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The DA FAQ request : let's centralize everything guys !

Master Avoghai

By Master Avoghai
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twopounder Veteran

twopounder

Posted
Posted

Yeah I don't criticise the existence of the redemption force.

 

I rather don't understand why they didn't differentiate the strike force that much. They are pretty similar...

 

It's primarily restrictions. One is meant to be a purely elite detachment like the original deathwing while the other is a more balanced formation. It really just comes down to what you can spam in a lion's blade. Which really isn't all that meaningful when deathwing are too expensive to spam to begin with. It wouldn't make much difference if the DSF was in the lion's blade, really. It's unlikely you'll roll a load of knights and Belial after paying for the demi-company. Even in 2500 point games, you'll run out of points before you take half of the DSF options.

Master Avoghai Veteran

Master Avoghai

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Sure but like I've said : they are pretty similar in term of way of fielding them.

 

Apart if you want to field a knight only army, they'll look the same.

 

I've juste made my all comer DW list. ( here)

 

I could have made the exact same list using Redemption Force formation. The only reason I've chosen to use the DWSF rather than the formation is the re-roll of the warlord trait and the fact that I'm not obliged to DS all my unit in the same time. But clearly this isn't enough to justify the existence of the DW Strike Force.

If the DWSF wouldn't have existed I would have used DWRF and I would have been happy with that.

 

If GW would have written "summoned to war" as such : "all models kept in reserve ust be placed in DS reserve" it would have been a more play style choice

 

Either you have a formation more restricted that can be allied with Lion's blade for maximum bonus OR a more flexible and independant formation with less bonus but that can field dedicated LR and dread.

 

Here, I find the DWSF pretty useless

twopounder Veteran

twopounder

Posted
Posted

Sure but like I've said : they are pretty similar in term of way of fielding them.

 

Apart if you want to field a knight only army, they'll look the same.

 

I've juste made my all comer DW list. ( here)

 

I could have made the exact same list using Redemption Force formation. The only reason I've chosen to use the DWSF rather than the formation is the re-roll of the warlord trait and the fact that I'm not obliged to DS all my unit in the same time. But clearly this isn't enough to justify the existence of the DW Strike Force.

If the DWSF wouldn't have existed I would have used DWRF and I would have been happy with that.

 

If GW would have written "summoned to war" as such : "all models kept in reserve ust be placed in DS reserve" it would have been a more play style choice

 

Either you have a formation more restricted that can be allied with Lion's blade for maximum bonus OR a more flexible and independant formation with less bonus but that can field dedicated LR and dread.

 

Here, I find the DWSF pretty useless

 

That just comes down to how you build your list. I can make a lion's blade without using the lion's blade too. Deployment is similar, but method of play is not. Unless you build the same list with both of them, but why bother. You might as well stack up venerable dreads and knights in a DSF.

Elios Harg Battle-Brother

Elios Harg

Posted
Posted

The DWSF and the DWRF have slight differences that mean a lot. For example, a DWRF cannot be fielded by itself, ever because any drop pods come in with the rest of the army the DWSF can be fielded by itself due to drop pods operating normally. The DWSF is better in conjunction with a RWAS or RWSF because they allow perfect reserves control, but without the RWSF or RWAS the DWSF reserves are unreliable on the other hand the DWRF works better independent of a RWSF or RWAS because it can set the turn of arrival at 2, 3, or 4 and everything comes in simultaneously. The two are quite similar and we definitely did not need both but I think they serve different purposes. If the issue with Land Raiders and non-TDA Deathwing characters gets resolved favorably (i.e. we can field them and they do not have to be in reserves) then the two will be very distinct. I still feel that they work well *with* each other. Until an FAQ/errata comes out, my DWSF will contain my dreadnoughts and my DWRF will contain my terminators.  

Darkn3ssF4lls Veteran

Darkn3ssF4lls

Posted
Posted

Ravenwing bikes get their own note on the combat squad rule. They count as full strength when they include 7 models and split into two units of three models and a single attack bike.

 

 

alright kewl, thank you i didn't scroll to much last night in that rule

  • 2 weeks later...
aura_enchanted Veteran

aura_enchanted

Posted
Posted

Does the hammer of caliban count as an ally? If so does the rules for allied units starting inside friendly transports apply? For example could you fill the land raider from the formation with assault marines

 

Would they start in it if they joined the tech marine as a unit since he needs to start the game in the raider anyway.

 

Also is the deathwing redemption force considered one unit for the purposes of reserves if you use deathwing assault?

shabbadoo Veteran

shabbadoo

Posted
Posted

Does the hammer of caliban count as an ally?

No, the Hammer of Caliban is a Formation. Allies come from other codexes. Dante and a squad of Blood Angels would be an Ally. Units from a Lion's Blade, CAD, or other Detachment/Formation from Codex: Dark Angels are not Allies but a different part of the same force. The only time a Hammer of Caliban would be considered to be an Ally is if it is being attached to a army made using a completley different codex, such as if I built a Blood Angels army and then added a Hammer of Caliban to it.

If so does the rules for allied units starting inside friendly transports apply?

No, those rules do not apply, as the Land Raider from the Hammer of Caliban and other Dark Angels units in your army list are not Allies, but are literally a part of the same force, so they can freely start the game in any transport that was not taken as a Dedicated Transport for a particaulr unit, which the Land Raider was not. The only exception to this would be for units that have other requirements, such as a Deathwing Termiantor Squad from a Deathwing Redemttion Force which is required to start in Deepstrike Reserve, such that it cannot start play in the Land Raider (i.e. the Deathwing Assault rule disallows it).

For example could you fill the land raider from the formation with assault marines

Yes. A squad of Dark Angels Assault Mariens taken as part of your army can begin the game embarked in the Land Raider, evne if they are taken from another Detachment/Formation (unless there is rules exception similar to the one previously mentioned).

Would they start in it if they joined the tech marine as a unit since he needs to start the game in the raider anyway.

Yes, just as any Independent Character can, whether they are from the same Detachment/Formation or not (once again, unless there is rules exception similar to the one previously mentioned).

Also is the deathwing redemption force considered one unit for the purposes of reserves if you use deathwing assault?

The Deathwing Redemption Force is one Formation, but it is still composed of individual Units. This Formation shows up all at the same time, but the entire Formation does not do so as a single Unit, but as individual Units, so no such thing as Unit Coherrency or anything else that would apply to a Unit applies to the force in its entirety.

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e245/btmcrae/tball.jpg

C'mon, man! This thread is for the 95 MPH fast ball questions, not T-ball questions! tongue.pngmsn-wink.gif

aura_enchanted Veteran

aura_enchanted

Posted
Posted

Does the hammer of caliban count as an ally?

No, the Hammer of Caliban is a Formation. Allies come from other codexes. Dante and a squad of Blood Angels would be an Ally. Units from a Lion's Blade, CAD, or other Detachment/Formation from Codex: Dark Angels are not Allies but a different part of the same force. The only time a Hammer of Caliban would be considered to be an Ally is if it is being attached to a army made using a completley different codex, such as if I built a Blood Angels army and then added a Hammer of Caliban to it.

If so does the rules for allied units starting inside friendly transports apply?

No, those rules do not apply, as the Land Raider from the Hammer of Caliban and other Dark Angels units in your army list are not Allies, but are literally a part of the same force, so they can freely start the game in any transport that was not taken as a Dedicated Transport for a particaulr unit, which the Land Raider was not. The only exception to this would be for units that have other requirements, such as a Deathwing Termiantor Squad from a Deathwing Redemttion Force which is required to start in Deepstrike Reserve, such that it cannot start play in the Land Raider (i.e. the Deathwing Assault rule disallows it).

For example could you fill the land raider from the formation with assault marines

Yes. A squad of Dark Angels Assault Mariens taken as part of your army can begin the game embarked in the Land Raider, evne if they are taken from another Detachment/Formation (unless there is rules exception similar to the one previously mentioned).

Would they start in it if they joined the tech marine as a unit since he needs to start the game in the raider anyway.

Yes, just as any Independent Character can, whether they are from the same Detachment/Formation or not (once again, unless there is rules exception similar to the one previously mentioned).

Also is the deathwing redemption force considered one unit for the purposes of reserves if you use deathwing assault?

The Deathwing Redemption Force is one Formation, but it is still composed of individual Units. This Formation shows up all at the same time, but the entire Formation does not do so as a single Unit, but as individual Units, so no such thing as Unit Coherrency or anything else that would apply to a Unit applies to the force in its entirety.

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e245/btmcrae/tball.jpg

C'mon, man! This thread is for the 95 MPH fast ball questions, not T-ball questions! tongue.pngmsn-wink.gif

If it's not counted as one unit when it's on the reserves bench how is its expected to arrive at the same time? (Minus the dreadnaught who is clearly given an exemption) if he wasn't given that exemption it would have been a case of total rule obscurity. But I interpret it as the entire force is 1 unit on the bench and that should it fail to ever reach the table at all it counts as one unit lost not 2+ Because the dreadnaught would have otherwise simply been told he had to have a drop

Pod, not that he could t1 drop to the table. And he had to remain on the bench with your Knights and and termite squad and so on.

In my opinion that's the only way deathwing assault special rule can make sense. It's not raw but rules as implied/intended is clearly here.

shabbadoo Veteran

shabbadoo

Posted
Posted

If it's not counted as one unit when it's on the reserves bench how is its expected to arrive at the same time?

 

Because the rule specifically tells us that it does.

 

"All units in this Formation automatically arrive by Deep Strike at the start of the chosen turn."

 

A rule cannot be wrtten any clearer.  Also, Formations made up of multiple units count as multiple units unless otherwise stated, as is normal, and nothing in the rules countermands/alters this.You will note that Formations with unique Unit structures will have such things specifally noted in their entries.  The Hammer of Caliban and Stormwing (from C: SM) Formations are good examples of this.    

 

But I interpret it as the entire force is 1 unit on the bench and that should it fail to ever reach the table at all it counts as one unit lost not 2+ Because the dreadnaught would have otherwise simply been told he had to have a Drop Pod, not that he could t1 drop to the table.

 

The rules do otherwise tell us that any included Venerable Dreadnought must have a Drop Pod. If you look at the bottom of the Formation sidebar on p. 141 under "Restictions", it says right there that, if included, a Venerable Dreadnought must have a Drop Pod.  To leave no question as to whether the Drop Pod follows the Deathwing Assault arrival rules or the Drop Pod arrival rules, it was necessary to specifically mention in the Deathwing Assault rule that a Venerable Dreadought in a Drop Pod does NOT follow the usual Drop Pod arrival rules, but that it instead follows the arrival rules as mentioned in Deathwing Assault.  They very purposely did this, and so the whole question of "The Drop Pod rules say it arrives in Turn 1, but Deathwing Assault says all untis in the Formation arrive on the specified turn. Which do I use?" never needs to be asked, because the Deathwing Assault rules are written in such a way as to tell us that they modify all of the Deep Strike Reserves arrival rules, for everything, including Drop Pods.

DeadZone Battle-Brother

DeadZone

Posted
Posted

Is there still no news/update/email response regarding Ravenwing HQ's and the Ravenwing special rule?

It's literally the worst mistake possible, and the only thing keeping me from running my Librarian Biker solo, instead of with a squad of bikes.

Simiel Battle-Brother

Simiel

Posted
Posted

Just some of my thoughts :

Well Guys, as the DA codex is on the way to be released the last leaks seem to show that GW still hasn't lost its schizophrenic capacity to release nice models with nice rules and forget obvious points.

I propose to centralize the questions in this topic in order that we may all mail the GW team the same bunch of questions so that they understand it's a major issue and not simply one or 2 random guys they don't care about.

Please though : this topic goal's is to centralize unclear points. It's not a topic to moan about GW (everybody makes errors) nor to ask for options that have been clearly not included :

For example, the question : "do the Company vets may have access to special ammo?" or "Have you forgottent the centurion entries?" are not the purpose of this topic rolleyes.gif

I'll edit this topic with your questions. In order to keep it clear and easy to read I think we should write them the same way :

Q: Name of the section/artefacts/weapons/special rules concerned and the page Your Question

I'll do my first 4 let's see if you have any more questions

Q: Ravenwing Battle Force (p159) : The battle Force allows to include 3 HQ. However the limitations state that only models with the ravenwing special rule are allowed and only Sammael has this special rule. Should we assume that giving a space marine bike to a character wautomatically gives him the Ravenwing special rule?

>Probably won't happen as mentioned else where the formation will get amended to allow IC's with Bike to be included.

Q : Ravenwing Battle Force (p159) : The rule Strike As One specifies that ALL the formation should either be deployed entirely or kept in reserve entirely. Since the rulebook oblige me to keep flyers in reserve, does it imply then that a Ravenwing Battle Force including any flyer (Dark Talon or Nephilim) is obliged to be entirely kept in reserve?

>Yup this one's pretty straight forward if this formation includes a flyer it must be kept in reserve.

Q : Deathwing Battle Force (p158) : The rule specifies that the units should be placed in Deep Strike Reserve. But what about a Deathwing squad in a dedicated Land Raider?

Do the Land raider arrive via Deep Strike?

Is the Land raider deployed on the table and the squad is kept in DS reserve?

Are both the squad and the Land Raider deployed on the table?

Other solution?

>While not explicitly excluded, read as intended Land Raiders not having the Deep Strike special rule, can not be included in this Detachment.

Q : Deathwing Battle Force (p158) : If I use a single detachment, all my squads are must be kept in reserve and therefore arrive after the 1st turn. But since I have no units on the table turn one, does it mean that a single Deathwing Battle Force automatically loose the game turn one?

>Yes

Q : Deathwing Redemption Force (p141) : Same questions as above. How do I deal with transport with the deathwind assault special rules? If I use the formation alone, how can I do to have units on the table turn 1?

Q: Deathwing Strike Force (p.158)

Restrictions say that all models have to have the Deathwing special rule.

This would mean that Azrael, Asmodai, Ezekiel, Interrogator-Chaplain, Librarian and Company Master can be taken.

However, Summoned to War rule states that all models have to be deployed by Deep Strike.

This is not a problem for Interrogator-Chaplain, Librarian and Company Master if they have TDA purchased,

but how are Azrael, Asmodai and Ezekiel supposed to be deployed? Or are they simply not allowed in this detachment?

>Azrael is a LoW and can not be taken in this Detachment. Detachment will likely be amended with the Deathwing Redemption Force IC restrictions.

Q: The Rift cannon (p 150) has the vortex rule on any roll of doubles and is applied immediately. However, the rules for vortex specifically say to place the blast marker and roll for scatter. Does the template simply scatter the original distance and count as vortex, not scatter and count as vortex, or roll scatter as per vortex rules, replacing the original scatter?

Q : Sammael in Sableclaw (p101) Sabreclaw is: Vehicle (Fast, Skimmer, Character).

Does this mean if he is charged in combat (despite that vehicles cannot charge into combat themselves) he could be challenged? If so, what profile would he fight with as Vehicles are WS1 for the purposes of combat.

Q : Company Master (p106) : Isn't the bike option missing? How can I represent a successor chapter Master on bike or even the support company Master on bike?

>Probably intentional, just as we don't get a generic Chapter Master we don't get a Generic 2nd company leader, also we can't field non ravenwing bike units, so there's no way to represent 6th company bike units anyway, I guess the reserve companies are just trained rather than fielded on/in bikes/nephilim's, then promoted to the Ravenwing when there good enough.

Q : Ravenwing Support squadron (p143) : The ravenwing support squadron descirption states that a Darkshroud and the LS form one single unit.

The Darkshroud has the Shrouded USR. As per the USR, does this mean that the shrouded special rule of the Darkshroud extends to the other member of its unit and that all the squadron has the shrouded special rule?

Moreover, do the LS of the squadron also profit from the "Icon of old Caliban" special rules and benefit from the stealth special rules?

Q: Dark Angels Wargear List(p134) :Power Armoured Characters are able to buy all 4 Combi Weapons available but Characters in Terminator Armour are can only buy 3 with Combi-Grav being excluded is this on purpose.

Q: Can we use Seraphicus rules (limited edition dark angel int chappy) in this edition? If so, what is his profile?

Q: Interrogator Chaplain (p102)An I-Chapalin in TDA my take terminator weapons, and under the description of them (p97) it states "...may replace its power weapon with one of the following:". Does the Crozius arcanum count as a power weapon?

>Erm. No. see main rules ( pg. 179 ) for what is defined as a 'power weapon'

Master Avoghai Veteran

Master Avoghai

Posted
  • Author
Posted

The page 1 list was regurly updated. The initial goal was to gather the most critical questions but this list should not be considered as restrictive or exclusive.

 

If you think a question is missing then you can add it at the end of the list.

 

Please note that I've sent request also to the black library as the FAQs are now back on their page. I've sent them such request : "seems like the FAQ pages haven't known any recent update, for 6 months now though lots of codex have been released such as skitarii, eldar or SM. Could we expect an update soon ? Since I hardly imagine that all those new releases don't need any clarifications."

 

 

Strangely I have no answer yet :rolleyes:

allagh Novitiate

allagh

Posted
Posted

Probably to add to clarifications.

1. Take RWSF and allied IH CM. Send RWSF and CM into reserves, attach CM to, say, RWCS.

2. Take DWRF and another detachment's Behlial/TA CM/Any bro TA character. Sent IC to reserves, attach to any squad from DWRF, call turn 2.

 

What will happen on turn 2?

1. Both squad and allied character will arrive without reserves roll

2. Roll 3+ and on 1-2 no squad and IC will arrive

3. Roll 3+ and on 1-2 only squad will arrive

  • 2 weeks later...
IanSturrock Veteran

IanSturrock

Posted
Posted

Another one:

 

If you give a Librarian Terminator Armour, you only have one weapon (Force Weapon). What happens if you want to buy a relic such as Foe-Smiter or Lion's Roar? Do you have to give up your force weapon for it? Or can you just buy it? Or would you need to spend 5 points on a Storm Bolter and then swap that for the relic?

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