Alternate Legion - The Scions Hospitalier

[simison]

Well, apart from the Primarch, I think this is the one thats going to make you go "BUT WHY!?" the most when it comes to a single, specific piece of gear...

 

Oh joy.

[simison]

Inna Santor

 

Comparison Base: Lord Marshal (70 pts)

 

Attributes

• -1 WS/BS/LD: (-15) points 
  
• +1 T/W: 20 points
  

Total: 5 points

 

Wargear

• Artificer Armour: 20 points
  
• Iron Halo: 10 points
  
• Archaeotech Pistol: 20 points
  
• Paragon Blade: 25 points
  
• Master-Crafted: 10 points
  
• The Saviour (Narthecium): 35 points
  
• The Saviour (Weapon Profile): 50 points
  
• Rad Grenades: 5 points
  

Total: 170 points

 

Special Rules

• Eternal Warrior vs Household Retinue: (-5) points
  
• Fearless vs High Command: (-10) points
  
• Master of the Legion vs Forged in War: 0 points
  
• Fleet vs Close Formation Fighting: 10 points
  
• Harvesting Test Subjects vs Disciplined Fire: 10 points
  
• Not An Astartes vs Disciplined Command: (-5 points)
  

 

Total: 0 points

 

Total cost: 175 points

 

Recommend overall cost: 245 points

 

Notes: 

• How does Inna have Toughness 4 without some serious cybernetic work? For that matter, how does she have 4 wounds, which is twice the amount a Centurion has?
  
• Why a Master-Crafted Paragon Blade?
  
• *reads over The Saviour* BUT, WHY!?
  
• Before I forget, unit stat upgrades are cheap in bulk since I only double the cost. There seems to be a similar trend when it comes to gear, being cheaper for weaker sergeants as opposed to the more elite officers. I should add this note to the Calculator after I've made this post.
  
• Why does Inna have Eternal Warrior?
  
• Why does she have Master of the Legion if she also has Not An Astartes?
  
• You broke the Redd barrier...again!
  

[Slips]

\o/ Told you. This was just a very wild idea that I decided to roll with lol.

 

• Remove Eternal Warrior. She had it before we went about limiting it.
• When a Primarch is working on making you a better human, I think you're in pretty good hands :P Also, probably tie the +1T to her Artificer Armour.
• Maybe Cut the MC'd Paragon to a Wave Blade.
• Remove Wound Bonus from Savior. Waaaaaaay too clunky and can produce some MASSIVE shenanigans if used right.
• MOTL + NAA = A  different way of going about a Support Officer that can bring RoWs like the Herald Consul. IE: shes non-compulsory unless shes the only HQ in your Army, more or less.
• Remove Weapon Profile from Savior. Doesn't really need it and technically gives her +1A which makes her fightier than I envisioned.
• 3 Wounds would be fine. But again, Primarch Shenanigans.
• Just make Savior a 4+ FNP and maybe make poisoned and fleshbane wound the unit on no better than a 4+? Make it strong but not STUPID strong?

[simison]

Inna Santor

 

Comparison Base: Lord Marshal (70 pts)

 

Attributes

• -1 WS/BS/LD: (-15) points 
  
• +1 T: 10 points
  

Total: (-5) points

 

Wargear

• Artificer Armour: 20 points
  
• Iron Halo: 10 points
  
• Archaeotech Pistol: 20 points
  
• Paragon Blade: 25 points
  
• The Saviour (Narthecium): 20 points
  
• Rad Grenades: 5 points
  

Total: 100 points

 

Special Rules

• Household Retinue: (-25) points
  
• Fearless vs High Command: (-10) points
  
• Master of the Legion vs Forged in War: 0 points
  
• Fleet vs Close Formation Fighting: 10 points
  
• Harvesting Test Subjects vs Disciplined Fire: 10 points
  
• Not An Astartes vs Disciplined Command: (-5 points)
  

 

Total: (-20) points

 

Total cost: 75 points

 

Recommend overall cost: 145 points

 

• This is how it stands with a 4+ FNP but no bonus against Fleshbane/Poison. She's much more reasonable. The only thing I'd personally consider is dropping the Paragon Blade for something weaker to make her a cheaper support character since she's only going to be so-so in CC anyway. But I can understand the fact that as the Primarch's sister, she's going to have dibs on the Bling of War. 
  
• So, if you want to add the bonuses against Fleshbane/Poison, I'd estimate it'd be 15 points for the upgrade. 10 points if it's no better than a 3+. 
  

[Slips]

Either a Paragon Blade or Wave Blade, imo just to tie it to the Legion and or position.

 

For the Savior, lets call it 3+, sure.

[Doctor Perils]

IE: shes non-compulsory unless shes the only HQ in your Army, more or less.

Oo errr... how is she"non-compulsory" then? I thought non-compulsory only came into play so that a unit could not be taken on its own. This feels a bit like saying: support squads are non-compulsory, as long as they aren't one of the only two troop units ^^

[Slips]

 

IE: shes non-compulsory unless shes the only HQ in your Army, more or less.

Oo errr... how is she"non-compulsory" then? I thought non-compulsory only came into play so that a unit could not be taken on its own. This feels a bit like saying: support squads are non-compulsory, as long as they aren't one of the only two troop units ^^

 

Non compulsory means that it cant be used to fill your compulsory FoC Slots (1HQ, 2 Troops).

 

So, if you have Inna and a Primus Medicae consul, both are non-compulsory HQs because 1 is a Support Officer (Primus) and Inna has a special rule preventing her from being so when taking another HQ. Meaning you'd need either: A Praetor, Forge Lord, Chaplain, Legion Champion, Vigilator, SIege Breaker or Delegatus in this example as a 3rd HQ Selection for the force to be Legal.

 

Take Inna as a solo HQ choice in your army and no problem.

 

Support Squads have the Support Squad rule meaning that they're ineligible for being a compulsory troops selection when building an army meaning you need 2 Tacitcal, Assault or Breacher Squads (or whatever else gets shifted to troops by RoW or Characters) before you can even take a single Support Squad for your list to be legal.

Edited January 11, 2017 by Slipstreams

[Doctor Perils]

Aaaah, I sometimes forget about the 3rd hq slot in 30k... don't mind me :P

[simison]

Since Thorn's concerns have been adequately addressed, I approve of Inna and will send her up to Grifft. 

 

Next is Antonidas.

[simison]

Antonidas

 

Comparison Base: Praetor (100 pts)

 

Attributes

• +1 W: 10 points
  

Total: 10 points

 

Wargear

• Iron Halo: 25 points
  
• Obscura-Pattern Jump Pack: 30 points
  
• Volkite Serpenta: 5 points
  
• Hoarfrost: (Paragon Blade [25] + MS 5⁺ [10] + Chill of the Void [15]) 50 points
  
• Hardened Aritificer Armour: 10 points
  

Total: 120 points

 

Special Rules

• Spector of Anatolia: 40 points
  

 

Total: 40 points

 

Total cost: 170 points

 

Recommend overall cost: 270 points

 

• Once again, Hardened armour or not? 
  
• Why did you put in Deep Strike in the special rule?
  
• Guess who broke the Redd barrier again? 
  

[Slips]

Reduce Murderous Strike back down to a 6+.

 

No need for Hardened Armour, honestly.

 

I have this weird need for redundancy apparently. Deep Strike can go since the JP has it.

 

He is First Captain so I kinda want to have him keep the 4th wound. But otherwise, this is the dude where I'm unsure as to where to make suitable cost reductions.

[simison]

250 so far. And, I agree, he's pretty well-streamlined given his stats. Hm, the only thing I can think of is to purposefully undercost something, but that's unfair since he already has a unique rule and weapon. Losing the serpenta would only save 5 points. Looking over Abaddon, another first captain, he only uses a slightly nicer armour and a couple of minor special rules. So, I recommend either removing the Specter or Chill of the Void rule. 

[Slips]

In that case, I'd nix the Chill rule, honestly.

[bluntblade]

Reminds me I need to send Griff the updated fluff on Antonidas. I was also wondering if his old mini-blurb should go, cos it makes him sound like he hunts down and murders any Scions who disagree with him.

[Slips]

Yeah, It probably will :p

[simison]

In that case, I'd nix the Chill rule, honestly.

 

Combined with the serpenta removal, that brings Antonidas down to 230 points. Expensive, he's only ten more points that Odyssalas, but serviceable. 

 

Well, that just leaves the Ocean Walker himself. Since there's no such thing as a base Primarch, who should I compare Santor too?

[Slips]

Uuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

 

 

Mortarion or Vulkan probably?

[simison]

Pionus Santor

 

Comparison Base: Mortarion (425 pts)

 

Attributes

• +1 I: 10 points
  
• +1 A: 5 points
  
• -1 W: 10 points
  

Total: 5 points

 

Wargear

• Leviathan (Melee) vs Silence
  
• +1 S: 5 points
  
• Haywire vs Sunder: (-5) points
  
• Disembowel vs Reaping Blow: 20 points
  
• Leviathan (Ranged) vs The Lantern
  
• Range (15' vs 18'): (-5) points
  
• Pinning, Blast, & Haywire vs Sunder: 10 points
  
• Opalescent Ward vs. Barbaran Plate
  
• +1 Invul Save: 15 points
  
• Initiative Penalty Immunity: 15 points
  
• Conditional Enemy Shooting Strength Reducer: 5 points
  
• Gravitation Overlord: 40 points
  
• Plasma Grenades versus Frag Grenades: 5 points 
  
• Ultima Narthecium Array vs Phosphex Bombs
  
• Rerollable FNP: 10 points
  
• Conditional FNP saves against Instand Death: 15 points
  
• Depthstrider Eternal Warrior upgrade: 40 points
  
• Personal FNP vs Phosphex Bombs: (-15) points
  
• Twice rerollable IWND: 10 points
  

Total: 165 points

 

Special Rules

• Sires vs Sires
  
• LD buff vs. Stubborn: 0 points
  
• SGT Nartheciums vs Poisoned Grenades: 5 points
  
• Troop Depthstriders/Phantoms: 20 points
  
• Beacon of Salvation vs. Witch-Sprite: 15 points
  
• Crashing Wave vs. Preternatural Resilience
  
• D3 HoW vs. Rerollable T tests/IWND: (-10) points
  
• AP4 HoW vs Auto-Pass Dangerous Tests: 5 points
  
• Rerollable Charge vs. Reduce Poison/Fleshbane to 6: (-10) points
  
• Enveloping Sea vs Shadow of the Reaper
  
• Overwatch with Blast Weapon vs Stronger Fear: 0 points
  
• BS 3 Overwatch vs. Shadow Teleport: 0 points
  

 

Total: 25 points

 

Total cost: 195 points

 

Recommend overall cost:  points

 

• Between Disembowel and the Initiative thing, the extra bookkeeping is getting higher.
  
• *reads Gravitation Overlord* ..... *glares at Slips*
  
• *reads Ultima Narthecium Array* ..... *even more glaring at Slips* I'm not even to the special rules yet!
  
• Warmaster barrier broken into tiny, tiny pieces.
  

[Slips]

I will say that he's already been slightly toned down already from his original form :P

 

So....Yeah.

 

Few things:

• Remove the Eternal Warrior and FNP vs ID thing. Too clunky. A 4+ Rerollable FNP is fine for Primarch-Grade stuff.
• Remove Haywire from his CC Attacks. OR Remove Disembowel and keep Haywire.
• Remember that Mortarion can ALWAYS reroll his IWND compared to Pionus who gets 2 per game. Though I did see this calculated later.
• Remove Sergeant getting a Narthecium Upgrade thing. For the most part, the squads will have an apothecary with them anyways and it cuts down on bookkeeping.
• Graviton Overload: Just make it a Bog Standard Graviton Cannon shot centered on Pionus with Ap3.
• I'd Personally remove Enveloping Sea as a rule, honestly.

[simison]

It's bedtime for me, so I'll implement those changes tomorrow. I just wanted to say one thing...

 

THIS WAS THE TONED DOWN VERSION!?

[Slips]

Yes.

 

Lets just say he might have had T8, W7 with a 3++ and 3+ FNP(rerollable) at one point.

Edited January 13, 2017 by Slipstreams

[simison]

Pionus Santor

 

Comparison Base: Mortarion (425 pts)

 

Attributes

• +1 I: 10 points
  
• +1 A: 5 points
  
• -1 W: 10 points
  

Total: 5 points

 

Wargear

• Leviathan (Melee) vs Silence
  
• +1 S: 5 points
  
• Sunder: (-20) points
  
• Disembowel vs Reaping Blow: 15 points
  
• Leviathan (Ranged) vs The Lantern
  
• Range (15' vs 18'): (-5) points
  
• Pinning, Blast, & Haywire vs Sunder: 10 points
  
• Opalescent Ward vs. Barbaran Plate
  
• +1 Invul Save: 15 points
  
• Initiative Penalty Immunity: 15 points
  
• Conditional Enemy Shooting Strength Reducer: 5 points
  
• Gravitation Overlord: 50 points
  
• Plasma Grenades versus Frag Grenades: 5 points 
  
• Ultima Narthecium Array vs Phosphex Bombs
  
• Rerollable FNP: 10 points
  
• Personal FNP vs Phosphex Bombs: (-15) points
  
• Twice rerollable IWND: 10 points
  

Total: 100 points

 

Special Rules

• Sires vs Sires
  
• LD buff vs. Stubborn: 0 points
  
• Poisoned Grenades: (-15) points
  
• Troop Depthstriders/Phantoms: 20 points
  
• Beacon of Salvation vs. Witch-Sprite: 15 points
  
• Crashing Wave vs. Preternatural Resilience
  
• D3 HoW vs. Rerollable T tests/IWND: (-10) points
  
• AP4 HoW vs Auto-Pass Dangerous Tests: 5 points
  
• Rerollable Charge vs. Reduce Poison/Fleshbane to 6: (-10) points
  
• Shadow of the Reaper: (-25) points
  

 

Total: (-20) points

 

Total cost: 85 points

 

Recommend overall cost: 510 points

 

• I removed Haywire because Disembowel better encapsulates the uniqueness of a trident. Why was there Haywire? 
  
• Gravitation Cannon is 35 points. Making it AP 3 brings it to 40 points. But since you can fire it in CC, that's an extra 10 points. Does it wound friendlies? Wait, do the debuffs remain too? I'd subtract about 30 points if that's the case. 
  
• Why does Leviathan have a Blast template?
  
• There's a rule about jump primarchs, no invul above 4++. I ran into this problem with Daer'dd. Something with that much resilience can't be that well defended, especially with a FNP save added in. That's 15 points there, which brings Santor to 495, minus the Gravitation blast question. 
  
• I can see D3 HoW since Santor's fast, but why AP4? 
  
• Given the sheer uniqueness of the gravitation blast, I'd drop the enemy shooting debuff. 
  
• Subtracting 3' off of Leviathan's range would shave off another 5 points. 
  

[Slips]

• Honestly, it just had strong electrical discharges whenever it hit something which could cause havoc to electrical systems. Removal of Haywire is fine.

The Debuff of it isn't permanent, it lasts until his next turn but it does hit everything under the blast making it more of a risk thing to activate. Also One Use Only per game.

Same reasoning as the Haywire: big 'ol discharge of energy. If you remove Haywire, remove Blast.

Ap4 since I don't think Solar Auxilia Humans armor should be helping them all that much vs a Primarch ramming into them. 3+ saves (Power Armour for the most part) should be able to stand up to it but they can still fail the save.

Fair on the Shooting Debuff.

12" brings it in line with most Primarch Guns barring those that have 24" 'Bolter' Weapons.

[simison]

• Ah, I thought there might be something electrical going on, but there wasn't anything mentioned in the weapon description.
• Sorry, I didn't meant to imply that the debuff was permanent. Since the One Use Only affects both boom and debuff, it cancels each other out. Since it can hit friendly units, I'm going to reduce the weapon to just 10 points since it's essentially an 'Oh Crap' button. So, 50 points drops to 10, which means Santor's cost drops to 460. 
• Removing Blast from Leviathan is an additional 5 points, now 455.
• Alright, I'll leave the AP 4 HoW. 
• Removing the shooting debuff is another 5 points and removes some bookkeeping. 450 points.
• Finally, reducing Leviathan's range to 12' brings Pionus down to 445 points.

 

445, how does that sound?

Actually, that Gravitation Overload needs to make its way into Pionus' ambush. That could be one key reason the Drowned aren't able to finish him off when he activates it.

[Slips]

445 sounds much better!

 

Also, yeah storywise that was one of the ideas behind him having it.