, 4x hellgun, 2x plasma

valkyrie, multiple rocket pods, multilaser

 

his list (roughly):

warboss, bossmob, truck

big CC boys squad, painboy

big ranged boys squad, painboy

3x gretchins squads

gorkanaut/morkanaut (whatever)

lootas

killa kan

 

First of all, this game didn't really go well at first, despite me setting up second and stealing initiative. Lost all but 6 vanguards, the rangers/inquisitor, neutron onager, and acolytes/valkyrie.

 

To not get shot off the board or charged turn one, all but one vanguard squad outflanked (warlord trait - infiltrate 3 units), and the one setting up was inside a ruin without windows on ground level. Intended to move up one level to take arc shots at the gorkanaut, not getting shot myself before they do. But the gentlemen decided otherwise, failing difficult terrain so badly they couldn't even switch levels...twice. The gorkanaut instead ran around killing things left and right. An outflanking vanguard squad, the infiltrator squad and some pot shots against other vanguards. In the end, it lost one HP to conversion beamer, 2 to the charging dragoon, all but one to the vanguard squad from the other side, and the last one in overwatch against said squad's remaining 3 (arc) models.

 

The other board side looked better, though 2 vanguard squads failed to kill the one CC squad, damned be the FnP. Said CC squad subsequently killed one vanguard squad, before the valkyrie arrived and wiped the orks out with big blasts. The remaining arc vanguard killed the lootas, omnispex really helping against going to ground, and finishing off the gorkanaut.

 

In the center, the boss truck advanced once. Then the neutron onager blew it up, and it took the bosses several turns to get close. Stubber and valkyrie templates failed to inflict even one wound, the brokenness of lucky sticks and 2+ armour was in full glory. Good thing the neutron laser was as threatening as ever, so the warboss passed on any of those wounds, decimating the rest of the squad. To end them, the valkyrie hovered up the back, blasting bosses and letting the stormtroopers acolytes do their job. Hellguns and plasma killed several bosses, ruststalkers charged in to mop up. It took the warboss 2 rounds to kill the ruststalkers, though he lost his remaining squad and all but one wound. In the end, the not-blown-up-yet plasma acolyte killed him.

 

Definitely most fun was the dragoon. Was close to the shooty squad, which advanced on the much needed arc squad.

Charged and wiped the shooty squad.

Charged and forced to flee a gretchin squad (to consolidate out of gorkanaut charging range).

Charged and forced to flee a gretchin squad. (both gretchin squads fled off the board)

Charged and took 2 HP off the gorkanaut, but died.

 

Core takeaways:

-conversion beamer techpriest inquisitor rolled phenomenally bad to penetrate, nonetheless killed the killa kan singlehandedly, made one penetrate on the gorkanaut. All in all, staying in the last corner of the board with a few rangers holding an objective (and an omnispex) worked out as planned, not yielding Slay the Warlord while losing all but 6 (out of 40) vanguards

-vanguard is usually devastating, but against big squads with FnP, they alone were by far not enough to wipe out such a squad, and were royally f*** at that range against orks

-valkyrie was worth it, decimating blobs and setting up special weapons where they inflict most damage. Acolytes have their drawbacks, but high number of quite cheap special weapons makes them useful, as well as not suffering a decline in BS in later rounds

-neutron onager was (as it always is) the most reliable way to get things done. Period.

-as long as there are no power claws around, a dragoon can rampage through ork lines almost indefinitely

-ruststalkers (and WS doctrina) work well, even against bossmobs, though the rate of attrition is considerable.

-arc vanguard clearly struggled to get into workable range on the gorkanaut, mostly getting charged the turn after shooting. Arc breachers never had that problem, I still think those superior at the tank hunting role.

 

All in all, I will further examine the options the inquisition codex offers. Though it would take a higher points level to include the usual skitarii core, cult support (arc breacher, dominus) and the inquisitorial detachment. The latter is fun to play and useful, if even a bit overcosted with the models I have around.

[MoGuy]

I wanted to share my experience with the Kastelan Robots.

Two weeks ago I played against a friend of mine who brought his Orks. He had a lot of Mek Guns and the Bubble Shooter, so his back line was well armed.

It was the first time that I fielded the Robots (gave them both Phosphor weapons) and boy oh boy are they amazing!

I just advanced them to a position where they could reach his artillery - given the 36" range on the Heavy Phosphor Blasters that was quite easy - and activated their shooty protocols. Eighteen(!) S6 AP3 Shots (six of which are twin-linked) are just the work of the Omnissiah to behold. Even though I could only wound his Mek Guns on 5+ (they are T7 with 3+ armour which I negated), my robots alone wiped out three or four of them. For the most part he didn't even try to shoot the Kastelans because of their abundance of saves (armour, cover, FNP, Repulsion Shields) and just tried to make his shots count on other units.

All in all I can say that - as far as shooting stuff goes - the Kastelan Robots are very expensive but also very effective!

I have also read that people like to advance with them to get into CC. Have you guys done so? The CC portocols seem really good and even without Power Fists (which I don't think will be taken too often, since the shooty loadout is just plain better) they can hurt. Is it viable to just footslog them foreward whilst shooting stuff, until they reach their designated unit and charge it?

PS. I've just been catching up on two months of hard data and ran out of likes for the day. Great work, children of the Omnissiah.

Approval of our collegues is the oil that keeps our greedy little mechandrites working. I too find this thread extremely usefull and I am always happy when there is a new post. ^^

It took the warboss 2 rounds to kill the ruststalkers, though he lost his remaining squad and all but one wound. In the end, the not-blown-up-yet plasma acolyte killed him.

What the heck?! >_> The Ruststalkers with all their attacks AND AP2 in the second round didn't manage to kill one Warboss? Wow I had thought they would just obliterate him on the charge!

Edit²: Why does this thread always rocket to live when I am about to hit the hay? It's almost two in the morning and now I am (again) stuck here, hitting F5 to see if someone posts more awesome stuff.

[MajorNese]

What the heck?! >_> The Ruststalkers with all their attacks AND AP2 in the second round didn't manage to kill one Warboss? Wow I had thought they would just obliterate him on the charge!

FnP, lucky sticks, good rolls. Challenge took out the alpha, so only 3 ruststalkers left in the 2nd round, and chordclaws always missed. Charge took out 2 or 3 nobs (or whatever the 2W ones are called), so the 2nd round was only against the undamaged warboss and his rerollable FnP. The (usually better) taser infiltrators would have just failed to get through the rerollable 2+...

[Terminus]

I'm a fan of acolytes. 3 plasma gunners and 2 monkeys in a chimera is shooting 3 plasma guns and 2 lascannons out the top, and depending on rolls may well have larger range on those plasmaguns and/or AP1 all around and/or power armor.

[MajorNese]

Yeah, will continue to experiment, though with some better looking models. Rather an artisan techpriest with downsized weapon parts sticking out of his robes, not some monkey.

 

Though the chimera could be reserved for something else. Double heavy bolter with psybolt ammo and 3 heavy bolter combat servitors sound good, should provide some ranged dakka we usually don't have...

[Terminus]

I use enginseers as my "monkeys".

 

As for the double-psybolt chimera, you can still do that with the Acolytes, and it can shoot at different targets. I am not a fan of servitors because you MUST have the Inquisitor in the squad, so you have to be building for that.  You certainly could take 3 plasma acolytes and two plasma servitors for fun and profit.

[Tiger9gamer]

More data... this time I am happy to report a victory against the technologically dubious tau! it was Purge the Xenos at 1,000pts, and finally... I used a different army than my usual unbound rhinos

What I brought:

Dominus Maniple:

Warlord: Techpriest Dominus with conversion field

troop 1: Vanguard with 10 models, x3 arc rifles, omnispex

HS 1: Oneager Icarius

Skitarii Maniple:

troop 2: Vanguard with 10 models, x3 arc rifles, omnispex

troop 3: Vanguard with 10 models, x3 arc rifles, omnispex

Ranger Squad with 5 models

Neutron 1: Neutron Onager

Neutron 1: Neutron Onager

What he brought:

Tau Commander that could fly through the air with the greatest of ease

Ghostkeel with two drones

x2 three man stealth suits with drones

pathfinders in a transport of somekind

Firewarriors in a transport of some kind

_________________________________________________

So I set up to go second and to capitalize on a slight chance of going first, with him counting on turn 1... but I stole it away like a filthy ork!

I scouted so I was spread out because of his ghostkeel's large blast, but I was still close enough to get some shooting off. I had my rangers stand on a tall tower, H/S 2 behind said tower, squad 1 to the right of it. squad 2 and icarius had center while HS 3 and squad 3 held right.

Skitarii Turn 1: Squad 2 unloaded all it could at ghostkeel, the -1 cover knocking down his save to a 3+. They killed both drones and took a wood off the ghost keel itself. Rangers managed to kill a stealth suit and two drones. Neutron 1 shot at both transports, and with a great deal of luck I penetrated and destroyed the first transport while the second got off scot free. The squad coming out were greatly bloodied. I did shoot neutron 3 at the second transport forcing it to jink and blowing off a gun from the front. Squad 3 ran.

Tau Turn 1: feeling the admech fury his ghost keel jumped forward along with his stealth suits, with everything in range shooting at squad 1 and dominus, but luckily only killed all but half. Rangers got killed to two models, but held. Ghostkeel... for some reason jumped closer to squad 2. Also Stealth suits hid behind some terrain so I couldn't shoot him.

Skitarii turn 2: The admech, bloodied but not broken, struck back hard. Rangers hid behind the tower but my army moved up more to get some better shots on the enemy. The Icarius, Squad 2 and 3 open fired and killed the ghost keel with combined fire. Neutron 1 killed the rest of the fire warriors down the table and Neutron 2 blew up the final transport with another shot, killing three of the pathfinders and pinning them.

Tau Turn 2: His flying commander came out of reserve by outflanking and flying up to the rear of my Icarus onager, trying to kill it, but they failed. His stealth suits tried to kill my dominus squad, and almost did! They were left with one vanguard and the priest.

Skitarii Turn 3: The Icarius onager was pissed at how the commander tried to kill him. He turned around and opnened fire with Squad 2, and both of them managed... 1 wound. But! the commander failed his grounding test, fell out of the sky and broke his spine on the ground. Str 9 fall damage against T4... Not a good combo. Squad 3 wiped out the pathfinders and we called it there with a near tabling.

Skitarii victory: 9vps to 0vps! I am so lucky with my luck for this match.

Considerations:

- I never got to use my arc rifles to full effect

-If I had gone 2nd it would have been a lot different because of how squishy the troops are. All probably would have died after some famed tau shooting

- Neutron Onagers are crazy good! they scored 4 victory points by themselves.

-Always plan for the opponent to steal.

[abraxus]

Most likely you didn't reduce the ghost keel to a 3 plus. After factoring in all the mods to that things cover he was likely still at a 1or 2 plus even with your minus 1. Stealth plus shrouded multiply by 2 plus whatever cover actual it was in.

[MoGuy]

Quick rules question guys:

 

The Torsioncanon of the Breachers deals D3 wounds if the initial wound isn't saved. So let's say I roll a 6, thus the target would lose 3 wounds. Can he save those additional 2 wounds or is it an all-or-nothing-type where he either saves the initial wound and nothing happens or he doesn't save it and then loses up to 3 wounds with no further saves allowed?

[Terminus]

 

- I never got to use my arc rifles to full effect

I'm not too surprised this happened with the Dominus Maniple squad. Losing scout and crusader is a brutal blow to Skitarii's chances at getting to a good position.  I think a squad of arc breachers would have served you better here if you wanted a Dominus.

[Tiger9gamer]

@abraxus whoops, good point on the saves... man tau are freaking stupid Even with an omnispex you can't win.

@terminus also yea some breachers or destroyers prbably would have been better buuuuuuuuuut I didnt buy any yet. Because then I would need to buy the cult mechanicus codex too, which I dont wanna do yet. But I believe your right! they would have done better all around, but at the same time it's the bodies that saved my dominus, as I needed the extra cushion of 5 more bodies to go through.

[Terminus]

I feel you on the codex, although at least GW was relatively reasonable on its price and you can find it for $20-something bucks on eBay pretty frequently.  After IG/Stormtrooper split books, I was far the wiser, and didn't buy them new, but rather picked both AM and Skitarii for $30 for both on bartertown. The White Dwarf magazines 68 and 69 also have pretty much all of the rules that you would need, and you could get both issues for probably $5-10 (or just google them... I am not promoting piracy at all here, the whole magazine is just literally the first result when you search "white dwarf 68"). And of course, all that being said, there were some low simmering rumors earlier this year of a combined book with some additional stuff. I have no idea when that's supposed to happen, though.

 

Ablative wounds are always good, of course, but breachers do have T5, 2 wounds, and power armor for whatever it's worth. 

[Tyriks]

Quick rules question guys:

 

The Torsioncanon of the Breachers deals D3 wounds if the initial wound isn't saved. So let's say I roll a 6, thus the target would lose 3 wounds. Can he save those additional 2 wounds or is it an all-or-nothing-type where he either saves the initial wound and nothing happens or he doesn't save it and then loses up to 3 wounds with no further saves allowed?

It reads as all or nothing. If they suffer an unsaved wound, they lose d3 wounds instead - so they've already called to save. It is like they take one wound that does d3 damage, not taking d3 wounds.

[Tiger9gamer]

I feel you on the codex, although at least GW was relatively reasonable on its price and you can find it for $20-something bucks on eBay pretty frequently.  After IG/Stormtrooper split books, I was far the wiser, and didn't buy them new, but rather picked both AM and Skitarii for $30 for both on bartertown. The White Dwarf magazines 68 and 69 also have pretty much all of the rules that you would need, and you could get both issues for probably $5-10 (or just google them... I am not promoting piracy at all here, the whole magazine is just literally the first result when you search "white dwarf 68"). And of course, all that being said, there were some low simmering rumors earlier this year of a combined book with some additional stuff. I have no idea when that's supposed to happen, though.

 

Ablative wounds are always good, of course, but breachers do have T5, 2 wounds, and power armor for whatever it's worth. 

 

 

I may do that, as I dont wanna buy a 33$ book with rumors being around... besides I have all the mechanicus white dwarfs so I have all the rules besides canticles and warlord traits.

 

And I'm still hesitant for the breachers. maybe I need to play them in order to see the glory, and may do that in my next game.

[Terminus]

They aren't amazing due to BS3, but it's a 42" threat range with 6 haywire attacks. Statistically they kill the typical vehicle in a single volley before canticle re-rolls or cover saves.  Destroyers are probably still better, but I'll take arc breachers over arc vanguard without scout.

[MajorNese]

They aren't amazing due to BS3, but it's a 42" threat range with 6 haywire attacks. Statistically they kill the typical vehicle in a single volley before canticle re-rolls or cover saves.  Destroyers are probably still better, but I'll take arc breachers over arc vanguard without scout.

That. The range is something skitarii don't have except for the neutron laser, and the number of shots usually gets things done, or at least presents such a threat that potential targets keep back. Marching vanguard close to a vehicle with enough firepower or passengers is unhealthy, 36" range helps. Also, they may statistically be worse than arc vanguard per points in some mathhammer shenanigans, but the range means they can target vehicles easily, not wasting turns running or shooting something else, and not being exposed to counter-charges. I use the breachers regularly, and they have never let me down so far. Mostly just in a unit of 3, but sometimes increased to 4 with a dominus and cognis relic, enough to down a non-jinking valkyrie per round.

[MoGuy]

Guys, I need some advice again. :)

 

I have two Dragoons and I am thinking about buying a third box to make the Ironstrider, which would enable me to field the formation. Is it worth it though? The Ironstrider seems pretty mediocre and with his basic loadout he isn't even good at hunting tanks (S7, really?) or Elite Units. Upgrade him with the ridiculously expensive Laser Weapon (20 Points for ONE shot!) and he could hurt tanks. But then he is even more expensive than a Breacher and waaaay less effective at hunting tanks, which is a role that we actually don't even need him for since we have so many units and weapons that will melt vehicles. 

 

Buying an Ironstrider just for the formation seems a bit like a waste. Is he any good on his own/outside of the formation? Thanks in advance for your insight! :)

[Dread0]

Somewhere in the dark corners of the B & C forums it was suggested that you can use the torso of the gunner that comes with the Onager to build a second top half so you can run the Strider as either a Dragoon or an Ironstrider. I've yet to get around to doing this to my unbuilt Dragoon so I don't know if it will work but maybe worth looking into if you have the spare torso?

[DeStinyFiSh]

I have 2 of them and I like them, but know that I think of it they have never done somethin realy great

I used them in the past to finish of units (like "Oh, there is a Marine/Daemon/Eldar left, I can either waste my Plasma Vanguard or my Neutron Onager on him or just the Ironstrider").

They also stripped of HP from Rhinos or forced jink saves on Landspeeders or the smaller Elder AVs.

I have never used the formation up to now, so can't say anything about that.

But in general I like more diversity in my army, so just sticking with Dragoons because they are maybe better is just boring, like only playing Vanguard because they perform better than Rangers most of the time etc... Buy one, enjoy the model and see for your self whether it works for you or not

[Dawnstrider]

I haven't used the formation yet, but plan to. I think that formation is meant to be used with a lot of models. I intend to use it as 2 units of 3 dragoons with rifles and one unit of two ballistarii with whatever. This formation to me says "We want you to get first blood and slay the warlord on turn one, or just slay the warlord thereafter". Between Outflank and Acute senses, you can put them where you want them but I think you need a good amount of kits to make this formation work.