The DA FAQ request : let's centralize everything guys !

[cielaq]

Well, if you're going from the start, you have to place the blast marker again. :)

[3DJutsu]

Would like to know as well, any chance the Vengeance or Darkshroud attached to a RWSS gains the benefit of anti-grav upwash?

[Elios Harg]

It looks like the squadron gets the rule, but only regular land speeders actually benefit from it.

Yet, because stealth merely requires a single model in the unit with the rule to benefit, the Dark Shroud will essentially have both so long as at least one other speeder in the squadron is alive.

[SnakeChisler]

The Formation is 3 speeders (1 Unit) & 1 Dark Shroud (1 Unit) as far as I'm aware there not joined at the hip and are 2 separate units

[3DJutsu]

The Formation is 3 speeders (1 Unit) & 1 Dark Shroud (1 Unit) as far as I'm aware there not joined at the hip and are 2 separate units

Formation states they are a squadron, and incindentally give up 2vp is completely destroyed

[twopounder]

I'm wondering why sableclaw has grim resolve. It can't overwatch and stubborn on a vehicle is a bit daft.

[MoonPhoenix]

I'm wondering why sableclaw has grim resolve. It can't overwatch and stubborn on a vehicle is a bit daft.

 

As i remberer he can overwatch if someone attack Ravenwing unit in 24" of him

[3DJutsu]

That's the ravenshield from the RWSS formation

[Elios Harg]

Perhaps they originally intended for Sableclaw to have ravenshield (or be included in RWSS) but changed their mind and forgot to remove it. Or perhaps they were going to make him a chariot and then changed their mind. Who knows. In any case, it's not like we pay for grim resolve and it does nothing. Sableclaw is the same price as before, but inarguably superior now.

[Master Sheol]

RWSF HQ is my main concern but a way to play a pure DW Will be good Too... ;)

[NCSUWolf]

For when we all send this coordinated FAQ/errata request, we should send it to

 

gamefaqs@gwplc.com

 

 

I had to call into GW customer service about my Reclusiam Edition and asked the guy where questions/rules/errata concerns go to get seen by GW and he gave me that address.

[Solrac]

Don't think this needs to be in here:

 

Q : Ravenwing Support squadron (p143) : The ravenwing support squadron description states that a Darkshroud and the LS form one single unit. the Darkshroud has the Shrouded USR, does this mean that the shrouded special rule of the Darkshroud extends to the other members of it's unit and that all the squadron has the shrouded special rule?

 

The answer is yes. The Shrouded USR clearly states "A unit that contains at least one model with this special rule counts it's cover save as being 2 points better than normal" (p 170).

 

As per the formation they count as one unit so as long as the Darkshroud is alive the whole unit gets shrouded.

 

In addition they should also receive the Darkshroud's Stealth as the Icon of Old Caliban rule states: Friendly unit with the Dark Angel's faction within 6" of one or more Ravenwing Darkshroud's gain the Fear and Stealth special rules (though it does not affect the Darkshroud themselves)".

 

They themselves count as a friendly unit so the Land Speeders would also get Stealth however the Darkshroud does not. I believe this to be the case as the rule only states "though it does not affect the Darkshroud themselves" not "It does not affect the Darkshroud unit".

 

So the LS in this formation have a standard 4+ cover save without having to jink and get their 2+ re-rollable jink save.

[Cadian16th]

I think you mean rather a 2nd PF don't you? As the specialist weapon bonus requires 2 identical weapons to grant the +1A bonus.

Incorrect. You only need two specialist weapons.

 

"“A model fighting with this weapon does not receive +1 Attack for fighting with two weapons unless it is armed with two or more Melee weapons with the Specialist Weapon rule.”

[twopounder]

 

I'm wondering why sableclaw has grim resolve. It can't overwatch and stubborn on a vehicle is a bit daft.

 

As i remberer he can overwatch if someone attack Ravenwing unit in 24" of him

 

 

 

That's the ravenshield from the RWSS formation

 

Can't be, as ravenshield is locked to RWSS and sableclaw cannot join the unit. There is nothing that grants sableclaw ravenshield that I'm seeing in the codex.

[marti350]

Would like to know as well, any chance the Vengeance or Darkshroud attached to a RWSS gains the benefit of anti-grav upwash?

 

I also was wondering that, anti grav upwash says the unit gets it if they have 3+ landspeeders and the RWSS makes them one unit so I would assume so but I don't know for sure

[Solrac]

A Shroud or Vengeance would be granted Anti-grav Upwash.

 

The rule states:

"Whilst this unit includes at least three Ravenwing Land Speeders, it can move an additional 6" when moving flat out" (p126)

 

So as long as you don't lose too many Land Speeders you're good to go.

 

There's no ambiguity here like other rules and it's pretty easy to follow RAW in this one. 

[FarFromSam]

"How did you get leaked information concerning the codex?" -GW legal.

[ValourousHeart]

Don't think this needs to be in here:

 

Q : Ravenwing Support squadron (p143) : The ravenwing support squadron description states that a Darkshroud and the LS form one single unit. the Darkshroud has the Shrouded USR, does this mean that the shrouded special rule of the Darkshroud extends to the other members of it's unit and that all the squadron has the shrouded special rule?

 

The answer is yes. The Shrouded USR clearly states "A unit that contains at least one model with this special rule counts it's cover save as being 2 points better than normal" (p 170).

 

As per the formation they count as one unit so as long as the Darkshroud is alive the whole unit gets shrouded.

 

In addition they should also receive the Darkshroud's Stealth as the Icon of Old Caliban rule states: Friendly unit with the Dark Angel's faction within 6" of one or more Ravenwing Darkshroud's gain the Fear and Stealth special rules (though it does not affect the Darkshroud themselves)".

 

They themselves count as a friendly unit so the Land Speeders would also get Stealth however the Darkshroud does not. I believe this to be the case as the rule only states "though it does not affect the Darkshroud themselves" not "It does not affect the Darkshroud unit".

 

So the LS in this formation have a standard 4+ cover save without having to jink and get their 2+ re-rollable jink save.

It seems like you might be double dipping here to get both rules.

Darkshroud states that it can't claim the benefit of the stealth that it gives out to other units with in range.

So the landspeeders are a seperate unit just long enough to get stealth and then you are joining the darksroud and claiming that the speeders and darkshroud get both.

 

But wouldn't the rule that prevents the Darkshroud from benefiting from its own stealth also prevent the other memebers of its unit from getting stealth?

Instead shouldn't they just have shrouded.

[marti350]

A Shroud or Vengeance would be granted Anti-grav Upwash.

 

The rule states:

"Whilst this unit includes at least three Ravenwing Land Speeders, it can move an additional 6" when moving flat out" (p126)

 

So as long as you don't lose too many Land Speeders you're good to go.

 

There's no ambiguity here like other rules and it's pretty easy to follow RAW in this one. 

 

 

Normally I would agree, but I'm trying to look at this from the point of view of the one or two hard core rule lawyers at my FLGS. The squadron says one unit of landspeeders and one unit of Darkshroud that join to be a squadron. The anti grav rule says "this unit" I can see people saying the darkshroud is a second unit joined to a squadron of two units. 

[march10k]

Interrogator Chaplain is Inner Circle with a 0 - 1 option for every Demi-Company as funnily enough is Librarian!

Incorrect. Inner Circle is a 0-1 choice for every Lion's Blade. Given that you get additional buffs for taking a second demi company in the same lion's blade, and two lion's blades, each with their own demi company and librarian would require a "tax" of two additional optional sub-formations, it's a relevant distinction!

Another one, just to be sure:

Q: Deathwing Terminator Squad (p. 116) Two Lighting Claws/ Thunderhammer & Storm Shield replace "all weapons". Can they be taken together with Cyclone Launcher?

On the other hand, last time when we've asked this, they changed 2LC/TH&SS entry to "replace SB&PW with", so maybe it's better not to ask.

Yeah I think so. Moreover it specifies that one model may choose a weapon in the terminators heavy weapons and that the CML doesn't replace any weapon...

It's an order of operations thing. If you take the LCs/TH first as suggested by the order of the list, then the CML, then sure. If there is NO order of operation then the CML gets replaced along with the other weapons. Hopefully, instead of an errata on this issue they simply say "Yes, you may take a CML with a model that has 2LC or TH/SS"

If they do an errata it needs to read "Any model may replace its stormbolter and powerfist or stormbolter and powersword with..."

For the love of Him-on-Earth! This isn't MtG, with it's "hah, I interrupt your preemption with my card that lets me time-travel back and place a card before you even thought about your next move!" timing shenanigans. There is no timing in army list building!

Another one, just to be sure:

Q: Deathwing Terminator Squad (p. 116) Two Lighting Claws/ Thunderhammer & Storm Shield replace "all weapons". Can they be taken together with Cyclone Launcher?

On the other hand, last time when we've asked this, they changed 2LC/TH&SS entry to "replace SB&PW with", so maybe it's better not to ask.

Yeah I think so. Moreover it specifies that one model may choose a weapon in the terminators heavy weapons and that the CML doesn't replace any weapon...

Hmm...well, on the one hand, the CML doesn't replace any weapon, but on the other hand, TH/SS replaces all weapons, and the CML is a weapon. That would seem to suggest that TH/SS/CML is indeed an illegal build, as written, but it's reasonable to believe that the authors intended that the "doesn't replace a weapon" was meant to exempt the CML from the "replaces all weapons" clause...luckily, RAW is dead, so we can apply RAI and carry on with the missile-spewing thundernators...now with 5 thunderhammers per 5 terminators!

That said...it still makes sense to keep the SB/PS sergeant...you will often want to shoot missiles at one target and charge another...split fire to the rescue, you have your sergeant's SB to shoot at the melee target.

Ezekiel's new Book of Salvation says it grants +1A at the start of the fight sub-phase to the end of that phase. Does this mean that unlike say Hatred, each Fight Sub-Phase will continue to generate +1A.

As written, it's a straight +1A...but then why not say that? Sadly, it may be intended to give you a libby and a chappy in the same model....but then again, why not give Zeke the zealot USR, if that's the intent? Wow...this one is so crappily worded that neither RAW nor RAI is any help!!!!

Ok, here's my contribution:

Issue:

DA has 5+ to hit on overwatch, Demi Company modifies that to 4+, Lion's Blade further modifies that to "on your natural BS."

Discussion:

This would seem to create a contradiction between the Demi Company rules and the Lion's Blade rules. However, there is no contradiction, just potential for confusion. Demi Company marines in a Lion's Blade formation fire overwatch on natural BS, as do any other members of the Lion's Blade, assuming that they can fire overwatch. Demi Company marines in an unbound list fire overwatch at BS3, all other Lion's Blade components in an unbound list fire overwatch at BS2. You can, for example, take a Hammer of Caliban without meeting the core requirement of fielding a demi company, and claim the benefits associated with the hammer (tank hunters, blah blah)...that would be an example of an unbound lion's blade component. You could theoretically field an unbound demi company in the same way, but when all you need to make it bound is five scouts, why would you, unless some other factor is depriving you of bound status?

Recommendation:

Clarify in the FAQ that the BS3 of the Demi Company is overridden by the "natural BS" of the Lion's Blade, perhaps with a note that it's possible to field a demi company that is not part of a Lion's Blade.

[marti350]

 

 

Interrogator Chaplain is Inner Circle with a 0 - 1 option for every Demi-Company as funnily enough is Librarian!

 

 

Incorrect.  Inner Circle is a 0-1 choice for every Lion's Blade.  Given that you get additional buffs for taking a second demi company in the same lion's blade, and two lion's blades, each with their own demi company and librarian would require a "tax" of two additional optional sub-formations, it's a relevant distinction!

 

 

 

Inner Circle is a 0-1 option for every core choice you take in a lions blade. Demi Company is a core choice. So you could take 1 auxiliary and 3 core and 3 inner circle all in the same Lion's Blade if you really wanted to

[twopounder]

Interrogator Chaplain is Inner Circle with a 0 - 1 option for every Demi-Company as funnily enough is Librarian!

Incorrect. Inner Circle is a 0-1 choice for every Lion's Blade. Given that you get additional buffs for taking a second demi company in the same lion's blade, and two lion's blades, each with their own demi company and librarian would require a "tax" of two additional optional sub-formations, it's a relevant distinction!

Another one, just to be sure:

Q: Deathwing Terminator Squad (p. 116) Two Lighting Claws/ Thunderhammer & Storm Shield replace "all weapons". Can they be taken together with Cyclone Launcher?

On the other hand, last time when we've asked this, they changed 2LC/TH&SS entry to "replace SB&PW with", so maybe it's better not to ask.

Yeah I think so. Moreover it specifies that one model may choose a weapon in the terminators heavy weapons and that the CML doesn't replace any weapon...

It's an order of operations thing. If you take the LCs/TH first as suggested by the order of the list, then the CML, then sure. If there is NO order of operation then the CML gets replaced along with the other weapons. Hopefully, instead of an errata on this issue they simply say "Yes, you may take a CML with a model that has 2LC or TH/SS"

If they do an errata it needs to read "Any model may replace its stormbolter and powerfist or stormbolter and powersword with..."

For the love of Him-on-Earth! This isn't MtG, with it's "hah, I interrupt your preemption with my card that lets me time-travel back and place a card before you even thought about your next move!" timing shenanigans. There is no timing in army list building!

Another one, just to be sure:

Q: Deathwing Terminator Squad (p. 116) Two Lighting Claws/ Thunderhammer & Storm Shield replace "all weapons". Can they be taken together with Cyclone Launcher?

On the other hand, last time when we've asked this, they changed 2LC/TH&SS entry to "replace SB&PW with", so maybe it's better not to ask.

Yeah I think so. Moreover it specifies that one model may choose a weapon in the terminators heavy weapons and that the CML doesn't replace any weapon...

Hmm...well, on the one hand, the CML doesn't replace any weapon, but on the other hand, TH/SS replaces all weapons, and the CML is a weapon. That would seem to suggest that TH/SS/CML is indeed an illegal build, as written, but it's reasonable to believe that the authors intended that the "doesn't replace a weapon" was meant to exempt the CML from the "replaces all weapons" clause...luckily, RAW is dead, so we can apply RAI and carry on with the missile-spewing thundernators...now with 5 thunderhammers per 5 terminators!

That said...it still makes sense to keep the SB/PS sergeant...you will often want to shoot missiles at one target and charge another...split fire to the rescue, you have your sergeant's SB to shoot at the melee target.

Ezekiel's new Book of Salvation says it grants +1A at the start of the fight sub-phase to the end of that phase. Does this mean that unlike say Hatred, each Fight Sub-Phase will continue to generate +1A.

As written, it's a straight +1A...but then why not say that? Sadly, it may be intended to give you a libby and a chappy in the same model....but then again, why not give Zeke the zealot USR, if that's the intent? Wow...this one is so crappily worded that neither RAW nor RAI is any help!!!!

Ok, here's my contribution:

Issue:

DA has 5+ to hit on overwatch, Demi Company modifies that to 4+, Lion's Blade further modifies that to "on your natural BS."

Discussion:

This would seem to create a contradiction between the Demi Company rules and the Lion's Blade rules. However, there is no contradiction, just potential for confusion. Demi Company marines in a Lion's Blade formation fire overwatch on natural BS, as do any other members of the Lion's Blade, assuming that they can fire overwatch. Demi Company marines in an unbound list fire overwatch at BS3, all other Lion's Blade components in an unbound list fire overwatch at BS2. You can, for example, take a Hammer of Caliban without meeting the core requirement of fielding a demi company, and claim the benefits associated with the hammer (tank hunters, blah blah)...that would be an example of an unbound lion's blade component. You could theoretically field an unbound demi company in the same way, but when all you need to make it bound is five scouts, why would you, unless some other factor is depriving you of bound status?

Recommendation:

Clarify in the FAQ that the BS3 of the Demi Company is overridden by the "natural BS" of the Lion's Blade, perhaps with a note that it's possible to field a demi company that is not part of a Lion's Blade.

A demi-company that does not satisfy lion's blade requirements is BS3. As part of the Lion's blade, natural BS overrides the previous bonus. Technically they have both, but why would you use the worse option? It's not a contradiction. It's like a unit with slow and purposeful getting relentless, or a unit with stubborn getting fearless. You just use the better of the two.

[twopounder]

 

Don't think this needs to be in here:

 

Q : Ravenwing Support squadron (p143) : The ravenwing support squadron description states that a Darkshroud and the LS form one single unit. the Darkshroud has the Shrouded USR, does this mean that the shrouded special rule of the Darkshroud extends to the other members of it's unit and that all the squadron has the shrouded special rule?

 

The answer is yes. The Shrouded USR clearly states "A unit that contains at least one model with this special rule counts it's cover save as being 2 points better than normal" (p 170).

 

As per the formation they count as one unit so as long as the Darkshroud is alive the whole unit gets shrouded.

 

In addition they should also receive the Darkshroud's Stealth as the Icon of Old Caliban rule states: Friendly unit with the Dark Angel's faction within 6" of one or more Ravenwing Darkshroud's gain the Fear and Stealth special rules (though it does not affect the Darkshroud themselves)".

 

They themselves count as a friendly unit so the Land Speeders would also get Stealth however the Darkshroud does not. I believe this to be the case as the rule only states "though it does not affect the Darkshroud themselves" not "It does not affect the Darkshroud unit".

 

So the LS in this formation have a standard 4+ cover save without having to jink and get their 2+ re-rollable jink save.

It seems like you might be double dipping here to get both rules.

Darkshroud states that it can't claim the benefit of the stealth that it gives out to other units with in range.

So the landspeeders are a seperate unit just long enough to get stealth and then you are joining the darksroud and claiming that the speeders and darkshroud get both.

 

But wouldn't the rule that prevents the Darkshroud from benefiting from its own stealth also prevent the other memebers of its unit from getting stealth?

Instead shouldn't they just have shrouded.

 

 

On the issue of Darkshrouds and stealth:

 

The Stealth USR explicitely states: "A unit that contains at least one model with this special rule counts its cover saves as being 1 point better than normal. "

 

So the order of ruling goes Darkshroud gives stealth to unit > all models in unit now have stealth > darkshroud is in unit > darkshroud gets stealth.

 

HOWEVER - in the current iteration of rules: "Cover save bonuses from the Shrouded and Stealth special rules are cumulative (to a maximum of a 2+ cover save)."

 

So none of that argument even matters, as the entire unit has shroud anyway:

 

Shrouded: "A unit that contains at least one model with this special rule counts its cover save as being 2 points better than normal. Note that this means a model with the Shrouded special rule always has a cover save of at least 5+, even if it’s in the open."

[3DJutsu]

A Shroud or Vengeance would be granted Anti-grav Upwash.

 

The rule states:

"Whilst this unit includes at least three Ravenwing Land Speeders, it can move an additional 6" when moving flat out" (p126)

 

So as long as you don't lose too many Land Speeders you're good to go.

 

There's no ambiguity here like other rules and it's pretty easy to follow RAW in this one.

Two issues I have with that point of view. First being that 'Ravenwing Landspeeders' are a specific entry, separate from the Darkshroud and Vengeance. Second being that a RWSS contains a unit of Ravenwing land speeders and a unit of Ravenwing landspeeder vengeance.

 

The formation causes them to act as a squadron, comprising of two separate units. Using your logic my opponent could argue that if I'm giving my darkshroud the rules from the RWLS entry then I give the Darkshrouds effects to the RWLS, thus preventing them from gaining stealth since the darkshroud doesn't give itself stealth.

[3DJutsu]

On the issue of Darkshrouds and stealth:

 

The Stealth USR explicitely states: "A unit that contains at least one model with this special rule counts its cover saves as being 1 point better than normal. "

 

So the order of ruling goes Darkshroud gives stealth to unit > all models in unit now have stealth > darkshroud is in unit > darkshroud gets stealth.

 

HOWEVER - in the current iteration of rules: "Cover save bonuses from the Shrouded and Stealth special rules are cumulative (to a maximum of a 2+ cover save)."

 

So none of that argument even matters, as the entire unit has shroud anyway:

 

Shrouded: "A unit that contains at least one model with this special rule counts its cover save as being 2 points better than normal. Note that this means a model with the Shrouded special rule always has a cover save of at least 5+, even if it’s in the open."

Agreed, half the unit has stealth, other half had shrouded. They are a unit as a whole and since both rules state that the unit gains the benefit so long as one model has it I'd say they are good