Rabidbunneh Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 I'd say Night Lords are safe against custodes, terminators can and have gone toe to toe with most of my units as their outnumbering bonus negates shields debuff Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313500-hh10-mechanicum-tactica/page/44/#findComment-4974050 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 (edited) I'd say Night Lords are safe against custodes, terminators can and have gone toe to toe with most of my units as their outnumbering bonus negates shields debuff I'd be mixing gauntlets into your Sentinels squads so they can deal with Terminators and Dreads. Also if you run your squads 5-man they shouldn't be getting that bonus unless a lot of things go their way. To get a bit more back on topic, same thing would be good against Mechanicum. S10 squishes Thallax and Ursarax dead, wounds robots reliably and squashes Magi as well (unless they're an Arch-Magos and take machinator array). Edited January 5, 2018 by Reclusiarch Darius Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313500-hh10-mechanicum-tactica/page/44/#findComment-4974577 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabidbunneh Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 I mix 1 for every 3 in a six man squad, 10 man terminator squads with a character are bulky too. Back on topic how do Mechanicum deal with Custodes? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313500-hh10-mechanicum-tactica/page/44/#findComment-4974896 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 I mix 1 for every 3 in a six man squad, 10 man terminator squads with a character are bulky too. Back on topic how do Mechanicum deal with Custodes? Graviton Implo - OH, guess not according to the new rulebook (though it's debatable as it says army books overrule the rulebook but that debate aside...) They still only wound Castellax on a 6+ unless chariging, Domitar are also very good as they're S10 in combat (though a Siege Wrecker castellax is too and cheaper). Fearless Thralls can tie them up as long as they haven't charged (They go to S6 and ignore your FNP). Scoria could also murder a few no doubt. Things like Photon Thursters will tear them apart and Ordo Reductor Artillery will really hurt them if they aren't packing Arae Shrikes all the time. Ursurax with Power Fists can take a fair chunk of wounds with a 5+ FNP (as long as they aren't rocking Solarite Gauntlets) and then ID them back. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313500-hh10-mechanicum-tactica/page/44/#findComment-4974919 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 Yea most people don't run guardians as a mainstay charlo. If they're taken it's for objective camping; sentinels and Hetaeron with fists are what you'll be facing on the front lines. If there's units without fists and shields, I agree bots are a nice choice, with they're a rather poor matchup. Photons shot by thallax do .57 wounds per gun. Photon shot by archmagos does .72 wounds per volley. Photons shot by myrmidons do .99 per gun. That's without shields though, so I'm not sure they're the best gun for the job. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313500-hh10-mechanicum-tactica/page/44/#findComment-4974958 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabidbunneh Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 That's fair enough. From my experience being a custodes player that Tribune can only be in one place at a time. It looks like Reductor is a good way to go to counter them (I'm working on both a cybernetica and a Reductor army at the same time). That Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313500-hh10-mechanicum-tactica/page/44/#findComment-4977316 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 (edited) In general you're gonna want some of the following options: - Tooled up Arch Myrmidax/Malagra/Reductor with chainfist+paragon, rad grenades, abeyant, machinator, cyber-familiar (besides Scoria its your only hope to go into a challenge with the Shield Captain/Tribune). - Demolisher Siege Battery (park cyber-occulari nearby and position so you can Interceptor nuke any Deepstrikers). - Castellax w/siege wreckers and darkfire (they're cheaper than Domitars and arguably better in almost every way, I6 with Rite of Celerity too. Hetaerons and Shield Captain/Tribune still demolish them easily, but against everything else the siege wreckers should swing it your way. The heliothermic weapons are annoying if they wound and you roll a 6 on your Toughness test) - Destructors w/photon thruster (preferably in a Bunker to avoid them getting sniped by all the AP2 shooting with Instant Death) - Arlatax w/arc flail (Rampage and Shred means it will generate a tonne of AP2 wounds, which is how you drop Custodes if you can't ID them. Also with 'Rite of Celerity', it will go same time as Custodes, faster than anyone except the Shield Captain/Tribune if you stack Rite of Beast from Scoria. Ideal for killing their Dreads too, if you don't have Haywire. If you manage to get a rad grenade Magos into melee alive, you can pump the claw to ID them. Concussive also means you can reduce incoming damage to anyone else in the same melee until I1). - Krios Venators (mostly for killing their vehicles, with djinn-skein you can pump a 3-strong squadron to BS5 which is quite nice). - Vultarax or Hoplites (former if you're in Cybernetica, latter if not. They will wreck their vehicles and Dreads with impunity, and both play into Custodian weaknesses of inability to clear hordes if they have decent invul+FNP, and their general lack of anti-air) - Pure Thought Thralls to hold objectives on the cheap, and act as a tarpit to prevent their melee units hitting anything important. Arae shrikes mean Thanatars and Reductor Medusas are mostly useless. Thallax and Ursarax will get blended into the warp, you might trade with Ursarax but the risk of getting killed before you can swing is huge. Also the perpetual issue of Thallax/Ursarax is I2, which means Dreads stomp them to dust if they take at least one close combat arm. Most Custodian weapons start at AP4 as well, so enjoy rolling those Feel No Pains. In my experience, its a tough fight, but the only big problem units are the Hetaerons, Achillus, Shield Captain (cos he can't die and gets a billion Murderous Strike attacks at I7), Telemon with full guns and jetbikes. Mechanicum do have the tools to deal with them, but be prepared to die in melee most of the time unless you can whittle them down with shooting first. Try and tarpit the Shield-Captain if you can with Thralls. edit: FYI, new Grav-imploder rules are confirmed by FAQ :( all it picked up was Concussive and 3D6 Armour Penetration roll. It's still junk. Edited January 8, 2018 by Reclusiarch Darius Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313500-hh10-mechanicum-tactica/page/44/#findComment-4977343 Share on other sites More sharing options...
disease Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 Quote: : FYI, new Grav-imploder rules are confirmed by FAQ all it picked up was Concussive and 3D6 Armour Penetration roll. It's still junk. Or... take an Ordinator with the new grav imploder in a thallax bodyguard. Ordinator gets 4 shots at 4D6 armour pen AP1 with tank hunter re-rolls. Say goodbye to any vehicle. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313500-hh10-mechanicum-tactica/page/44/#findComment-4977364 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 Quote: : FYI, new Grav-imploder rules are confirmed by FAQ all it picked up was Concussive and 3D6 Armour Penetration roll. It's still junk. Or... take an Ordinator with the new grav imploder in a thallax bodyguard. Ordinator gets 4 shots at 4D6 armour pen AP1 with tank hunter re-rolls. Say goodbye to any vehicle. Now that is the kind of hard data we need! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313500-hh10-mechanicum-tactica/page/44/#findComment-4977375 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LtDan Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 But cant take a jetpack if take grav imploder Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313500-hh10-mechanicum-tactica/page/44/#findComment-4977388 Share on other sites More sharing options...
disease Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 But cant take a jetpack if take grav imploder But they (thallax bodyguard) can get in a triaros, arvus or macroarid right? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313500-hh10-mechanicum-tactica/page/44/#findComment-4977429 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabidbunneh Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 That's pretty brutal. I thought custodes would be a bit of an issue. I've played one game against them with my Cybernetica and that was a tough one as I lost 2 castellax on the charge by paragon spear. It'll be fun to have a against a proper custodes list. I'm playing against a dark angel list tonight, it's a sort of blind game as I'm going to a new club so I'll see how it goes and post results up here. ++ The Age of Darkness (Mechanicum: Taghmata Army List) [2925pts] ++ + Heavy Support + Thanatar Class Siege-automata Maniple [265pts]: Enhanced Targeting Array, Thanatar Class Siege-automata + Troops + Castellax Class Battle-Automata Maniple [310pts]: Enhanced Targeting Arrays, Frag Grenades, Support Unit . Castellax class Battle-automata: 2x Bolter, Darkfire Cannon, Two Power Blades . Castellax class Battle-automata: 2x Bolter, Darkfire Cannon, Two Power Blades Castellax Class Battle-Automata Maniple [310pts]: Enhanced Targeting Arrays, Frag Grenades, Support Unit . Castellax class Battle-automata: 2x Bolter, Darkfire Cannon, Two Power Blades . Castellax class Battle-automata: 2x Bolter, Darkfire Cannon, Two Power Blades Castellax Class Battle-Automata Maniple [310pts]: Enhanced Targeting Arrays, Frag Grenades, Support Unit . Castellax class Battle-automata: 2x Bolter, Darkfire Cannon, Two Power Blades . Castellax class Battle-automata: 2x Bolter, Darkfire Cannon, Two Power Blades Thallax Cohort [160pts]: Photon Thruster, 3x Thallax Thallax Cohort [160pts]: Photon Thruster, 3x Thallax + HQ + Archmagos Inar Satarael [295pts] Magos Dominus [175pts]: Abeyant, Cyber-familiar, Laspistol, Machinator Array, Mastercraft a single weapon, Photon Thruster, Power axe Magos Dominus [165pts]: Abeyant, Cyber-familiar, Laspistol, Machinator Array, Mastercraft a single weapon, Phased Plasma-fusil, Power axe + Allegiance + Allegiance: Traitor Legio: Legio Cybernetica + Fast Attack + Arlatax Class Battle-automata Maniple [370pts] . Arlatax: Arc Scourge . Arlatax: Arc Scourge Arlatax Class Battle-automata Maniple [185pts] . Arlatax: Arc Scourge Arlatax Class Battle-automata Maniple [220pts]: Paragon of Metal . Arlatax: Arc Scourge ++ Total: [2925pts] ++ This is the list I'll be using. I'm planning on using Scoria in the future bit I'm quite chuffed by my Inar Satarael conversion. Plus turning up to a club with Scoria probably won't make a good first impression :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313500-hh10-mechanicum-tactica/page/44/#findComment-4977437 Share on other sites More sharing options...
disease Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 Linky for the Satareal conversion? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313500-hh10-mechanicum-tactica/page/44/#findComment-4977443 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 Linky for the Satareal conversion? Also Arlatax! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313500-hh10-mechanicum-tactica/page/44/#findComment-4977447 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabidbunneh Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 Cybernetica https://imgur.com/gallery/Uetqb There you go, Inar is the first two, arlatax and then the homoncolex who is demoted to a paragon of metal arlatax for this game Brofist, Reclusiarch Darius and disease 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313500-hh10-mechanicum-tactica/page/44/#findComment-4977451 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 NOT what I was expecting but very awesome...! disease 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313500-hh10-mechanicum-tactica/page/44/#findComment-4977486 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabidbunneh Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 Thanks, it was a bit slapdash at first but the more I added the happier I was with him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313500-hh10-mechanicum-tactica/page/44/#findComment-4977530 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LtDan Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 @ disease. Yeah they can take all those options. Your just getting very close and cant jump back into cover Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313500-hh10-mechanicum-tactica/page/44/#findComment-4977717 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabidbunneh Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 I went up against a Dark Angel list and got utterly battered, 2 normal Land Raiders, 3 Dreads, a Damocles, Master of Signal, 2 poison Landspeeders coupled with a total of 5 penetrating hits all game meant I got steamrolled. I think I killed 1 Dread, a rhino and 4 terminators and I got wiped out. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313500-hh10-mechanicum-tactica/page/44/#findComment-4978008 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 But they (thallax bodyguard) can get in a triaros, arvus or macroarid right? They can, but you're wasting their mobility. I dunno if its worth paying 150 points + 135 for Triaros. ++ The Age of Darkness (Mechanicum: Taghmata Army List) [2925pts] ++ + Heavy Support + Thanatar Class Siege-automata Maniple [265pts]: Enhanced Targeting Array, Thanatar Class Siege-automata + Troops + Castellax Class Battle-Automata Maniple [310pts]: Enhanced Targeting Arrays, Frag Grenades, Support Unit . Castellax class Battle-automata: 2x Bolter, Darkfire Cannon, Two Power Blades . Castellax class Battle-automata: 2x Bolter, Darkfire Cannon, Two Power Blades Castellax Class Battle-Automata Maniple [310pts]: Enhanced Targeting Arrays, Frag Grenades, Support Unit . Castellax class Battle-automata: 2x Bolter, Darkfire Cannon, Two Power Blades . Castellax class Battle-automata: 2x Bolter, Darkfire Cannon, Two Power Blades Castellax Class Battle-Automata Maniple [310pts]: Enhanced Targeting Arrays, Frag Grenades, Support Unit . Castellax class Battle-automata: 2x Bolter, Darkfire Cannon, Two Power Blades . Castellax class Battle-automata: 2x Bolter, Darkfire Cannon, Two Power Blades Thallax Cohort [160pts]: Photon Thruster, 3x Thallax Thallax Cohort [160pts]: Photon Thruster, 3x Thallax + HQ + Archmagos Inar Satarael [295pts] Magos Dominus [175pts]: Abeyant, Cyber-familiar, Laspistol, Machinator Array, Mastercraft a single weapon, Photon Thruster, Power axe Magos Dominus [165pts]: Abeyant, Cyber-familiar, Laspistol, Machinator Array, Mastercraft a single weapon, Phased Plasma-fusil, Power axe + Allegiance + Allegiance: Traitor Legio: Legio Cybernetica + Fast Attack + Arlatax Class Battle-automata Maniple [370pts] . Arlatax: Arc Scourge . Arlatax: Arc Scourge Arlatax Class Battle-automata Maniple [185pts] . Arlatax: Arc Scourge Arlatax Class Battle-automata Maniple [220pts]: Paragon of Metal . Arlatax: Arc Scourge ++ Total: [2925pts] ++ Yeah I can see why a mech Dark Angels list rolled you. You need Vultarax man. They're so amazing at murdering armour in Cybernetica. Two is enough, just take a squadron of two and bulk out the Arlatax squads to 3. Drop the Thallax out, they're wasted points in Cybernetica. Also drop all the junk off your two Domini, you don't need it. At most I take augury scanners, infravisor rarely matters and machinator array is expensive for two additional attacks (which is all you usually do with it, besides the T5 buff). You should never take guns on them because you'll be casting Cybertheurgy every turn. Swap power blades for siege wreckers on the Castellax. It's a huge step up for them, makes them amazing in melee especially with Rage triggering. I find that S6 really holds back Castellax once you hit T5+ or vehicle threats, as your WS3 mean your handful of hits don't do much. Also very helpful when fighting other robots, as you wound on 2's and you still get Concussive. I really don't rate power blades. Scoria I would only bring if they bring either Shield-Captain or Primarchs against you. Otherwise he's kinda overkill, three regular Domini or Satarael will be less salt inducing. I actually feel like triple Dominus is the best build, Castellax or Arlatax usually suffice for murdering enemy melee characters. I don't actually rate Homonculex, being a single model makes him lascannon bait in my experience. Squads of Arlatax are a better use of your limited FA slots, and you get exponentially better with Rite of the Beast. Your models look really cool man :) wish I had those conversion skills Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313500-hh10-mechanicum-tactica/page/44/#findComment-4978243 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Landspeeders can't take poison Heavy Bolters my dude, you've been had...! Only Infantry and Dreadnoughts. Reclusiarch Darius 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313500-hh10-mechanicum-tactica/page/44/#findComment-4978251 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabidbunneh Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 (edited) Thanks mate, just keep at it and you'll get there when it comes to conversions. Yeah the list is a bit hodgepodge. The original has 60 thralls but I haven't got the models yet. I'm tempted by siege wrecker but it seems like online is split about if they are good or not depending on where i've read. The Dominus were a bit pointless as it was a lot of points to try and repair stuff. I'll definitely get the Vultarax now, I didn't want to as they are a bit gimmicky but I need a way to pop tanks. ++ The Age of Darkness (Mechanicum: Taghmata Army List) [2975pts] ++ + Heavy Support + Thanatar Class Siege-automata Maniple [265pts]: Enhanced Targeting Array, Thanatar Class Siege-automata + Troops + Adsecularis Covenant [120pts]: Carapace Armour, Heavy Chainblades, 20x Tech-thrall, The Rite of Pure Thought Adsecularis Covenant [120pts]: Carapace Armour, Heavy Chainblades, 20x Tech-thrall, The Rite of Pure Thought Adsecularis Covenant [120pts]: Carapace Armour, Heavy Chainblades, 20x Tech-thrall, The Rite of Pure Thought Castellax Class Battle-Automata Maniple [330pts]: Enhanced Targeting Arrays, Frag Grenades, Support Unit . Castellax class Battle-automata: 2x Bolter, Darkfire Cannon, Siege Wrecker . Castellax class Battle-automata: 2x Bolter, Darkfire Cannon, Siege Wrecker Castellax Class Battle-Automata Maniple [330pts]: Enhanced Targeting Arrays, Frag Grenades, Support Unit . Castellax class Battle-automata: 2x Bolter, Darkfire Cannon, Siege Wrecker . Castellax class Battle-automata: 2x Bolter, Darkfire Cannon, Siege Wrecker Castellax Class Battle-Automata Maniple [330pts]: Enhanced Targeting Arrays, Frag Grenades, Support Unit . Castellax class Battle-automata: 2x Bolter, Darkfire Cannon, Siege Wrecker . Castellax class Battle-automata: 2x Bolter, Darkfire Cannon, Siege Wrecker + HQ + Archmagos Dominus [225pts]: Abeyant, Cyber-familiar, Machinator Array, Mastercraft a single weapon, Power Weapon Magos Dominus [115pts]: Abeyant, Cyber-familiar, Laspistol, Power axe Magos Dominus [115pts]: Abeyant, Cyber-familiar, Laspistol, Power axe + Allegiance + Allegiance: Traitor Legio: Legio Cybernetica + Fast Attack + Arlatax Class Battle-automata Maniple [370pts] . Arlatax: Arc Scourge . Arlatax: Arc Scourge Arlatax Class Battle-automata Maniple [185pts] . Arlatax: Arc Scourge Vultarax Stratos-automata Maniple [350pts]: Vultarax Stratos-automata, Vultarax Stratos-automata ++ Total: [2975pts] ++ This is the tweaked list, I've dropped one arlatax for 2 Vultarax. Would it be better to run the arlatax as a squad or the Vultarax? Edited January 9, 2018 by Rabidbunneh Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313500-hh10-mechanicum-tactica/page/44/#findComment-4978282 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Withershadow Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Cybernetica Archmagi are just awful, there is really no reason at all to include them. The two Domini, or maybe a third given the point level and number of bots, should be all you need. To disagree with Darius, as we so often do (must be the Greek vs. Persian thing :P), I think the Machinator Arrays are definitely a nice investment, more so than the Abeyants. There are a LOT of powerfists, missiles, and yes, even meltaguns out there, and being immune to instant death from the vast majority of weapons is very solid. The extra couple of attacks are not bad when things get personal either. Abeyants for the extra wound and IWND is cool, but also makes them a much easier target and Hardened Armour is a straight up nerf (btw, does anyone with a copy of the new rulebook see if hardened armor is still the same?). Another point I would disagree on are the siege wreckers. Unless you're being drowned in Leviathans, more than 1 in a unit is quite wasteful. Chainblades on the Adsecularis are pretty much a complete waste. Maybe leave them on one unit if you have a cool conversion in mind, but otherwise they aren't doing much in melee no matter how hard you try. Between downgrading the Archmagos and getting rid of the chainblades, you should be able to bring back that missing Arlatax. By the way, how are people representing these beasties? I have given up waiting on them, and I still hope Domitars will have cool 8th edition rules so don't want to use them as a base just yet (getting there tho...). I am getting very close to asking my buddies to let me use the now useless-again (damn grenades) Vorax to represent my Arlatax. Instead of jump packs, they just jump like grasshoppers! :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313500-hh10-mechanicum-tactica/page/44/#findComment-4978315 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabidbunneh Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 (edited) Thanks for the advice, I posted pics of mine last page I think (on imgur) I was putting the Archmagos in for the slightly higher leadership for cybertheurgy as I'm paranoid about not getting off the ability I need. I'll be converting the Adsecularis from ghouls and poxwalkers, the chainblades are there as it's easier for me to source 60 of them than the special forge world Las weapons but I'll have a think on what I could use. Edited January 9, 2018 by Rabidbunneh Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313500-hh10-mechanicum-tactica/page/44/#findComment-4978327 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Heavy Chainblades can be good, it lets you be more aggressive with the mindless buggers. For just under 150pts you can get 20 Fearless dudes with 4+/5+ FNP that hit at S6 AP4 before power fists. Sure they only hit on a 5+ in combat but you also get Hatred and then at S6 you're going to wound whatever you manage to hit! Sure they won't last against dedicated assault units but that's not what they are there for, they're there to be a nuisance and fill the gaps your bots cannot and tarpit things. Bonus points if you bring a Tech-Priest that gives them +1 to FNP :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313500-hh10-mechanicum-tactica/page/44/#findComment-4978364 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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