[HH1.0] Mechanicum Tactica

[Rabidbunneh]

Have you considered an Arlatax? They are jump infantry but with rampage from their arc flails they can chew through infantry.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

The unique problem I face is that I'd like to run Cybernetica, but we are imposing a 0-1 MC units limit in our campaign (which is fair enough) so it's Castellax or bust, unless I am the attacker in which case I have no "Compulsory Troops" that need to be taken up by the Legion of Steel rule, but then I only own 3 Vorax...!

 

So I'm trying to keep it fluffy and Cybernetica-y within my limitations 

 

Don't take Legio Cybernetica if they're going to cripple your options like that.

[LtDan]

So the new book is out and they have nerfed grav imploders. Its now on a str tests not the armour save

[Rabidbunneh]

Photon Thrusters are still a thing though. It's funny seeing people on Facebook arguing that the Mechanicum book overrides the rulebook.

[SkimaskMohawk]

It's so clearly a typo. If it was a planned nerf that's one thing, but the grav pulse references blasts in like two places, and not in a "if the weapon also has the blast special rule" kind of way, but in a "this rule is only written to be used with blasts".

 

Like the weapon doesn't even function mechanically speaking because it has no strength value and the to-wound bit only works when " any model is caught in its blast".

[Charlo]

 

The unique problem I face is that I'd like to run Cybernetica, but we are imposing a 0-1 MC units limit in our campaign (which is fair enough) so it's Castellax or bust, unless I am the attacker in which case I have no "Compulsory Troops" that need to be taken up by the Legion of Steel rule, but then I only own 3 Vorax...!

So I'm trying to keep it fluffy and Cybernetica-y within my limitations

 

Don't take Legio Cybernetica if they're going to cripple your options like that.

But I would like to be fluffy and build within those restrictions. For fun.

[LtDan]

@charlo. Fluffy is the main point of 30k....but monsters is the whole point of cybernetica. You will still get a small bonus tho. Id just do the castellex as your one unit then. Seems easiest option.

@rabidbunneh yeah there def is offer options. 40k grav in 30k is very powerful. It is fun to see the argument. I like irad engines anyway

[Reclusiarch Darius]

It's so clearly a typo. If it was a planned nerf that's one thing, but the grav pulse references blasts in like two places, and not in a "if the weapon also has the blast special rule" kind of way, but in a "this rule is only written to be used with blasts".

 

Like the weapon doesn't even function mechanically speaking because it has no strength value and the to-wound bit only works when " any model is caught in its blast". 

 

I hope you are right :( will be sad if they FAQ it to be official.

But I would like to be fluffy and build within those restrictions. For fun. 

 

They're crippling your ability to have fun with Legio Cybernetica. The whole point of the Cohort is running nothing but Domini and robots. If you're only allowed one unit, it defeats the purpose. It's why I hate Centurion style rules, they gimp everything except Legion. It's even worse for SA and Milita, because they rely so heavily on their heavy tanks to carry them. At least you can switch to a Myrmidon list.

[Charlo]

True, but it's also pretty beardy to show up with a list of MC to 1K points!

 

I'm just limiting myself for a bit of fluff/ fun and to make the bots better but not OP in the environment.

 

So with that in mind, what are some good options?

[TompiQ]

True, but it's also pretty beardy to show up with a list of MC to 1K points!

 

I'm just limiting myself for a bit of fluff/ fun and to make the bots better but not OP in the environment.

 

So with that in mind, what are some good options?

 

I respect that you want to stick to your guns, but you're basically trading +1 initiative on a single unit of Castellax in exchange for not being able to even consider fast attack or heavy support choices (because you need a monster to unlock them) as well as being giving up another d3 victory points if your warlord dies. Seeing as you'd be putting the Dominus with the Castellax anyway, the extra Cortex range won't ever be a factor.

 

So you'd have I4 castellax. Which allows you to strike simultaneously with Contemptor dreadnoughts, but other than those nothing at I3-4 actually threatens Castellax units seeing as all Sx2 weaponry is unwieldy and more elite units are I5. The odds of a Contemptor bringing down a Castellax is very low to begin with, so it'd probably get to strike anyway.

 

I'd probably go with a Taghmata list led by a Dominus, scale it down to two Castellax and two units of thralls (I wouldn't bother with giving them anything beyond Rite of Pure Thought though, because the upgrades are taken at a flat cost which is extremely steep for 10 man units) and then pour my resources into Ursarax over Thallax. Something like this:

 

Magos Dominus w. Machinator Array, Abeyant, Augury Scanner 130pts

 

2xCastellax w. ETA, Darkfire, 2xFlamers, Siege Wrecker 340pts

10xThralls w. Rite of Pure Thought 50pts

10xThralls w. Rite of Pure Thought 50pts

 

3xUrsarax w. 3 Power Fists 205pts

 

3xMyrmidon Destructors w. 2 Graviton Exploders, Irradiation Engine 225pts

 

The Dominus+Castellax still forms a Shooty/Punchy death star of sorts, but you'd also have two more units capable of hitting hard in melee with one of them providing you with some really destructive shooting as well. If you prefer to keep the Thallax just use the 255 points from the Ursarax and a Thrall unit to add them back in, albeit you'd need to ditch some wargear to kit them out.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

True, but it's also pretty beardy to show up with a list of MC to 1K points!

 

I'm just limiting myself for a bit of fluff/ fun and to make the bots better but not OP in the environment.

 

So with that in mind, what are some good options?

 

Only if you bring a big Vorax squad. And if they bring Kheres Dreads or anything AP4 in sufficient quantity (autocannons for example), they'll melt fast. 

 

I wouldn't play the Legio Cybernetica if you're gonna abide by those restrictions. A Myrmidon Cult list would work better. Take Tech-Thralls for mandatory Troops to keep them cheap (just Rite of Pure Thought). Take a tooled up Myrmidax as your HQ, then pack in as many Myrmidon Destructors as points allow.

 

Failing that, if you really want to stay in Legio Cybernetica, just take a 5-man Castellax squad with two Domini and roll around trashing people. This fits into 1k and abides by their dumb restrictions:

 

HQ:

 

Dominus w/laspistol+power axe, machinator array (Warlord)

(100 points)

 

Dominus w/laspistol+power axe

(75 points)

 

Troops:

 

5x Castellax w/darkfire+siege wrecker, targeters, frags

(825 points)

Edited December 29, 2017 by Reclusiarch Darius

[Meduson]

Hey all,

 

I know that everyone is looking at some lists and are probably sick of them, but wanted to get your opinions on a 1500 pt list for a smaller Centurion event that I'm thinking about next year. I feel like it's got a decent amount of everything, the only worry I have is coming up against Leviathans or multiple Contemptors, but I do have some answers to them. Luckily, the Centurion rules only allow one of either of those, and no tanks outside of a single Rhino. But they also restrict to one MC, so I've gone with a Thanatar to help clear infantry and have some AP2. I could potentially switch that to a unit of 3 Vorax with poisoned shells as they allow 3 to be taken as a choice. Let me know your thoughts, thanks in advance!

 

1495 Taghmata Mechanicum

 

HQ:

Archmagos Prime: Ordinator, chainfist, augury scanner, cyber-familiar, machinator array, photon thruster, abeyant. (275)

 

Troops:

6x Thallax: Ferrox, 6x heavy chainblades (310)

3x Thallax: Destructor, photon thruster (175)

15x Tech thralls: carapace armor, Rite of Pure Thought, Revenant Alchemistry (110)

 

Fast Attack: 

5x Ursurax: 5x power fists (325)
 

Heavy Support:

Thanatar Class Siege-Automata: Paragon of Metal, ETA (300)

[Reclusiarch Darius]

HQ:

Archmagos Prime: Ordinator, chainfist, augury scanner, cyber-familiar, machinator array, photon thruster, abeyant. (275)

 

Troops:

6x Thallax: Ferrox, 6x heavy chainblades (310)

3x Thallax: Destructor, photon thruster (175)

15x Tech thralls: carapace armor, Rite of Pure Thought, Revenant Alchemistry (110)

 

Fast Attack: 

5x Ursurax: 5x power fists (325)

 

Heavy Support:

Thanatar Class Siege-Automata: Paragon of Metal, ETA (300)

 

Ordinator looks good, his barrage should come in handy for nuking power-armoured Legion squads (just try to land behind the AA Sergeant so he can't tank it all). His Armourbane Lance photon thruster will also help in hating on whatever vehicles are taken.

 

Ferrox is fun, but just be aware of how vulnerable they can be. You're reliant on Rends to be effective, and you only go ahead of Unwieldy attacks. Go after Terminators (not Aquilons though because they'll demolish you), avoid melee focused Legion infantry that got at normal Initiative. Also avoid any Dreads with fists because they Instant Death you quicker.

 

Pretty much the same is true for Ursarax. Both are ironically better in a vehicle-heavy environment (not Medusas though). In the case of Ursarax they can punch most things to death, but you have to live that long.

 

 

Should do fine, Custodes will wreck you though (arae shrikes make your barrages useless, and they blenderise your Thallax/Ursarax in melee before you can swing). Hopefully you just fight Legion. 

[Charlo]

Can't play a Myrmidon cult as I don't own Myrmidons :p

 

Cheers for the list ideas though. Will have a think further. The point about initiative is very valid as I suppose it doesn't mean much in context of ZM.

 

For the record too, the restrictions arent "dumb", they in place with friendly, narrative gaming in mind to help the campaign flow :)

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Can't play a Myrmidon cult as I don't own Myrmidons 

 

Cheers for the list ideas though. Will have a think further. The point about initiative is very valid as I suppose it doesn't mean much in context of ZM.

 

For the record too, the restrictions arent "dumb", they in place with friendly, narrative gaming in mind to help the campaign flow  

 

Are they placing any meaningful restrictions on Talons or Legion lists? Because unless they're restricting Dreadnoughts and Terminators, its just crippling your army for no reason.

 

It's a shame because Myrmidon Destructors are so good in Zone Mortalis. Short-range vicious firefights are where they excel, especially because ZM breaks up combat into little 1 squad vs 1 squad fights.

[Charlo]

Any army with Custodes in have an 80% points limit and legion players have no restrictions, but most people are very casual.

 

I'll get some Myrmidons eventually, just not while I've got a lotta bot to paint :p

[Withershadow]

No complaints about monstrous creatures are valid any longer now that melta-bombs and krak grenades are melee weapons.  Certain monstrous creatures like the Vorax are now utterly useless because they crumble against most of the things they should be shredding in melee.  With Knights, Cybernetica, and superheavies, every army should have some melta-bombs or compensate in other ways against tough targets like this. 

 

As for the grav imploders, codex-specific rules always take precedence over the main rulebook, especially when the rulebook provides a non-functional mechanic.

[Rabidbunneh]

I don't understand that logic, why would they put updated stats in the book only to overrule it in an older book? Why not just leave it as it is and put it in the full rulebook?

 

 

++ The Age of Darkness (Mechanicum: Taghmata Army List) [1500pts] ++

 

+ Heavy Support +

 

Myrmidon Destructors [255pts]

. Myrmidon Destructor: Photon Thruster Cannon, Power Fist

. Myrmidon Destructor: Photon Thruster Cannon, Power Fist

. Myrmidon Lord: Photon Thruster Cannon, Power Fist

 

Myrmidon Destructors [255pts]

. Myrmidon Destructor: Photon Thruster Cannon, Power Fist

. Myrmidon Destructor: Photon Thruster Cannon, Power Fist

. Myrmidon Lord: Photon Thruster Cannon, Power Fist

 

+ Troops +

 

Adsecularis Covenant [120pts]: Carapace Armour, Heavy Chainblades, 20x Tech-thrall, The Rite of Pure Thought

 

Adsecularis Covenant [120pts]: Carapace Armour, Heavy Chainblades, 20x Tech-thrall, The Rite of Pure Thought

 

Adsecularis Covenant [120pts]: Carapace Armour, Heavy Chainblades, 20x Tech-thrall, The Rite of Pure Thought

 

Adsecularis Covenant [120pts]: Carapace Armour, Heavy Chainblades, 20x Tech-thrall, The Rite of Pure Thought

 

+ HQ +

 

Magos Prime [270pts]: Abeyant, Archmagos Prime, Cyber-familiar, Melta Bombs, Myrmidax, 2x Photon Thruster, Rad Grenades

 

+ Allegiance +

 

Allegiance: Loyalist

 

Legio: Taghmata Omnissiah

 

+ Elites +

 

Myrmidon Secutors [240pts]

. Myrmidon Lord: 2x Phased Plasma-fusil

. Myrmidon Secutor: 2x Phased Plasma-fusil

. Myrmidon Secutor: 2x Phased Plasma-fusil

 

++ Total: [1500pts] ++

 

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)

 

This is my current idea for Centurion. The plan is to shoot threatening stuff whilst walking the thralls into stuff I can't deal with

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Any army with Custodes in have an 80% points limit and legion players have no restrictions, but most people are very casual.

 

Lol so it's typical amateur hour Legion bias. Great.

No complaints about monstrous creatures are valid any longer now that melta-bombs and krak grenades are melee weapons.  Certain monstrous creatures like the Vorax are now utterly useless because they crumble against most of the things they should be shredding in melee.  With Knights, Cybernetica, and superheavies, every army should have some melta-bombs or compensate in other ways against tough targets like this. 

 

They weren't valid before IMO. The only Legion lists I see having issues against Cybernetica are bad lists. Veteran Snipers, Kheres Mortis Contemptors, even just simple application of lascannon/krak missile will demolish robots. It's like when I see people complain about Vulturax. Bring some AA, they stop being a problem.

As for the grav imploders, codex-specific rules always take precedence over the main rulebook, especially when the rulebook provides a non-functional mechanic.

 

Who knows dude. It's Inferno all over again :( it was a simple task of just copy-pasting from 7th and the existing army books, and they couldn't even get that right.

I don't understand that logic, why would they put updated stats in the book only to overrule it in an older book? Why not just leave it as it is and put it in the full rulebook?

 

They've openly admitted that 30k is of lower priority than their other projects at the moment. Hence we get B grade effort level.

 

That list looks solid for Centurion man. The Destructors handle Terminators and Custodes, the Secutors mince Veterans and other power-armoured squads. I'd see if you can shave some points somewhere and get a machinator array on the Arch-Magos (prevents S10 from instant-deathing you). I'd also shave some additional points for the chainfist+paragon blade combo, will make you much more threatening in melee. Maybe drop a Thrall unit? 60 seems sufficient for speedbumps and scoring.

[Rabidbunneh]

I've dropped a thrall unit and put the paragon/chainfist combo as well as the machinator and djinn skein. Thanks dude

[Charlo]

 

Any army with Custodes in have an 80% points limit and legion players have no restrictions, but most people are very casual.

 

Lol so it's typical amateur hour Legion bias. Great. 

 

Not quite... Just our experience from the club. I played Custodes in our last campaign and, despite some real self control (Saggitarum, Bolter Sisters, No Custodes HQs) I won all of my games (though some are close!) and this was in games on normal boards.

 

In ZM Custodes are even more powerful, with it being based on the squad-vs-squad combat you mentioned yourself so we are just taking measures to ensure it's fun for all. If it turns out it's too harsh I'm sure we'll change the restriction.

[Brofist]

No kidding. Custodes are the most powerful army in the game. We had a guy start an army and he stopped using it after 2 games because it's not fun for anyone unless you tailor really hard against it.

[Withershadow]

Custodes are really only suitable for campaign play where they are thrown into crazy scenarios.   Sadly the writers admitted to never having played a game with them or against them,  so they do not see an issue.

[Charlo]

Custodes are really only suitable for campaign play where they are thrown into crazy scenarios.   Sadly the writers admitted to never having played a game with them or against them,  so they do not see an issue.

 

There is a very well known quote from Alan talking about testing Custodes and how they were trying hard to get them right as they were "currently blending 20 man Tactical squads as a 5 man unit with ease." from pre-Inferno. So they were certainly tested.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I've dropped a thrall unit and put the paragon/chainfist combo as well as the machinator and djinn skein. Thanks dude 

 

No worries :) with Hatred he's actually a pretty good melee fighter so its worth giving him decent gear. The rad grenades are especially helpful against T5 multi-wound enemies, because you can always choose to just chainfist them if you're going second anyway.

Not quite... Just our experience from the club. I played Custodes in our last campaign and, despite some real self control (Saggitarum, Bolter Sisters, No Custodes HQs) I won all of my games (though some are close!) and this was in games on normal boards.

 

In ZM Custodes are even more powerful, with it being based on the squad-vs-squad combat you mentioned yourself so we are just taking measures to ensure it's fun for all. If it turns out it's too harsh I'm sure we'll change the restriction

 

The only truly abusive things about Talons are the Shield-Captain/Tribune with familiar and shield, and maybe the laspulsar jetbikes (although I think they're maybe just undercosted, rather than fundamentally broken). I would say FAQ the Shield-Captain/Tribune to be unable to take a shield (it's the abusive part of the combo, the 3+ invul is achievable in every other faction). Maybe restricting them to Allies only?

 

Yeah ZM is a really skewed format IMO. People want to play trash like Breachers in it. 80% points doesn't really solve any of those issues, they just bring one less squad/Dread or whatever. ZM is a bit like Centurion IMO, it's really for Legion to fight Legion. 

No kidding. Custodes are the most powerful army in the game. We had a guy start an army and he stopped using it after 2 games because it's not fun for anyone unless you tailor really hard against it.

 

They're definitely the list to beat at the moment. I think people don't adequately exploit the weaknesses of Talons however. Armoured Breakthrough, Ordo Reductor, and Questoris Knights are arguably more unfair to fight, especially for the unprepared. Talons mainly asks if you brought enough AP2 to gun down faster than normal Terminators, with a couple of expensive but equally lethal Dreads/skimmer tanks to back them up (which if you brought proper anti-tank you can deal with). I know some Legions get hit pretty hard going up against Talons, because they have a melee focus (World Eaters and Night Lords come to mind).

Custodes are really only suitable for campaign play where they are thrown into crazy scenarios.   Sadly the writers admitted to never having played a game with them or against them,  so they do not see an issue.

 

I would expect a Talons army book to come out in the near future, which will allow them to address a lot of the internal and external balance issues. Same thing happened to Mechanicum when we got fully fleshed out (instead of being side lists to Legion). Same problem used to exist with the unintentional interaction of tanky Magos in a Castellax blob. Now that Patris Cybernetica lets opponents just ignore the Dominus entirely for shooting purposes, it is no longer an issue.