Skitarii and Mechanicum HARD DATA review

[DeStinyFiSh]

I'd say for skitarii you can't go wrong making vanilla vanguard. They just kill everything with a T value with handfuls of dice. I like to ask my opponent if I could just roll my wife into thier models, and the ones that fall are kill, but that never seems to fly.

Ruststalkers can do things, but I feel like point for point dragoons and infiltrators do all of those something's better. Also if you run your dragoon solo know that it won't do well. That's like trying to do something with 3 marines and wondering why they don't prefer. Just as a heads up.

As to the discussion earlier on best load outs. I will continue to say vanilla vanguards do so much work. So many wounds, so many dice, for a cheap price. Let other units in your army open up cars, and if you must take arc rifles or plasma limit it to 2 or 1 respectively.

I agree with nearly everything said here.

Vanguard are more powerfull than Rangers. The pure number of shots combined with the 2 ato wounds on 6 is leathal. I myself run at the moment 20 Vanguard and 20 Rangers at 2000 points, but I am looking to buy another starter set and make 10 more Vanguards out of it.

I played my Ruststalkers 4 times now, and they never did something great... but this might also be my own fault, I don't know yet. Infiltrators on the other hand are always amazing, can't go wrong with them. I have 1 more unpainted troop of Ruststalkers and I am planning for 1 more to field the killclade one day

I have to disagree with the solo dragoon. For 45 points he can pop open transports on his own and attack weaker opponents that are not able to hit him back. I also managed to kill 5 man SM combat squads within 1 assault phase. And if there is nothing worth attacking, just run arround for objectives or linebreaker. My dragoons are always worth their money!

With the Vanguard I have to agree. My 10 Vanguard with 3 Plasma and Omnispex are fún, but way to expensive for being so fragile. smaller squats with 1 or 2 special weapons make mire sense. 5 guys +1 Plasma is enough to scare nealry everything. 5 guys + 2 Arc rifles is a cheap but reliable way to threat AV.

Thats at least my experience.

[MajorNese]

Vanguard are more powerfull than Rangers. The pure number of shots combined with the 2 ato wounds on 6 is leathal. I myself run at the moment 20 Vanguard and 20 Rangers at 2000 points, but I am looking to buy another starter set and make 10 more Vanguards out of it.

I played my Ruststalkers 4 times now, and they never did something great... but this might also be my own fault, I don't know yet. Infiltrators on the other hand are always amazing, can't go wrong with them. I have 1 more unpainted troop of Ruststalkers and I am planning for 1 more to field the killclade one day

I have to disagree with the solo dragoon. For 45 points he can pop open transports on his own and attack weaker opponents that are not able to hit him back. I also managed to kill 5 man SM combat squads within 1 assault phase. And if there is nothing worth attacking, just run arround for objectives or linebreaker. My dragoons are always worth their money!

With the Vanguard I have to agree. My 10 Vanguard with 3 Plasma and Omnispex are fún, but way to expensive for being so fragile. smaller squats with 1 or 2 special weapons make mire sense. 5 guys +1 Plasma is enough to scare nealry everything. 5 guys + 2 Arc rifles is a cheap but reliable way to threat AV.

Thats at least my experience.

Same here.

For now, I have 40 vanguard (2x one plasma each, 2x 3 arc + omnispex), and only 10 rangers. Rangers are only effective against 4+ armour, and having one squad with range isn't a total waste, they can hold an objective. Vanguard is so damn good, bare squads are always worth it, adding one plasma is just to increase the threat level and getting through 2+ armour chars.

As for the ruststalkers, they are scary IF they get into combat, so they tend to boil down to a distraction unit. Infiltrators could be better at that, will add another squad soon and post the data.

Single dragoons are always worth it. They are so dirt cheap (one dragoon = one hammernator), not earning their points back is pretty hard to do. When they are still out of range for charging, I tend to use them as cover for single Onagers. +3" means running gets them in front of the onager after it fires, and either the enemy wastes his AT firepower on a 45p unit (with cover save), or he potentially wastes it at the onagers cover save, or ignores a unit that will rip something apart next round. Keeping one or more units alive is easiest with threat saturation, and dirt cheap threats are great at that.

[MoGuy]

Alright, I have added to my army two Dragoons and another squad of Infiltrators (now having 10 Infiltrators). I'll post my experience with them.

 

However, I have another question. With the Deathwatch Overkill Box now out, we also have the rules for the models (rules are here: http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2016/02/bombshell-genestealer-cult-40k-rules-are-amazing.html). I love the look of the Genestealers but I don't want to start a Tyranid Army just to take them. Fortunately, they can be taken as a seperate formation/army which brings strong CC units and potent psykers to the table. My question now is: Would this new formation work well with our tin men?

 

To break it down: The formation is called "Ghosar Quintus Broodkin" and clocks in at 600 points. Every model has stealth and infiltrate. Additionally when they are deployed via Infiltration, their bigger units can be deployed up to 1" away form an enemy unit, no matter if in LOS or not AND they can charge TURN 1(!) and gain shrounded until the start of the second turn. 

 

I think this could be extremely powerful for the Ad Mech since A) we don't have any psykers and B) this would give us reliable CC units who will make it into CC pretty much always. 

[MajorNese]

Another game, but nothing out of the ordinary happened. Points to be examined further:

-ruststalkers soaked up a lot of fire, but failed a charge so they didn't kill anything, again. They are target number one, I'll try replacing them with more infiltrators, as those are more resilient, but kill the same things except for AV13 and AP2

-rangers again did nothing due to range, but were valuable holding objectives. Will try downsizing the squad and including transuranic arquebuses for the points instead, giving them the range to always participate in the game

-vanguard tend to get into CC quite often, but the taser regularly fails killing 3+ or 4+ armour. Will try out power swords, as wounding an enemy with -1T still works.

 

As for the broodkin, I do see some interesting points. They all infiltrate, so not being battle bros doesn't matter most of the time. More importantly, they build up pressure from the first turn, as being able to charge turn 1 and being well protected (especially with numbers) is quite a threat. The gained time would enable vanguard and CC skitarii to get into range and do their thing, as range is pretty much the downside of most skitarii.

[MagicHat]

I would be worried about going second or against a force with flamers with the cult, but I do wanna try it.

 

Played a 1000 points tournament recently, seniors were expected to play nicer lists, beginners could do whatever.

Had a regular maniple with full arc vanguards, 8 rangers with 1 trans. Arq. ruststalkers and a dominus maniple. Dominus with ray, 9 vanguard with 2 plasma and icarus onager. And a vengeance battle cannon.

 

First game against a seniors hunter cadre tau, lost with 19-1. Broadsides nuked my stalkers, and I did not know about his run/turboboost, so deployed poorly. Dominus tanked an amazing number of wounds though, until some kroot outflanked behind the squad. Still reached the enemy and killed a unit of firewarriors.

 

Second game, IG beginner with Knight paladin, manticore and eradicator LR. Oh joy. Thought I would die again due to little area and LOS blocking terrain but the TO gave him the "pro" tip of shooting my vengeance. Wasted rounds of knight and manticore fire on it while my infantry closed in and butchered his infantry and tanks. Whittled down the Knight last with arc and dominus ray and melee.

Third game against orks with gorkanought, battlewagon trukk and some infantry. Insanenly bad luck on his side, good luck on mine. Arc vanguard alpha with shrouded and nightfight in forest and dominus with his unit kept my force alive.

 

I think the transuranic shot 8-9 rounds and accompished nothing once more. I hereby joins the 10 naked rangers with omnispex club.

Vengeance batteries are an amazing noobhammer. Very tough for their points and people can waste large amounts of shots of shots on them. Plus everyone likes large blasts.

Ruststalkers did take down a manticore and gorkanought. Will keep using them.

Wish the onager came with omnispex, like the fluff said. Only took down a single piranha, but there were no targets in tje other armies.

 

In conclusion, a Knight torso on onager legs looks really really dumb and not cool like I had hoped.

Edit: wrote this on a phone, apologies for any spellöng errors☺

[MoGuy]

 

 

I think the transuranic shot 8-9 rounds and accompished nothing once more. I hereby joins the 10 naked rangers with omnispex club.

 

Yah, the sniper rifle is just bad for its points. Naked Rangers with Omnispex are pretty solid. 

 

Guys, I have another question. As I have two Dragoons I am wondering how to field them. Footslogging both along the rest is an option but would you recommend them as two individual squads or as one squad? How many Dragoons would you take? I obviously won't buy six Dragoons but maybe a third one. However, I rarely see them being fielded as more than two. Has anyone experience with taking them to shield stuff? Well they aren't really a tough shield but the 5+ cover is nice. I am trying to somehow get my Vanguards chances of survival up (without taking transports). 

[DeStinyFiSh]

I have 2 Dragoons so far and I am running them as 2 seperate units and let them run up the flanks. I am so happy with the performance that I have 2 more waiting for some colour

Never used them as a shield so far. They are just very flexible and can hurt a lot for just 45 points a piece. Tie up opponents in CC, open transports, grab objectives, get linebreaker. My oponents hate them

I will see when I field 2x2 of them. I am a little worried that they might perform the same way the single Dragoons does for double the point costs...

[SydonianDragoon404]

I typically use Dragoons (a squad of 2) in the War Convocation as a unit that moves forward with the other fast units in the army (sicarians and the Knight) to draw attention, force flanks, and make my opponent fire at them instead of my more useful units in the army. If they make it combat, great, if not they likely drew a ton of fire. Unless I'm fighting Tau. Opponents tend to either be scared of them and shoot them immediately or ignore them entirely. Both of these work great for me. 

[MajorNese]

 

Guys, I have another question. As I have two Dragoons I am wondering how to field them. Footslogging both along the rest is an option but would you recommend them as two individual squads or as one squad?

Always seperately. They are not exactly resilient, any overkill (from for example a lascannon squad) would be wasted, instead of destroying the 2nd dragoon in that unit. Also, having 2 seperate units lets you threaten and attack 2 targets at the same time. One has always been enough for me to kill a rear AV10 3HP vehicle. Destroying 2 of those per turn is better than overkilling one.

 

And yes, I have used them as shield several times. Until now, I only have one Onager, so no 4++. Letting the dragoon run up the same lane as the onager means the enemy AT there can only target one of 2 walkers. If the dragoon can run, he can provide a cover save for the onager after it shoots. So either the enemy wastes firepower killing a 45p walker (with cover save) ignoring the neutron onager, or he potentially wastes firepower on the onager's cover save while letting the dragoon get closer to hit stuff.

[Dread0]

Played my Dark Eladar friend last night at 1000 pts. I took the Dominus Maniple (1 Plas Cal & Omnispex on Vanguard and Icarus Array on the Onager) alongside a CAD of Ultramarines (Lib, Scouts, Whirligig, Dev Squad and Storm Talon).

 

He had 2 units of Jet Bikes, 4 Venoms with Kabalites, Archon HQ and 2 Razorwing Flyers

 

It was the first time I’ve taken the Dominus Maniple and I loved it. It’s a great way to run Skitarii at low points and the re-roll to hit rules is great (when I remembered to use it).

 

It has been said before that the Icarus Array is great against DE so I won’t bang on about that. But not only did it kill both of his flyers by turn 3 but it forced one to jink on arrival (thanks to the interceptor rule on the Autocannon) which meant that they sum damage of those 2 units (130 pts each) did one hull point/ knocked off a Cognis Stubber on the Onager (IWND fixed the hull point).

 

The Tech Priest was hiding with the Onager to fix it and counter charge any bikes that might try to get fresh with my Vanguard. One unit of 5 charge them Turn 2 after I had killed 1 of them in my Turn 1 shooting and 1 in overwatch. I was all prepped for my Tech Priest to charge in if my Vanguard could just survive! But not only did they survive, they drew combat with 2 dead models each (-1 toughness really helped). With one bike left it was easy for my Tech Priest to charge in and clean up.

 

After that the Onager went around blowing up Venoms and the Vanguard (now running with the Tech Priest) went hunting the blokes that jumped out.

 

It was close on objectives as he got pretty lucky with a 3 out of 3 score on his first turn but ended up 9-7 to me but by the end of turn 4 he had a total of 4 Kabalites left on the board.

 

Lessons learnt:

 

·         Icarus Array + Dark Eldar = your opponents tears

 

·         The threat of fire from Vanguard is enough to stop an opponent using hit and run. Great for holding bikes close in combat while a better CC unit comes in to finish them off.

 

·         I usually take 3 Plas on the Vanguard but the one Plas that I took this time was just as effective. I always say the trick with DE is to keep them jinking and this is some of what the Vanguard did (S 7 AP 2 will do that).

 

All in all a great game and a good 2^nd win for the plucky Skitarii.

 

One question I do have is what Army Rules to use with the Dominus Maniple. I used the Skitarii Doctrinas as the box they came in says “Start Collecting Skitarii” but with the Tech Priest would it be the Canticles?

[MagicHat]

All Skitarii on the board have Doctrinas, while the Dominus would use his canticles. Dominus does not benefit from doctrinas, skitarii only bain the morale and cover one if the dominus is in the unit.

[MoGuy]

Thank you for your answeres! I'll stick with my two Dragoons for now. :)

 

However, I am looking at terrain (Morrs Garden looks amazing in terms of quantity of terrain per € spend) and remembered that I have never seen someone use the fortifications when playing Ad Mech. But the Aegis Defense-Line looks amazing and is really cheap (both in money and points). Is it effective for our Tin Men? Well, not for the Vanguard ofc, since they want to get close, but maybe for the Rangers and Destroyers/Breachers? What do you guys think? :D

[MajorNese]

 

 

I think the transuranic shot 8-9 rounds and accompished nothing once more. I hereby joins the 10 naked rangers with omnispex club.

 

Yah, the sniper rifle is just bad for its points. Naked Rangers with Omnispex are pretty solid.

This will be the next thing I'll try out - improving rangers. I've played the 10 rangers with omnispex several times, and only one time (against fire warriors/crisis drones) did they actually do something useful besides holding an objective. Originally I intended to try out downsizing the squad and including arquebuses for the points, but that doesn't seem overly effective, given the hard data here. As rangers tend to sit back and hold an objective, increasing the range seems necessary, the 30" are rarely sufficient when sitting in the back. So, as I'm building some Inquisition allies (more techpriest conversions, yay!!!), I'll have an ordo xenos inquisitor with conversion beamer join a minimum sized ranger squad. 72" range, S8-S10 above 18", and cover reducing omnispex seem a useful way to make backfield rangers do something while holding an objective, playing ablative wounds with Ld10. It's a bit over the original 130p, but at 42"-72", that's neutron laser grade firepower at -1 cover.

 

 

But the Aegis Defense-Line looks amazing and is really cheap (both in money and points). Is it effective for our Tin Men? Well, not for the Vanguard ofc, since they want to get close, but maybe for the Rangers and Destroyers/Breachers? What do you guys think?

For the points, it's great. There are quite a few AP4 weapons out there, it would help against those, but otherwise the cover save is the same as the armour save (rangers/destroyers). What's more useful, it can be placed at a better position than the original terrain, so the unit can hold an objective while still having cover. And the quad gun is a good way to increase anti air without using the dedicated AA onager, which sucks against ground targets. There are some possible upgrades, but I haven't looked into those.

[MoGuy]

 

 

There are quite a few AP4 weapons out there, it would help against those, but otherwise the cover save is the same as the armour save (rangers/destroyers).

 

Yes, but my Destroyers are very often being shot at with S8 AP3 Weapons and stuff like that, so the Defense Line seems pretty solid, considering that it doesn't block LOS like most ruins do, thus it does not limit the threat-bubble of the Kataphrons.

 

 

 

There are some possible upgrades, but I haven't looked into those.

 

Just the standard upgrades like Tank Traps and stuff. The barbed wire seems pretty solid too, since it can be placed up to 6" from the Defenseline and is dangerous terrain for Infanterie.

[Dread0]

Why not try rangers with Arc Rifles? The Galvanic Rifle can glance AV 10 on 6's which can be useful and the Arc Rifle isn't a bad anti infantry weapon given it's S6 rapid fire.

[MajorNese]

Why not try rangers with Arc Rifles? The Galvanic Rifle can glance AV 10 on 6's which can be useful and the Arc Rifle isn't a bad anti infantry weapon given it's S6 rapid fire.

My main problem is lacking range for the squad that camps at the rearmost objective. When 30" doesn't reach anything, 24" won't do it either, but 72" should be enough. That's why I considered the 60" arquebuses first, but the hard data speaks against them, so I'll try the conversion beamer.

[Dread0]

 

Why not try rangers with Arc Rifles? The Galvanic Rifle can glance AV 10 on 6's which can be useful and the Arc Rifle isn't a bad anti infantry weapon given it's S6 rapid fire.

My main problem is lacking range for the squad that camps at the rearmost objective. When 30" doesn't reach anything, 24" won't do it either, but 72" should be enough. That's why I considered the 60" arquebuses first, but the hard data speaks against them, so I'll try the conversion beamer.

 

 

Fair point, I tend to use Onagers or a Vindicare for babysitting backfield objectives. I don't like the idea of shots that could be fired going to waste. Conversion beamer would work very well though.

[MajorNese]

Another Onager or a vindicare would work for that too, yes. In my case it's rather personal preference, as I tend to convert lots of techpriests, and the conversion beamer loadout fits the AdMech theme well, while being useful in that specific situation. Points and wound count stay approximately the same, just the firepower shifts from 30" AP4 to a long-range beam artillery.

[DeStinyFiSh]

Why not try rangers with Arc Rifles? The Galvanic Rifle can glance AV 10 on 6's which can be useful and the Arc Rifle isn't a bad anti infantry weapon given it's S6 rapid fire.

My main problem is lacking range for the squad that camps at the rearmost objective. When 30" doesn't reach anything, 24" won't do it either, but 72" should be enough. That's why I considered the 60" arquebuses first, but the hard data speaks against them, so I'll try the conversion beamer.

I would try some different things here.

First of all, I like the TA because it looks cool . Sometimes you get lucky and kill a special weapon traight away, force an AV to jink or strip of a hullpoint here and there... but it is nothing to rely on, thats for sure. Try them a few times. I like them and my opponents try to avoid getting into sight which can give you a little more field control.

I think Rangers are better used in a more agressive was. move through cover is great to get arc rifles in safely range and 15" rapidfire range is nice, too.

For backfield objective camping you have Onagers, Dragoons, Servitors and (if you field one) Knight Crusaders.

[MajorNese]

 I think Rangers are better used in a more agressive was. move through cover is great to get arc rifles in safely range and 15" rapidfire range is nice, too.

 

 

For backfield objective camping you have Onagers, Dragoons, Servitors and (if you field one) Knight Crusaders.

Onagers would work, yes, if I had more models. Knight Crusader, maybe, but I don't play knights. Dragoons - no, they want to punch things and take otherwise hard to reach objectives, and those tend to be at the other end of the board. Servitors are the primary long-range AT (breachers), so they have other priorities, moving out if necessary instead of holding that objective. Rangers might be useful elsewhere, not exactly bad with precision shots and double tap, but at 15" range, vanguard are simply better, and I have lots of those. So yeah, a min-sized ranger squad will be holding my backfield objective in the foreseeable future, and get some conversion beamer artillery to actually threaten something. Will see how it works and report, that's why we are here after all...

[DeStinyFiSh]

 

...Dragoons - no, they want to punch things and take otherwise hard to reach objectives, and those tend to be at the other end of the board...

 

Sorry, I meant Ironstriders...

[MoGuy]

Alright, so today I bought myself an Aegis Defense Line and I was tinkering with some "tactics". Here are my thoughts:

 

1.) I love me some Infiltrators but their problem is that they are so paper thin and if I infiltrate them close to the enemy they will just attract even more fire than they would if I just scuttle them foreward with my Vanguards. If I set up the Aegis as a neutral terrain, I could set it up 18" away from the opponent's deployment zone and infiltrate my Infiltrators there. They will have a 3+ cover with 5++ FNP which makes them pretty tough. I could even let them go to ground if :cuss hits the fan really bad, giving them 2+ cover. Since they can't charge on the first turn anyway this might actually be quite viable. 

 

2.) I could (obviously) protect a certain path or an area in my backline where I can drop my Rangers and Destroyers/Breachers. 

 

3.) Using Ammo Boxes, I could reroll Gets Hot results of my Destroyers and/or Vanguards. For that I would deploy my shields in a sicle-shape on some central area. With scout I could probably reach this area in my first turn with my Vanguards, giving them a strong position and negating the risk of them blowing themselves up with Plasma Guns. 

 

4.) Since the Skitarii Maniple allows us to bring a fortification, the Aegis Line hilariously also benefits from the Scout rule. At least I think it does, as the rules say that "each model" in the formation benefits from those rules. Nowhere is written that those have to be certain types of models like infantery etc.

[mmimzie]

Alright, so today I bought myself an Aegis Defense Line and I was tinkering with some "tactics". Here are my thoughts:

1.) I love me some Infiltrators but their problem is that they are so paper thin and if I infiltrate them close to the enemy they will just attract even more fire than they would if I just scuttle them foreward with my Vanguards. If I set up the Aegis as a neutral terrain, I could set it up 18" away from the opponent's deployment zone and infiltrate my Infiltrators there. They will have a 3+ cover with 5++ FNP which makes them pretty tough. I could even let them go to ground if hits the fan really bad, giving them 2+ cover. Since they can't charge on the first turn anyway this might actually be quite viable.

2.) I could (obviously) protect a certain path or an area in my backline where I can drop my Rangers and Destroyers/Breachers.

3.) Using Ammo Boxes, I could reroll Gets Hot results of my Destroyers and/or Vanguards. For that I would deploy my shields in a sicle-shape on some central area. With scout I could probably reach this area in my first turn with my Vanguards, giving them a strong position and negating the risk of them blowing themselves up with Plasma Guns.

4.) Since the Skitarii Maniple allows us to bring a fortification, the Aegis Line hilariously also benefits from the Scout rule. At least I think it does, as the rules say that "each model" in the formation benefits from those rules. Nowhere is written that those have to be certain types of models like infantery etc.

MOst folk house rule out scouting buildings because it's very silly.

[MajorNese]

About that...

 

1) Maybe try outflanking. By turn 2, the enemy lines are usually stretched thinner (some move forward, some stay back), so it's easier to find a weak spot. Infiltrators in a central position act as a fire magnet and simply die, but exploiting weak spots will work far longer. And using Aegis for them seems redundant, as they could infiltrate into any terrain not close enough to the enemy, and get that 3+ anyway.

 

2) Seems useful. From experience, rangers could use being in the right spot to cover certain ways of approach, ideally holding an objective, and having cover there. As the ranger gun is not exactly overkill, one guy could use a quad gun. Cheap, helps out against flyers without a dedicated AA onager, and can fire at ground targets without problem.

 

3) Vanguards still have a very low range, so I don't think anyone would go near that while plasma vanguard sit in it. Destroyers would work better though, attracting typically more fire and still only having a 4+ armour, that usually doesn't take long to crack, cover keeps them alive for a while.

[Greyspell]

If you're allied with Cult Mechanicus then the Scryerskull Perspicatus offers great synergy with the Transuranic Arquebus armed Rangers.

 

At only 25pts this piece of wargear allows all Cult Mechanicus and Skitarii faction models to failed reroll armour penetration rolls on one target vehicle per turn.

 

The real problem with the TA (for 25 pts each) is that they are a little schizophrenic in what they want to do. On one hand they are designed for punching through vehicles and on the other they are for picking out special marines (AP3) out of a unit - but they don't really excel at either.

 

What they actually need is two or three firing modes (like vindicare ammo). They could have an armourbane round such as 'depleted uranium round' that also grants AP1 vs vehicles or even better, some kind of lance effect.

 

A second firing mode could be a poisonous AP3 round or something like a two shot firing mode.

 

They could even throw in a third called brush load that fires like a flamer.