The DA FAQ request : let's centralize everything guys !

[MagicHat]

Any character can be the Warlord, so if for some obscure reason you don't want Sammael to be it, you can pick, say, the RWCS apothocary. 

He can then re-roll due to First Huntsman.

[Ania Redfang]

Hey guys, the guys at my game store said today that "friendly models" does not include the unit itself in relation to the Ravenshield rule.

This contradicts what I read on here.

 

Is there a page in the rule book or FAQ where it covers rules about affects friendly models, which states clearly if they also effect themselves?

 

I don't know about that but on the page for the Darkshroud it explicitly excludes the Darkshroud from being affected by stealth, which suggests that the general case is that something does count as a "friendly unit" to itself. 

[JJD]

 

 

Well here is a question. Mind you I am coming back to 40K gaming. Have been collecting but haven't played since 5th edition, but want to start to play again.

 

About the Ravenwing Strikeforce. (Sorry if I have the name wrong) So we have the option to take 3 HQ but only if they have the Ravenwing special rule correct? So this only means Sammeal can be the HQ. Isn't there also a rule saying the HQ can reroll their Warlord trait. In the Big Rule Book you have to take your warlord trait if you have been given one and can't roll for one. If we go that Codex over rides rules in BRB, wouldn't this mean that Sammeal can reroll his Warlord trait if you so choose to do so then?

 

Yes I know, you don't roll for your warlord trait, it's picked automatically, but the Ravenwing Strikforce rule (or what ever it's called if I got the name wrong) says you can reroll warlord trait and Codex is greater than BRB, this would allow Sammeal reroll the automatically picked warlord trait, correct? If not, why not? I thought it goes like BRB<Codex<BRB FAQ<Codex FAQ

 

Trying to learn all the rules, and now I am just confusing myself. I want to make sure if I am correct or not.

 

 

I belive this is listed here several times m8, we do want to get this in the FAQ for sure. It is most likely a typo 0-1 type of thing but if not then there needs to be an ability to grant RavenWing to a few of the HQ choices that can take bikes for example.

 

I have read through all 8 pages. I am sure this wasn't brought up. I mean about Sammeal rerolling because codex is greater than BRB. I haven't seen that mentioned at all. 

 

 

Well here is a question. Mind you I am coming back to 40K gaming. Have been collecting but haven't played since 5th edition, but want to start to play again.

 

About the Ravenwing Strikeforce. (Sorry if I have the name wrong) So we have the option to take 3 HQ but only if they have the Ravenwing special rule correct? So this only means Sammeal can be the HQ. Isn't there also a rule saying the HQ can reroll their Warlord trait. In the Big Rule Book you have to take your warlord trait if you have been given one and can't roll for one. If we go that Codex over rides rules in BRB, wouldn't this mean that Sammeal can reroll his Warlord trait if you so choose to do so then?

 

Yes I know, you don't roll for your warlord trait, it's picked automatically, but the Ravenwing Strikforce rule (or what ever it's called if I got the name wrong) says you can reroll warlord trait and Codex is greater than BRB, this would allow Sammeal reroll the automatically picked warlord trait, correct? If not, why not? I thought it goes like BRB<Codex<BRB FAQ<Codex FAQ

 

Trying to learn all the rules, and now I am just confusing myself. I want to make sure if I am correct or not.

 

This would be for an HQ other than Sammael, who's Warlord Trait you correctly identify as not being able to be changed. The problem is, as the rules are written, even though there is an option to takle other HQs in the various Ravenwing Formations, such HQs can only be taken if they have the Ravenwing rule, and none of the HQs other than Sammale have that rule so they cannot be taken.  And so the re-roll the Warlord Trait bit is  basically useless, as there is not viable option for that ruel to apply to. This is likley an (annoying) oversight.

 

Why can't Sammael reroll the warlord trait though? I understand that there is no other HQ with the Ravenwing special rule. It can be an oversight or maybe it's intended and there will be more data slates in a later time like a Campaign or $5 data slates or what not that will have it. Thing is how come Sammael can't reroll? What is stopping from rerolling? 

 

The way I see it like I said, Codex is greater than rulebook so the codex rule over rides the BRB rule. Am I mistaken? If so, why? I am trying to relearn the rules and this is not making any sense to me.

The reason you are struggling to make sense of it is because it is poorly writen and makes no sense. The formation provides options and rules that can not be taken or used.

 

You need to email your request for an FAQ

[Master Avoghai]

Why can't Sammael reroll the warlord trait though? I understand that there is no other HQ with the Ravenwing special rule. It can be an oversight or maybe it's intended and there will be more data slates in a later time like a Campaign or $5 data slates or what not that will have it. Thing is how come Sammael can't reroll? What is stopping from rerolling?

Simply the fact that to re-roll, you need to roll once.

Sammael doesn't roll hence can't re roll.

 

Like said : they've forgotten to make a character on bike gaining rave wing special rule.

[HsojVvad]

Thanks guys for the clarification, greatly appreciated. I just thought (got to stop reading when so tired late at night.) that the codex would over ride the rule in the BRB. 

[twopounder]

 

Hey guys, the guys at my game store said today that "friendly models" does not include the unit itself in relation to the Ravenshield rule.

This contradicts what I read on here.

 

Is there a page in the rule book or FAQ where it covers rules about affects friendly models, which states clearly if they also effect themselves?

 

I don't know about that but on the page for the Darkshroud it explicitly excludes the Darkshroud from being affected by stealth, which suggests that the general case is that something does count as a "friendly unit" to itself. 

 

No, it excludes it from giving stealth directly to itself. Nothing explicitly prevents it from getting stealth. And friendly unit means it can include itself, since it is a unit taken from its own codex or battle brother ally codex.

[ValourousHeart]

The only thing I found in the rule book that I feel clearly answers the question is on page 376 of the digital BRB.

The heading is "Friendly and Enemy Models" in the General Principals section of the rules.

 

It states that all models on the same side are friendly and all models on the opposing side are enemy.

 

I feel that this point is the strongest, because while Blessings work the same way and are worded identically, there will be at least one person that gets in a twist because overwatch and ravenshield are not a blessing.

[Stormxlr]

The only thing I found in the rule book that I feel clearly answers the question is on page 376 of the digital BRB.

The heading is "Friendly and Enemy Models" in the General Principals section of the rules.

 

It states that all models on the same side are friendly and all models on the opposing side are enemy.

 

I feel that this point is the strongest, because while Blessings work the same way and are worded identically, there will be at least one person that gets in a twist because overwatch and ravenshield are not a blessing.

Thanks i was gonna ask for a page for that but I got the mini rule book, can anyone point me to the page this is on(in mini rulebook)?

 

*EDIT*Found it. Page 14 for anyone with a Mini Rulebook.

[shabbadoo]

Hey guys, the guys at my game store said today that "friendly models" does not include the unit itself in relation to the Ravenshield rule.

This contradicts what I read on here.

 

Is there a page in the rule book or FAQ where it covers rules about affects friendly models, which states clearly if they also effect themselves?

 

The Ravenshield rule references "that friendly unit" or "the friendly unit", not "this/itself or another friendly unit", meaning the unit with the Ravenshield rule may shoot at an enemy unit which is assaulting "that friendly unit" or "the friendly unit" within 24" of the Formation, not "itself or a freindly unit" within 24" of the Formation.  It also references "friendly unit", which obviosuly doesn't mean itself. This could be put in the FAQ, but I don't think it is neccessary, as all points of reference point to a different friendly unit within 24", not the Formation itself.

[ValourousHeart]

 

Hey guys, the guys at my game store said today that "friendly models" does not include the unit itself in relation to the Ravenshield rule.

This contradicts what I read on here.

Is there a page in the rule book or FAQ where it covers rules about affects friendly models, which states clearly if they also effect themselves?

 

 

The Ravenshield rule references "that friendly unit" or "the friendly unit", not "this/itself or another friendly unit", meaning the unit with the Ravenshield rule may shoot at an enemy unit which is assaulting "that friendly unit" or "the friendly unit" within 24" of the Formation, not "itself or a freindly unit" within 24" of the Formation.  It also references "friendly unit", which obviosuly doesn't mean itself. This could be put in the FAQ, but I don't think it is neccessary, as all points of reference point to a different friendly unit within 24", not the Formation itself.

If you look at the psychic rules for any power that is a blessing, they are only written in 1 of 2 ways. They either say that the power targets the psycher or they say that the power may target a friendly unit.

 

Not one power ever says that the blessing may target a friendly unit or the psycher.

 

So by your definition, Invisiblity can never be used on the psycher or the unit he has joined.

Is that how you play it or see it played?

 

Now according to the general principals of the game, a friendly unit is any unit/model on your side.

So accordingly, the ravenshield could shoot over watch if itself is charged, or any RW unit within 24 inches is charged.

Also it means if you are playing with a partner, and you have the RWSS, and he has RW units also, you could shoot for him as well, at least if the units being charged

have the RW rule.

[Elios Harg]

In all previous cases, rules that refer to a "friendly unit" have always included the model/unit that contains the special rule. Otherwise, it would be unnecessary to point out that the Dark Shroud does not give itself stealth.

If the rules worked as you are implying, then a company standard would not allow a command squad to re-roll failed morale, pinning and fear tests as it affects "friendly units." Basically, unless otherwise noted a model is always a friendly model to itself and a unit is always a friendly unit to itself. Otherwise a lot of things begin to get wonky such as the standard (indeed all similiar standards) above no longer functioning for the unit carrying it and being unable to target/affect one's own unit with blessings (I.E. Endurance "targets a single friendly unit within 24"." Nothing in the rulebook specifically states that in can affect the casting unit.)

 

Additionally, the wording of the rule is: "When an enemy unit declares a charge against a friendly unit with the Ravenwing special rule, models from this formation this formation within 24" of that friendly unit can choose to fire Overwatch against the charging unit (even though vehicles cannot normally fire Overwatch)." (Codex Dark Angels: e-book edition)

 

It uses the phrase "models from this formation this formation within 24" of that friendly unit" so that we know exactly which models can fire. It has to be models within 24" of the friendly unit which is being charged rather than, say, all of the models in the formation being able to fire as long as one of them is within 24" of the charged unit or all of the models in the formation that are within 24" of the charging unit. 

[Stormxlr]

guys i think we have exhausted the debate regarding " Friendly unit" we already found the page on the BRB and MRB and ERB that states what is a Friendly Unit, no need for further discussion. We are literally going in circles.

[shabbadoo]

 

If you look at the psychic rules for any power that is a blessing, they are only written in 1 of 2 ways. They either say that the power targets the psycher or they say that the power may target a friendly unit.

 

Not one power ever says that the blessing may target a friendly unit or the psycher.

 

So by your definition, Invisiblity can never be used on the psycher or the unit he has joined.

Is that how you play it or see it played?

No, it is not played that way, as there is a whole "Blessings" section which tells us what can be affected by blessings, such that it does not need to mentioned in each power.

 

But, you guys have convinced me that it is a good question for an FAQ.

[Stormxlr]

guys quick question regarding RW Bike Squad, If I take 3 bikers and RW Attack Bike can I still combat squad them? or are they stuck together?

Sorry literally been only playing Deathwing and never touched RW :(

[Liberame]

I think they are stuck unless you go the full 6 bikes and a trike

[palin2222]

I sent my email off a while ago, no reply yet (not that I am expecting one). Has anyone else got a reply yet?

[Master Sheol]

No replies for My 5 mails (from My 5 accounts ofc)...

However i made a gentleman agreement with My friends...

We agreed to play Sammael or another HQ on bike in the RWSF and only if part of the RWSF those HQ characters get the RW special rule...

And about DWSF we agreed to start to roll For reserves from the first tue but only if the DWSF is the only detachment in the army...

[MoonPhoenix]

I sent my email off a while ago, no reply yet (not that I am expecting one). Has anyone else got a reply yet?

 

Nope. Just automatic reply that they will add questions to next FAQ

[MoonPhoenix]

Well, man from our forum also got answer from GW:

 

 

 

Good afternoon,

Thank you very much for your e-mail, and we are really sorry to hear about you are not happy with our recent Dark Angels Codex. 

However, we can inform you that the Ravenwing Head Quarters options may have a mistake which will be amended with an errata. The restriction will be "All units in this Detachment must have the Ravenwing special rule (pg 148) or be a Dark Angels character mounted on a Space Marine bike."

Regarding the Deathwing detachment, you will need to add another detachment to play with it, or agree with your opponent to use it as stand alone or play them as an unbound detachment. If you have more rules queries, we recomend you to forward them to gamefaqs@gwplc.com, the corresponding department will take care of them and may take them in consideration for the next FAQ update.

We hope that this information will help you.

Regards,

Customer Service

[WellSpokenMan]

Hmm, no Ravenwing rule for other ICs so no re-rollable Jink.

[flyingllama]

Hi guys, this post got lost in the rollback, so here it is again.

 

One of the guys on the /r/warhammer subreddit got a reply from GW regarding the Ravenwing Strike Force. Of course this needs to be taken with a grain of salt until we actually see it in an FAQ, but here is what he said.

 

>>Thank you for sending us your query, and we would like to inform you that this was a mistake that will be amended with an errata.

 

>>The restriction will be "All units in this Detachment must have the Ravenwing special rule (pg 148) or be a Dark Angels character mounted on a Space Marine bike."

 

>>We do apologise for any inconvenience that this issue may have caused to you.

 

If this turns out to be true, my question to you is: Would you still take Sammael, or would you swap out for a Librarian/Chaplain/other on Bike?

[WellSpokenMan]

Hi guys, this post got lost in the rollback, so here it is again.

 

One of the guys on the /r/warhammer subreddit got a reply from GW regarding the Ravenwing Strike Force. Of course this needs to be taken with a grain of salt until we actually see it in an FAQ, but here is what he said.

 

>>Thank you for sending us your query, and we would like to inform you that this was a mistake that will be amended with an errata.

 

>>The restriction will be "All units in this Detachment must have the Ravenwing special rule (pg 148) or be a Dark Angels character mounted on a Space Marine bike."

 

>>We do apologise for any inconvenience that this issue may have caused to you.

 

If this turns out to be true, my question to you is: Would you still take Sammael, or would you swap out for a Librarian/Chaplain/other on Bike?

Interrogator Chaplain on a Bike.  I like Sammy, but he's about 20 points overpriced I think.  The Techmarine is the one I keep thinking about giving a shot.  He got a significant stat boost and once you factor in his axe, his points stayed even. 

[Elios Harg]

Sam makes a superior tank due to actually having Ravenwing. However, if you take a Techmarine instead, you can nearly afford another 3-man black knight squad.

[Master Avoghai]

Well, man from our forum also got answer from GW:

 

 

 

 

Good afternoon,

Thank you very much for your e-mail, and we are really sorry to hear about you are not happy with our recent Dark Angels Codex. 

However, we can inform you that the Ravenwing Head Quarters options may have a mistake which will be amended with an errata. The restriction will be "All units in this Detachment must have the Ravenwing special rule (pg 148) or be a Dark Angels character mounted on a Space Marine bike."

Regarding the Deathwing detachment, you will need to add another detachment to play with it, or agree with your opponent to use it as stand alone or play them as an unbound detachment. If you have more rules queries, we recomend you to forward them to gamefaqs@gwplc.com, the corresponding department will take care of them and may take them in consideration for the next FAQ update.

We hope that this information will help you.

Regards,

Customer Service

I really don't see the point of the Redemption Force vs the Strike Force then...

 

You enter turn 2 with both

You cannot take Land Raiders with both

You cannot take squads of venerables with both

 

The only difference is that the Redemption Force can be play in a Lion's Blade and the strike force can be composed exclusively of DW knights...

 

They missed the occasion to make 2 type of play... II'm tired of the unbound excuse

[twopounder]

 

Well, man from our forum also got answer from GW:

 

 

 

Good afternoon,

Thank you very much for your e-mail, and we are really sorry to hear about you are not happy with our recent Dark Angels Codex. 

However, we can inform you that the Ravenwing Head Quarters options may have a mistake which will be amended with an errata. The restriction will be "All units in this Detachment must have the Ravenwing special rule (pg 148) or be a Dark Angels character mounted on a Space Marine bike."

Regarding the Deathwing detachment, you will need to add another detachment to play with it, or agree with your opponent to use it as stand alone or play them as an unbound detachment. If you have more rules queries, we recomend you to forward them to gamefaqs@gwplc.com, the corresponding department will take care of them and may take them in consideration for the next FAQ update.

We hope that this information will help you.

Regards,

Customer Service

I really don't see the point of the Redemption Force vs the Strike Force then...

 

You enter turn 2 with both

You cannot take Land Raiders with both

You cannot take squads of venerables with both

 

The only difference is that the Redemption Force can be play in a Lion's Blade and the strike force can be composed exclusively of DW knights...

 

They missed the occasion to make 2 type of play... II'm tired of the unbound excuse

 

 

A DRF can be taken in a lion's blade, giving it supreme fire discipline. 10x terminators with assault cannons/cyclones that overwatch at full BS is pretty good.