[HH1.0] Mechanicum Tactica

[Charlo]

I have to admit that the more time passes, the more I want to repurpose my cybernetica to ordo reductor. I'm hoping Inferno can turn that around.

 

Rumour has it psychic bots... So who knows?

[Mango Polo]

That's why I'm waiting. Zhao-Arkkad being a cybernetica world ought to provide some interesting toys.

[Plaguecaster]

Not really tactics but does anyone have the instructions for the castellax battle Automata they could scan / take pics off and send it to me. Brought one online but it didn't come with instructions

Thanks

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Just google it dude, its like the first result (a Reddit thread I think)

 

On the subject of tactics, took two of the bees (Vultarax robots) out for a spin last Sunday in a 2v2. Sweet Omnissiah they are death incarnate to vehicles. Took down a Malcador Turn 1 with completely average rolls, and started cleaning my way through the multiple Dracosans. Had to call it at Turn 3 because of time (early start next morning for my team mate and one of my opponents). Darkfire Castellax did okay, but alone they're not able to handle Superheavies or high AV like the bees. I'd say they're an auto-include in Cybernetica, but Taghmata is probably better with Lightning-Primaris (more flexible) and Reductor have Siege Batteries they can tailor to kill anything. But Cybernetica really need a Spartan/Leviathan/Superheavy hard counter, and the Vultarax delivers in spades. It's anti-infantry rockets are okay, but its not the main draw. The Heavy 3 Haywire gun (Heavy 6 with 'Destruction' buff) is brutal. 

 

I did get one of them faceplanted by a lucky Sicarian Venator shot, but thankfully Rite of Celerity took it back to full wounds and it was flying again. The lack of invul is a bit annoying, but they can always Jink. Flare shield is ok, its not as a big deal as people think (you're generally eating high Strength anyway). The Arachnus lascannon is out for Deredeos now, so I'm expecting to face that soon enough. 

[Mango Polo]

The Arachnus' exoshock rule does nothing against non-vehicles, so that's rather nice. 

[Reclusiarch Darius]

So Porphyrion is out. Thoughts?

 

I still prefer the Atrapos for general mass-carnage, but as an artillery piece its disgustingly effective. Even more so when you hide a Cyber-Occularis next to it for Interceptor :^)  oh and I forgot, it gets Blessed Autosimulcra for free in a Mechanicum list. 

Edited December 19, 2016 by Reclusiarch Darius

[Charlo]

Big guns never tire yo. I think there is some great opportunity in cybernetica as they can't bring reductor artillery etc, so it gives you pie plates not on a Thanatar body.

 

The ease of repairs available on a Mechanicum list also makes it a bigger threat as you could easily heal 2 to 3 HP a turn. Interceptor as you said also ensures its survival from deep striking attackers and jets.

[Withershadow]

I don't think Cybernetica can take it. It's only available to Taghmata forces and Knights.

[Vaz]

Curious, our rule book page 22, is that an official model for Scoria. OR just a really badass conversion?

 

Further, I do feel like 2x the drone really is a strong addition to any list. It gives you a great deal of haywire on a very mobile and durable platform. It should be able to handle most issues presented to the army. Allowing other elements to take on elite infantry. 

 

Also, I have 40 cyborgs at this point. Would people run 2 big blobs for objectives?

[unerde]

Taghmata is just the main-word for mechanicum. You can take the knight in every army which can take knights.

[Nusquam]

Yeah the sections on the different ordos of admech don't even have LoW rules. The ordos function more like the specific legions/RoWs that use the parent Marine list(Taghmata equivalent).

 

Besides all those boxes do is effectively slide their stand-alone data sheet into the army lists. When the books get their next update to include them the Pory won't have it because it won't need it, and all the Atrapos will have is a 1 per 2k limit when you read it from the knight list.  The Atrapos won't even have a box when it's put into the AdMech book.

[disease]

you can give the porphyron a household rank if i am correct:  

 

with preceptor :

tank hunter, interceptor, can overwatch with any and all ranged weapons

 

with implacable:

special save against melta bombs

 

with Senshal:

+1 WS, +1 BS and +1 to ion shield making a 3++

 (costs a lot of pts though)

[Mango Polo]

You can't overwatch blast weapons, so Preceptor is entirely wasted on the Porphy (and it doesn't give tank hunter).

 

Arbalester is the one that gives tank hunter and overall seems like a too rank for the Porphy, along with Seneschal :)

Edited December 21, 2016 by Mango Polo

[disease]

You can't overwatch blast weapons, so Preceptor is entirely wasted on the Porphy (and it doesn't give tank hunter).

 

Arbalester is the one that gives tank hunter and overall seems like a too rank for the Porphy, along with Seneschal

 

 

My mistake with tank hunter, I meant Interceptor. 

 

I dont have the book to hand, but i'm sure it says may overwatch even if not normally able to with that weapon

[Mango Polo]

Super-heavy walkers don't get to overwatch, the Preceptor gives an exception in the form of "may fire Overwatch with any eligible weapons until the next player turn." So no benefits for the Porphy's main armaments since blast weapons are not eligible.

 

Would have been quite nice otherwise.

Edited December 21, 2016 by Mango Polo

[Sol_Invictus]

What do you guys think about running Demolisher cannons on Ordo Reductor artillery tanks? You can get three of them with siege plating and machine spirit for only 360 pts. Anybody have any experience with them?

[Withershadow]

Why demolisher when you can take Medusas?

[Sol_Invictus]

Well they're a ~100 pts cheaper for 3 of them but yeah that's kind of the point of my asking. Just wondering if anyone runs them or if everybody always goes for the medusas.

[N1SB]

Why demolisher when you can take Medusas?

 

 

As counter-intuitive as it sounds (even to me), I myself am torn on this issue.

 

Why take something that'll get shot up over something I can hide in back, right?

 

The reasons are to draw fire/attacks/attention from something else, distract opponents by putting a juicy target in front of them, and block lines of sight/movement.  All of these issues have come up, and more than once I've wished I had something I could sacrifice in the mid-field just to protect something else, which is what a Demolisher Cannon ORATB, a.k.a. El Cheapo Vindicators, could do better than Medusas in the back.

 

But to make it worth it, I would probably take these El Cheapo Vindicators in units of 3 with only the Demolisher Cannons and maaaybe Machine Spirit, to keep costs as low as possible.  Combined with Ordo Reductor's benefits for Tanks, including the Matrix of Ruin's thing where they can score in the enemy zone (they never will survive that long, but just the threat of doing so forces your opponent's hand), is why I think it's worth considering.

 

I'm not arguing Demolishers are better than Medusas and that people should switch.  What I'm saying is, IMHO, El Cheapo Vindicators have enough bulletpoints in its favour that it can be a genuine decision-gate rather than defaulting with Medusas for everyone.  I actually considered Demolishers for a long, long time.

[Withershadow]

I feel they aren't strong enough for that. Why not a pair of Krios Venators? Those 8 single shots will draw more attention by far, and you can still drop S10 templates but with the superior barrage rules.

[N1SB]

Why, thank you for asking about my pair.  I'm very proud of them.  Took a selfie for you:

 

http://oi64.tinypic.com/2cz7mo3.jpg

 

But flaunting my pair aside, or Sol's nice white one he posted pics up of, in my experience people get turned off by their effective AV 14 from shooting, plus they're 50% more expensive than an El Cheapo Vindicator.  They start shooting at my Myrmidons instead.

 

Actually, the more I think about this, the more I want a disposable wall of El Cheapo Vindicators for my other units to hide behind, not the other way around with the Medusa.

[God-Potato of Mankind]

I am still hooked on the idea of Myrmidons, would a 5 strong unit with irradiation engines in a Triaros ever be worth it? It is 550 points but I would love watching them melt through swathes of MEQ....

 

I can then focus on antivehicle/TEQ weapons....

Edited December 25, 2016 by The God-Potato of Mankind

[N1SB]

3 Myrmidon Destructors w/ Rad Engines in a Triaros is definitely worth it IMHO.  This is probably the "safe bet".

 

4 Myrmidon Destructors w/ Rad Engines in a Triaros is still worth it, IMHO.

 

5 Myrmidon Destructors w/ Rad Engines in a Triaros is worth it if your opponent likes to run full 20-man Legionnaire squads with an Apothecary...which certainly happens.  If not, though, it'll probably be overkill, and you made it too obvious a target, because your Myrmidon Destructors will be what draws the most ire.

 

It's just that now with the new, updated Legion Astartes: AoD Army List, people (in my meta, at least) are going back/forward to 10-man Veteran Squads (due to their buffs) in Rhinos.  Or they're taking the special Legion-specific units that usually cap at 10-man.  You probably know this, but for others viewing the thread:

 

 

Myrmidons - they're seen as overpriced because IIRC their points cost increased after our Red Book, but the fact remains they're one of the 2 units (the other being Macrocarid Explorators) that can carry...

 

Rad Engines - are even more dangerous in practice than on paper.  Obviously they're awesome as AP3 Fleshbane Template weapons, but please keep in mind they're Torrent weapons as well.  You place the Template 12 inches away from you, then continue to reach with the template.  Since people still basically line up their Marines in a line, you can and often will lay it down over 5 or 6 or 7 Marines PER Myrmidon.  So with just 3 Myrmidons, after laying down the Template you'll find you're rolling for around 15-20+ hits on a 10-man squad (and likely more for larger squads), which on average would net you 12 Wounds...on that 10-man squad.  I was an Ork player and I've been on the receiving end of Torrent weapons, which is why I'm so aware of their power.  Again, IIRC even the weapon got a points increase, on top of the Myrmidons' base cost...but still worth it.

 

Triaros - I think this is the bit you're asking about, because a 135 point Transport for just 3 dudes seems way too expensive.  I went with a Macrocarid Explorator myself, but I think I may downgrade and get this.  Here, the Triaros also blocks line of sight and lines of charging.  That allows you to divide & conquer the usual Midfield Marine Moshpit, giving you the chance to wipe out 1 squad at a time with proper planning and placement.  If they assault your Triaros and blow it up, great, because then they just set themselves to be Rad Engine'd next.

 

 

Holistically speaking, I know these things add up, getting to the points cost of a Knight Titan.  But in a MEQ-heavy meta such as, say, a typical Horus Heresy list, the equation definitely works out in favour of a Myrmidon + Rad Engines + Triaros IMHO.  From a Mechanicum player perspective, yeah, they're really pricey on paper.

 

But another way to look at them is from the opponent's perspective, and the best performing unit is what our opponents fear rather than what we love.  They don't remember their unit name, but point to them and say "they're OP", "they need to be nerfed" (of course they've already been nerfed), or my favourite, "they punch way above their weight" (this came from a very points-sensitive player after I told him these cost 80 points a dude and he's like "totally worth it").  They don't say that about the my Conversion Beam Myrmidons, nor my Krios Venators, nor my Thallaxes.

 

The other side of the table can probably see your army clearer than you can, and just 3 Rad Engine Myrmidons really put the fear of the Machine God in them.  Getting them to where they can do their maximum damage is very important, so I see the Triaros as the cost of doing business.

 

 

-----

 

 

This is actually really important context for my above posts on El Cheapo Vindicators.  Feeding the enemy one of my units is completely counter-intuitive, an argument I had myself, but I'm happy to do so to keep them from eating my Myrmidons, for ours is a counter-intuitive army in many regards like this one.

[God-Potato of Mankind]

Great, a viable way to use Myrms!

 

Here is my plan - 2k Cybernetica:

 

Scoria on Abeyant

2x Dominus - augury, machinator

 

2x DF Castellax w/ ETA

2x Castellax w/ ETA

 

Homonculex - Arc Scourge

 

4x Myrm Destructors - 4x Irradiation Engines in a Triaros

 

PoM Thanatar

 

I am thinking I can drop a Dominus at 2k, to grab another Castellax?

 

I am not bothered with scoring, I am painting them as Sarum mechanicum, to go with my 12th Legion forces.

Edited December 25, 2016 by The God-Potato of Mankind

[Charlo]

Looks pretty legit!

 

Scoria is enough of a target to almost let some other stuff go heat free