Dark Angels rumors. update: Codex leaks, pg 28

[twopounder]

 

 

 

 

Check the wording. It says 'Roll to Hit as normal, but resolve the attack at x2S AP2.' That 'but' excludes the +2S.

Exactly

Wait, how so?

The weapon has two profiles

 

str +2 ap3

 

OR INSTEAD

 

attacks are made at x2 ap2.

 

It's literally saying "instead of the above profile, get x2 strength and ap2"

Now here is the thing. If you look at the new codex, it's not a new weapon profile. The +2 should still be conferred upon the weapon just like how furious charge would

 

 

You have to read the rules dude.

 

"When a model equipped with this weapon makes its close combat attacks, it can choose to instead INSTEAD <<<< Keyword!!! make a single smite attack. If it does so, roll to hit as normal, but resolve the Attack at strength x2, Ap2

 

Ergo, INSTEAD of the profile above, use this profile.

 

You're giving up all your str +2 ap3 attacks for a single str8 ap2 attack.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

 

You are asking the same question in two different threads and getting several replies from several people on how is S8 and not S10. Now, will you stop only when someone says S10 for you to be happy or will you accept that it's S8?

Sorry Lucifer, I wanted to ask for More forumer "s opinion on this. Again, Sorry if it offended you.

 

I'm actually interested in how the rule works. It says attacks will be resolved at str 8, but would modifiers still apply?

 

 it's simply because it's spam.You ask the same question several times and always got the same answer. It looked like it wasn't to ask for more opinions it was looking like spamming the question until someone validate your opinion, despite the explanations always reinforced that Smite is a special attack you can do with the mace that replaces the mace normal profile.

[Olataro]

 

 

 

You are asking the same question in two different threads and getting several replies from several people on how is S8 and not S10. Now, will you stop only when someone says S10 for you to be happy or will you accept that it's S8?

Sorry Lucifer, I wanted to ask for More forumer "s opinion on this. Again, Sorry if it offended you.

 

I'm actually interested in how the rule works. It says attacks will be resolved at str 8, but would modifiers still apply?

it's simply because it's spam.You ask the same question several times and always got the same answer. It looked like it wasn't to ask for more opinions it was looking like spamming the question until someone validate your opinion, despite the explanations always reinforced that Smite is a special attack you can do with the mace that replaces the mace normal profile.

I didn't realise it was spam. Anyway I have apologised and let us move on.

[JJD]

I can see now the 'instead' changes thing. I guess the confusion was because last time I'm sure smite had its own profile (I could be wrong) where as this time at first read it looked more like a special rule on top of the profile. I can live with S8

[SvenONE]

Yeah, S8 swings at initiative? on a 2+/3++ T5 model?  There isn't much more that a S10 will wound that much easier in this game than that.  There isn't an infantry model in the game who attacks with that profile IIRC that isn't a Monstrous Creature.  DWK got better without going up in cost.  You'll still need to give them like a Company Master in Artificer or deliver them in a landraider so they don't charge into terrain, but I'm digging it.

 

After digesting this overnight and on my commute to work this morning.  I'm just so excited, this book is so good.  It's really unfortunate GW decided to go the route it did with Deathwing.  To me it seems as they are trying [forcing] to make DW/RW work.  Why they wrote rules for SFU that allow terminators to deploy embarked, but omitted that same clause in our rules we'll never know.  At least give us an improved ability for scatter, like a re-roll or we only scatter 6", but it's clear that GW wants you to run Ravenwing if you're running Deathwing.

 

It might be alarmist, but I don't think I'll ever feel the need to run Deathwing as a primary force, there's too much good elsewhere in this book, and I have to say that must be what GWs view is of DW.  I think Master Avoghai may have said it in another thread elsewhere, but it seems that GW felt it was an accident that we were able to run pure DW.  They obviously feel that should be the Grey Knights' gig (or now the Ultramarines).  The removal of Belial's force org changing ability is a pretty big hit.  Given his cost not changing, it looks as though they feel that +1A and a re-roll of challenges makes up for the lost ability to make terminators objective secured.  GW's Marginality at its best.

 

 +1A or not, he's really just a regular ol' Company Master in Terminator armor but instead just gets shafted with a warlord trait whereas the CM can roll (or in some cases re-roll).

 

The one thing I'm a bit suspicious of is our new Interromancy tree.  There's a lot of Focussed Witchfire in there which means that everything is really 1WC higher than it really is.  I'm going to look a little further at lunch to get a better assessment of it.

[Ishagu]

I think some of the individual units are superb now. I have no interest at all in the unique detachment types as a CAD allows you to make a strong, balanced force.

 

-Samael and Ravenwing Knights or standard bikes, re rolling to jink; fantastic! Add Samael's warlord trait and Scout, and suddenly you have a high threat, survivable unit.

 

-Interrogator Chaplain, Mace of Redemption with Deathwing Knights in a Landraider Crusader. This is now a premier assault unit. It's refreshing to have t5 Terminators who can clear out mobs and power armour at a good initiative, and are able to smash and hit hard to deal with elites.

 

-Grav Devastators/Tacticals in drop pods. Finally gives DA Alpha strike capabilities to match some of the other books. This is a massive boost to the codex.

 

-Flyers and Skimmers are now competitive. The jets got a nice boost, Dark Talon especially is quite threatening. The landspeeder vengeance is now usable thanks to the added range and hull point.

 

 

I'd have no interest in running a dedicated RW or DW force as the army offers so much more when it's utilised fully!

[twopounder]

Yeah, S8 swings at initiative? on a 2+/3++ T5 model?  There isn't much more that a S10 will wound that much easier in this game than that.  There isn't an infantry model in the game who attacks with that profile IIRC that isn't a Monstrous Creature.  DWK got better without going up in cost.  You'll still need to give them like a Company Master in Artificer or deliver them in a landraider so they don't charge into terrain, but I'm digging it.

 

After digesting this overnight and on my commute to work this morning.  I'm just so excited, this book is so good.  It's really unfortunate GW decided to go the route it did with Deathwing.  To me it seems as they are trying [forcing] to make DW/RW work.  Why they wrote rules for SFU that allow terminators to deploy embarked, but omitted that same clause in our rules we'll never know.  At least give us an improved ability for scatter, like a re-roll or we only scatter 6", but it's clear that GW wants you to run Ravenwing if you're running Deathwing.

 

It might be alarmist, but I don't think I'll ever feel the need to run Deathwing as a primary force, there's too much good elsewhere in this book, and I have to say that must be what GWs view is of DW.  I think Master Avoghai may have said it in another thread elsewhere, but it seems that GW felt it was an accident that we were able to run pure DW.  They obviously feel that should be the Grey Knights' gig (or now the Ultramarines).  The removal of Belial's force org changing ability is a pretty big hit.  Given his cost not changing, it looks as though they feel that +1A and a re-roll of challenges makes up for the lost ability to make terminators objective secured.  GW's Marginality at its best.

 

 +1A or not, he's really just a regular ol' Company Master in Terminator armor but instead just gets shafted with a warlord trait whereas the CM can roll (or in some cases re-roll).

 

The one thing I'm a bit suspicious of is our new Interromancy tree.  There's a lot of Focussed Witchfire in there which means that everything is really 1WC higher than it really is.  I'm going to look a little further at lunch to get a better assessment of it.

 

Well, interromancy depends on the army. Against Eldar - basically useless. Against tau - might as well smash your opponents models with a hammer (no, do don't that, it was a joke). Honestly, of the things I don't like about 7th, the way Psychic powers are handled is one of them (pyskers and challenges are my top two gripes with this edition).

 

I think deathwing was one of those things that we were always going to lose, but somehow never did. Honestly, in reflection, I'm surprised it wasn't spammed out faster. Yeah, it was our thing, maybe even more than ravenwing. But ultimately, terminators impress new players and that's the only player GW really cares about in the end. Even so, the deathwing we can field are still very powerful and the codex as a whole is very, very good. As the Punisher would say, I'm not one to look a gift horse in the mouth.

[Caldria]

Just wondering, does this work?

Deathwing Knight's smite attack brings them down to 1 Sx2 ap2 attack each. Sticking Ezekial with them, now that he gives +1 attack instead of WS. Would each knight then have 2 Sx2 ap2 attacks each? (Or is the +1 attack from Ezekial applied before the smash modifier, like the +1 bonus attack from charging)

[cielaq]

I don't think so. Ezekiel simply adds +1 to A characteristic, while Smite makes you perform 1 attack, it does not reduce your A characteristic.

[Caldria]

Right ok, pity haha.

[SvenONE]

Ok, here's what I'll say about Deathwing after giving it some thought.  

 

In 6th edition, an all terminator (meaning no Dedicated transports) was basically a gimped list.  Deep Striking every squad on the board was a great way to mishap.  It was also a great way to be shot to pieces, and assaulted without getting the bonus of a charge.  So I'm not really sure where all the Turn 1 DS ire comes from.  All of the best DW lists weren't good because they had Turn 1 Deep Strike and terminators, they were good because they usually called for TWO OR MORE Deathwing Land Raiders.  

 

For a meager 150 points or so, you can bring a Ravenwing Attack Squadron formation that has 6 relentless grav gun shots.  That's not a bad deal.  Now that we can buy a Land Raider without being forced to take DW vehicle, that combined with the savings of a terminator squad, we're talking about 50 points or so extra that we wouldn't have had in 6th edition codex.

 

Give it time, it'll require a different playstyle, but lets be real, DW have a far greater chance now than they did before.  Does anyone really want to go back to 6th edition DW?

[Chaplain Lucifer]

Smite is a special attack where you trade all your attacks for just one, so in this case, Ezekiel won't help. Still, Ezekiel seems like a good character to hang out with the Knights (and other CC oriented units)

[DarkProdigy]

Yeah set modifiers always go last, in this case smite sets attacks to 1 (big bummer imho), buuut... that doesn't mean there isn't another cool place for Zeke. Deathwing Command Squad with deathwing banner for +1 attacks, Zeke for another +1, and maybe if you bring him in our librarius conclave so you have a few libbies to fish more rolls in interromancy (and back to divination when you get the spells you want), you can cast rage on that squad too. Give em all hammers and a cyclone and now you've got termies with 6? hammer attacks on the charge each. Heck give one of those extra librarians the mace of redemption and stick him to the squad too. Oof.

 

Edit: I might see if I can find an efficient way to pull this off with lightning claws actually - another +1 for paired weapons, either with an int-chap for hatred or swap a divination power for prescience on one of the libbies and now that's 7 ap3 at initiative swings per termi with reroll hits AND shred for reroll wounds.

[Warhead01]

Question regarding Assault squads. They can take one Eviscerator for every 5 models. 

Is the Eviscerator the two handed chain sword in the new assault squad box?

Thank you.

[Dread_Hospitaller]

I think you are all missing the most important buff in this book.

 

EZEKIEL'S SWORD IS NO LONGER TWO HANDED!

 

YEAHHHHHHHHHHHNNNGGG

[Frater Cornelius]

Question regarding Assault squads. They can take one Eviscerator for every 5 models. 

Is the Eviscerator the two handed chain sword in the new assault squad box?

Thank you.

Yes, it is. It is basically a two-handed Chainfist.

[DarkProdigy]

Gah, yet again DA librarians cannot take a stormshield. I was hoping this would be rectified with some streamlining between ours and the new C:SM books, but it looks like GW is intent on not letting that combination fly. I always assumed this was due to the fact that we had divination and combined with precognition a rerollable 3++ was too strong... but SM has divination now, AND biomancy. Is there a fluff reason perhaps that I am missing?

[Warhead01]

I think it will come down to playstyle more then anything else. I didn't even give thought to a storm shield for  a Librarian. I plan to attach mine to solid squads who tan take a hit, keeping him from harm while he does his thing.  

[Dread_Hospitaller]

Problem is, you can't hide characters in a dwk squad for +1 toughness since the fortress of shields rule apparently requires independent characters have storm shields.

 

Edit: huh, it seems like librarians are the ONLY independent characters unable to get storm shields when in terminator armor.

[Warhead01]

I was only thinking about Deathwing squads. 

[Tanyr]

Problem is, you can't hide characters in a dwk squad for +1 toughness since the fortress of shields rule apparently requires independent characters have storm shields.

 

Edit: huh, it seems like librarians are the ONLY independent characters unable to get storm shields when in terminator armor.

 

While you can't give him a stormshield, he should be able to benefit indirectly due to the squads majority toughness being 5, no? If so, while it's far from being as good as t5 himself, it would still help against shooting. My apologies if i'm mistaken, i'm a bit out of the loop on 7th.

[Syphid]

Problem is, you can't hide characters in a dwk squad for +1 toughness since the fortress of shields rule apparently requires independent characters have storm shields.

 

Edit: huh, it seems like librarians are the ONLY independent characters unable to get storm shields when in terminator armor.

 

Wait, Interrogator Chaplains can get storm shields in terminator armor??

[Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra]

 

Problem is, you can't hide characters in a dwk squad for +1 toughness since the fortress of shields rule apparently requires independent characters have storm shields.

 

Edit: huh, it seems like librarians are the ONLY independent characters unable to get storm shields when in terminator armor.

 

Wait, Interrogator Chaplains can get storm shields in terminator armor??

 

Nope, but I can see where the confusion comes from. See, unlike the Librarian, the Interrogator-Chaplain can select from the TDA weapons list. One option there is to "replace its power weapon with one of the following", including a storm shield. Sadly, the Interrogator-Chaplain doesn't have a power weapon, he has a crozius arcanum. So no.

[3DJutsu]

I think my biggest gripes out so far are (sans Special Issue ammo, but meh)

 

-The lack of Stormshields on ICs outside of Captains, thus not giving the Fortress of Shields to Libbys or Int Chaps.

 

-Thus far the inability to grant Ravenwing to any HQs on bikes

 

I can live without the first, that's ok I guess. Majority toughness rules still apply in this case, or no? Certainly not in challenges.

 

The second irks me, a lot. But I can't help but wonder:

 

There are effectively two sections in every codex for each unit. The 'Lore' part, where it tells you about the unit and why it's cool, with a dash of background maybe? Followed later by the 'Army Building' section, where it lists the individuals point costs and gear upgrades.

 

With our previous codex it listed our Unique models special wargear in the models 'Lore' section. i.e. Sammael and Corvex's loadout as well as Sableclaws special shenanigans. Now it seems to list all special wargear in the 'Army Building' section, right there with the upgrades and all.

 

So unless they've taken a whole new route to codex making (I'm not familiar with any codexs with a layout like the leaked photos thus far) I believe it's entirely possible that the rules to make Int Chaps and Libbys into RWSF legal HQs may be part of their 'Lore' sections. Just a thought, remember we've only received a small portion of the codex, there could be other rules and goodies lying in wait as part of the 'Lore' sections.

 

So don't cry foul yet and don't forget that Loyalty is it's own reward.

 

Would still be nice to give my Libby a SS though, ah well.

[Dread_Hospitaller]

Eh, I just huck my termie libbies in with th/ss termies and look out sir as much as possible usually. Its just not being able to have them benefit from dwk's toughness that drives me nuts