MikhalLeNoir Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 Eagle Warriors, not Void Eagles. Gives me a headache all the time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Perils Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 (edited) The loyalists are the Crimson Lions. The 3rd traitpr legion is the Eagle Warriors who are guiding the Berzerkers of Uran down the path to become Khornes chosen legion. Thørn, the reason there are two astartes detacents for either side is that for the loyalists, it's been agreed that the Halycon Wardens were placed on garrison duty throughout the Imperium. It would make sense for some to be there. The Iron Bears are there because I feel excell at this kind of fighting and this is where a pirtion them ended up after they were scattered after Dear'dds death(I'm assuming they'll behave like a canon legion when their primarch dies) On the traitor side, the Warbringers are there to give them some screen time as I haven't seen them recieve much. They're meant to be the majority of the invasion force. The Lightning Bearers are there because I doubt that Icarion would send this invasion force for a world this important without at least some of his own legion to oversee it. Okay, fair enough. I don't think that it's necessary for the Lightning bearers to be there en force, but it does seem logical for some officers or equerries to be sent with the Warbringers For the Iron Bears, I think we can justify it by saying that they want to rearm after taking a beating and loosing their primarch, but as you say, they would probably act like a shattered legion, so probably a company at best. I was also thinking that both sides could adopt the same honour marking for surviving this campaign. Here's another idea (more controversial I think): The battle could end in a truce when they all understand that this war is going nowhere ? "We are Space Marines, not barbarians!" Of course, the officers in charge would be severely (read terminally) reprimanded for this action. Two sides agreeing that they've both lost seems like it would leave an even bitterer taste in the mouth... EDIT: truce idea for this Battle of the Forge. Edited September 4, 2015 by Lord Thørn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigismund229 Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 That could be a solution for shortening the war(I agree that 5 years is a ridiculously long campaign). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praefectus Invictus Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 (edited) Ok, how 'bout this? Loyalists Void Eagles Crimson lions (shattered) Iron Bears (shattered) Traitors Stygian Jackals (en masse) Berserkers of Uran (en masse Eagle Warriors Lightning Bearers (logistics/strategy) Warbringers EDIT: forgot the Warbringers. Are they still part of the shadow crusade? Edited September 4, 2015 by Praefectus Invictus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikhalLeNoir Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 A truce and then they bid farewell? and just in the moment the loyalists try the warpjump, alexos opens fire and destroys a lot of the fleet. well, that is something alexos would do, to stay in character. No, seriously, don't mention it. Reputations, you know— a lifetime to build, seconds to destroy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Perils Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 Ok, how 'bout this? Loyalists Void Eagles Crimson lions (shattered) Iron Bears (shattered) Traitors Stygian Jackals (en masse) Berserkers of Uran (en masse Eagle Warriors Lightning Bearers (logistics/strategy) Warbringers EDIT: forgot the Warbringers. Are they still part of the shadow crusade? I think this may be a bit much. I'd limit it to the two Legions en masse, more like canon Shadow Crusade. Once again, keep it simple ! The only battles where so many Legions are present for me are the Qarith Triumph, the Drop Site EQ, and the Siege of Terra. A truce and then they bid farewell? and just in the moment the loyalists try the warpjump, alexos opens fire and destroys a lot of the fleet. well, that is something alexos would do, to stay in character. No, seriously, don't mention it. Reputations, you know— a lifetime to build, seconds to destroy. The truce would be more for the battle of the forge world (call it Battle of the Forge ?), so Alexos wouldn't be there. I think Halcyon Wardens and Iron Bears could be persuaded to go this course, I'm not sure about the Warbringers: I haven't seen much of them, but they seem to be a sort of "noble traitor" if you see what I mean ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praefectus Invictus Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 Ok, how 'bout this? Loyalists Void Eagles Crimson lions (shattered) Iron Bears (shattered) Traitors Stygian Jackals (en masse) Berserkers of Uran (en masse Eagle Warriors Lightning Bearers (logistics/strategy) Warbringers EDIT: forgot the Warbringers. Are they still part of the shadow crusade? I think this may be a bit much. I'd limit it to the two Legions en masse, more like canon Shadow Crusade. Once again, keep it simple ! The only battles where so many Legions are present for me are the Qarith Triumph, the Drop Site EQ, and the Siege of Terra. I don't know the intended strengths for the Warbringers and Eagle Warriors at the moment, so I've left them unnumbered. I did have the intention for the Eagle Warriors to be shattered, but their primarch is present, and I don't know what the Warbringers are really doing in this crusade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raktra Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 I can't see a truce really being called when part of the objective is to warp a legion to Khorne, it just doesn't gel right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Perils Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 I can't see a truce really being called when part of the objective is to warp a legion to Khorne, it just doesn't gel right. The truce idea was for the Battle of the Forge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raktra Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 Derp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigismund229 Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 (edited) Void Eagles aren't present for the shadow crusade, at least not in any more than a few companies. The Crimson Lions aren't shattered, they've taken serious losses but are still far from done. Plus the Shadow Crusade takes place on their home turf. The Warbringers are busy with other matters, so are the Lightning Warriors although some equerries may be present. The Berzerkers of Uran are there en masse, so are the Stygian Jackals if you like. The Eagle Warriors could still be there in 1/4 or 1/3 strength and be a significant enough force for the part they play. What you've then got is a major action but one that's fairly reasonably sized. I suggest the numbers to be something like as follows Berzerkers of Uran: 80-120k(assuming 1/3 stayed loyal and they lost a 10k+/- earlier) Stygian Jackals: 70-80k(assuming losses and other deployments) Eagle Warriors: 40-60k.(probably fewer but I'll leave that for AO108 to decide) Crimson Lions: 50k(essentialy total strength) Iron Bears: 10k(given the close brotherhood between the two I thought a significant number would choose to stand alongside the Lions) Other remnants and detachements: 5-10k Edited September 4, 2015 by Sigismund229 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphariusOmegon108 Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 (edited) Eagle warriors probs only around 10k attached to that cusade. We are like the word bearers in this BoLverse, so we only are there to inspire others to greater acts of treachery (And to maybe help Alexos as a kind of bodyguard unit to help the primarch change someone to become a deamon prince http://image.bolterandchainsword.com//public/style_emoticons/default/msn-wink.gif) Edited September 4, 2015 by AlphariusOmegon108 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Captain Redd Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 Sigismund knows my legion too well, I would suggest Lord Chief Ezibikenh "Ezekiel" Spinebreaker's 2nd Grand Wartribe they would have lost close to 2/3rds their number at Daer'dd's death. And they're the trench fighters of the legion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigismund229 Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 Right so for the Shadow Crusade we have the following information: Takes place in the galactic north east near the eye of terror in the Crimsin Lions empire. On the traitor side we have the Berzerkers of Uran and Jackals representes in near full strength along with their primarch, 80k-120k and 70-80k respectively along with the 10k Eagle Warriors accompanying Alexos. For the loyalists we have the Crimson Lions in near full strength(after losses) with 50k, a significant Iron Bears detachement numbering 10k(Is that about right Redd?) and 5k-10k other remnants of shattered battle compaies from various legions. Am I right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skalpynock Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 The truce would be more for the battle of the forge world (call it Battle of the Forge ?), so Alexos wouldn't be there. I think Halcyon Wardens and Iron Bears could be persuaded to go this course, I'm not sure about the Warbringers: I haven't seen much of them, but they seem to be a sort of "noble traitor" if you see what I mean ? The Warbringers command would probably see it this way: there is nothing to fight for anymore. If we keep on fighting, we will spend years struggling, and be left with a useless rock and three squads still alive. No need to annihilate the loyalists, especially if we can turn them to our cause later. Better cease this senseless meat-grinder, and continue to push to Terra. Now, I don't know if at this time Kozja is still on the battlefield, if he has withdrawn to create the True Legion, or if this is their first deployment. Will have to expand on the idea, the basics being marines made from a splicing of all 18 geneseeds scavenged on various battlefields since Vizenko, but proving far too costly to be effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Captain Redd Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 10-11k would be pretty spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigismund229 Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 Just had a thought. How about, as part of the Shadow Crusade, the traitor primarchs undergo a "pilgrimage" to the EoT(given that he Crimson Lions empire is essentialy right next door to it) and then are attacked by the Imperials on Cadia and during that battle Raktra ascends? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Perils Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 Sigismund knows my legion too well, I would suggest Lord Chief Ezibikenh "Ezekiel" Spinebreaker's 2nd Grand Wartribe they would have lost close to 2/3rds their number at Daer'dd's death. And they're the trench fighters of the legion. Would this be for the Battle of the Forge or "Shadow" Crusade ? Right so for the Shadow Crusade we have the following information: Takes place in the galactic north east near the eye of terror in the Crimsin Lions empire. On the traitor side we have the Berzerkers of Uran and Jackals representes in near full strength along with their primarch, 80k-120k and 70-80k respectively along with the 10k Eagle Warriors accompanying Alexos. For the loyalists we have the Crimson Lions in near full strength(after losses) with 50k, a significant Iron Bears detachement numbering 10k(Is that about right Redd?) and 5k-10k other remnants of shattered battle compaies from various legions. Am I right? I'm afraid these odds might be slightly too one-sided: yes, the Crimson Lions are on homeground, but three times as many troops, especially when considering you have three Primarchs against one, and that they have the benefit of chaos jiggerypokery. But that's just my take. The truce would be more for the battle of the forge world (call it Battle of the Forge ?), so Alexos wouldn't be there. I think Halcyon Wardens and Iron Bears could be persuaded to go this course, I'm not sure about the Warbringers: I haven't seen much of them, but they seem to be a sort of "noble traitor" if you see what I mean ? The Warbringers command would probably see it this way: there is nothing to fight for anymore. If we keep on fighting, we will spend years struggling, and be left with a useless rock and three squads still alive. No need to annihilate the loyalists, especially if we can turn them to our cause later. Better cease this senseless meat-grinder, and continue to push to Terra. Now, I don't know if at this time Kozja is still on the battlefield, if he has withdrawn to create the True Legion, or if this is their first deployment. Will have to expand on the idea, the basics being marines made from a splicing of all 18 geneseeds scavenged on various battlefields since Vizenko, but proving far too costly to be effective. Yeah, so you'd definitely be in favour of just going away, even if there isn't an official truce ? Just had a thought. How about, as part of the Shadow Crusade, the traitor primarchs undergo a "pilgrimage" to the EoT(given that he Crimson Lions empire is essentialy right next door to it) and then are attacked by the Imperials on Cadia and during that battle Raktra ascends? Seems logical, at least for Raktra. I don't know if Jackel would go to the Eye itself though ? Cadia could be the site of a horrendous massacre (Buchery of Cadia, Cadian Carnage...) which is where Jackel finally sees the madness of the side he's fighting for, and changes sides ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigismund229 Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 (edited) The Cadian Massacre? As for the odds in the Shadow crusade, up until the closing months of it the traitors aren't going to be using all that much chaos jiggery pokery as they haven't been fully corrupted yet so it's more likely to be standard legion warfare. To adress the numbers, we could include another major force(Note: not entire legion. That many full legions in one place would be bordering on ridiculous whem there's a galactic civil war going on) led by a loyal primarch? Perhaps one of them is worried about what Hectarion might do following Dear'dds death or simply wants to help the CL. Possibly the Void Eagles and Yucahu? Also, for Iyacrax, of there's gonna be a truce, perhaps we/I shouldn't essentialy exterminate the world? Maybe it should run closer to Thørns original idea whereby the two sodes fight each other to a standstill after the landings and the destruction is caused(apart from by massed armoured warfare) by both sides using orbital bombardments a tonne and withdrawing whatever possible from manufactories that the enemy is about to take before blowing them up. After 2 years of that I'd say the world ought to be pretty wrecked. Edited September 4, 2015 by Sigismund229 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raktra Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 A heavy Mechanicum force, maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 Would make sense for a Primaris-Grade Forgeworld to have a Titan Legion and pretty Significant detachment of Giant Stompy Non-Titan Robots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Squig Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 Did somebody say stompy robots? I like this already! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigismund229 Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 (edited) Ok, a few people seem to be getting confused. The Shadow Crusade and the battle of the Forge are two seperate engagements. The battle of the Forge does not take place in the Shadow Crusade. The Shadow Crusade is the berzerkers and jackals running amuk across the Crimson Lions empire and ending with Raktra's ascendence to demon prince. The battle of the Forge is a 2 year war of attrition fought with the Warbringers on one side and a mix of Iron Bears and Halycon Wardens(as wells significant Mechanucum forces obviously) on the other. Edited September 4, 2015 by Sigismund229 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Captain Redd Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 2nd Grand Wartribe for the Shadow Crusade. Then the 3rd leading their survivors and disparate elements of the Totem Guard, 1st, 2nd, and 5th Grand Wartribes for the Battle of the Forge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praefectus Invictus Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 Instead of having the shadow crusade "begin" on cadia, maybe have it as the ending note. Raktra and Jackel have carved through the crimson lions empire, and end up at the eye of terror, and cadia. Jackel doesn't want to go in, and insists that they head to terra to join Icarion. Raktra, unbeknownst to him, feels khornes calling and gets all hyped up to go inside. Only one thing stands in his way. Cadia. And so ends the Shadow Crusade, and the Cadian Massacre ensues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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