Leviathan Siege Dread tactics

[infyrana]

Thanks for the replies all.  I'm looking at ways to craft some Pods without spending the funds I'm saving for the Levi's to use them in a non-Reaping DG list as well (gotta try all combos).  If this can be done, then they will both have a pod, I'm guess I'll need a third pod somewhere else in the list at that point.

 

How are people finding the Leviathan ?  In particular, in a 2.5k-3k list, are these things alone (or in pairs) something that's gonna shift the potential of your lists performance ?  Are they having a good enough impact for the points invested against the average list ?

 

I guess in essence my question here is - what are the Leviathans excelling at most on the battlefield ?

 

Thanks in advance!

[Gorgoff]

I wholeheartedly agree that  a pod is needed at least if your using the grav bombard or doing dual close combat weapons. 

I am a little less convinced that if you  take the storm cannon and the volkite that you'll absolutely need a pod I feel like that 24/30 inch bubble is okay  so long as you have means to deal with enemy antitank asap. ( This is not always the case and can screw up target priority I  reckon)   

I am waiting on the parts to build a dread of this configuration  so I can test it myself cause I feel like that setup might be alright for footslogging. 

________________

For Zone Mortalis missions that have you split your force in half I always suggest putting the Leviathan on the board for the start of the game. In my experiences it causes the enemy to try to rush to remove it meaning whatever else you put on the board will be less likely to get significant attention ( allowing that unit to move around and do its thing / select its targets )  OR  the Levi will get ignored allowing it to essentially do as it pleases  ( on a board where the dual close combat weapon variant has actually solid shooting due to the ZM rules this is actually quite fun)   If you are running two of them and splitting your force then I would say only put one on cause there is still that chance it gets bodied by a lucky shot and your reserves dont come on.

 

A Leviathan can't be used in ZM because if his size.

Yes, there is a size limit and he is to huge, sadly. ;)

[Slips]

No, only MCs are called out for specific Base sizes. vehicles/walkers are 100% fine as long as they can fit.

[depthcharge12]

No, only MCs are called out for specific Base sizes. vehicles/walkers are 100% fine as long as they can fit.

lol, well can the leviathan fit between those corridors?

[Slips]

Depends on the ZM board. Not everyone uses the FW tiles. Just look at Bladewolfs ZM games in his thread.

[Lord Blackwood]

 

I wholeheartedly agree that  a pod is needed at least if your using the grav bombard or doing dual close combat weapons. 

I am a little less convinced that if you  take the storm cannon and the volkite that you'll absolutely need a pod I feel like that 24/30 inch bubble is okay  so long as you have means to deal with enemy antitank asap. ( This is not always the case and can screw up target priority I  reckon)   

I am waiting on the parts to build a dread of this configuration  so I can test it myself cause I feel like that setup might be alright for footslogging. 

________________

For Zone Mortalis missions that have you split your force in half I always suggest putting the Leviathan on the board for the start of the game. In my experiences it causes the enemy to try to rush to remove it meaning whatever else you put on the board will be less likely to get significant attention ( allowing that unit to move around and do its thing / select its targets )  OR  the Levi will get ignored allowing it to essentially do as it pleases  ( on a board where the dual close combat weapon variant has actually solid shooting due to the ZM rules this is actually quite fun)   If you are running two of them and splitting your force then I would say only put one on cause there is still that chance it gets bodied by a lucky shot and your reserves dont come on.

A Leviathan can't be used in ZM because if his size.

Yes, there is a size limit and he is to huge, sadly.

 

 

I really hate when people use the emoticons they feel condescending for some reason also Slips response below is the correct one.

No, only MCs are called out for specific Base sizes. vehicles/walkers are 100% fine as long as they can fit.

 

 

 

No, only MCs are called out for specific Base sizes. vehicles/walkers are 100% fine as long as they can fit.

lol, well can the leviathan fit between those corridors?

 

 

We dont use the actual Forgeworld Tiles we use a lot of infinity terrain sometimes with more than one level even with the corridors made a little tight I haven't had an issue yet   

 

[Ishagu]

I've faced Leviathans without pods and let me tell you, whats worse than seeing them get exploded is getting immobilized.

 

Easiest thing to avoid from then on that you can just slowly plink away at with your longer-ranged guns since the farthest they can shoot with a main weapon is 24"

 

So, yeah, give them a pod where possible. If they're footslogging, definitely strap on some Calivers for 30" Shooting.

I can't imagine running them without Pods, it's too expensive and they function best at short range and assault.

I almost cringe when people do so :-/

[Lord Blackwood]

an interesting exception seems to be in extremely large games  as Ive seen Ray Ray and WLK  battle reports where WLK fields a talon without em since theres so much stuff on the board

[Slips]

an interesting exception seems to be in extremely large games  as Ive seen Ray Ray and WLK  battle reports where WLK fields a talon without em since theres so much stuff on the board

Thats also dependant on board sizes and just how large the game is.

 

In our Apoc Games? You 100% definitely do not want them to footslog haha! For large games on a standard table? You can get away with it but I'd still prefer a Pod.

[Lord Blackwood]

Did I ever tell you about the time I  rolled three 6s to save a bunch of wounds on Humboldt and my opponent started screaming " MARK OF THE BEAST"   good times. 

Here is a tactics question tho ,  how much stock do you put in the volkite , is it really worth the 10 points to swap  out both flamers ?  Say you are running a talon is it alright to only run one of the Leviathans with  volkite ?  or is it an all or nothing sort of thing?  I really feel like if your gonna take the storm cannon you would be better served with the volkite instead of the flamers. 

[Slips]

I mean, if you're podding in, no real point since you're in flamer range.

 

HOWEVER! if you're going AV Hunting, the S6 Calivers will be more useful since they can glance Av12 which the Heavy Flamers cannot. Unless you're Salamanders. Then you have S6 Heavy Flamers.

[Flint13]

I feel like flamers work at cross purposes to the dread itself though.

 

If you're in heavy flamer ranger, depending on the target, it seems like you're either making a charge harder for yourself or you're not going to have a great chance to wound whatever your shooting at.

 

They're more a defensive weapon for keeping stuff from bogging the Levi down in unfavorable combats, I think.

[Slips]

I feel like flamers work at cross purposes to the dread itself though.

 

If you're in heavy flamer ranger, depending on the target, it seems like you're either making a charge harder for yourself or you're not going to have a great chance to wound whatever your shooting at.

 

They're more a defensive weapon for keeping stuff from bogging the Levi down in unfavorable combats, I think.

True, 2D3 Wall of Flame hits are nice as is 2 Templates that NOPE out GEQ Blobs.

 

That, and the Calivers can only ever kill a maximum of 8 models.

[Lord Blackwood]

Flint brings up a really good point , in the games I have used the leviathan I  have only used its flamers defensively  they have been extremely effective in that role  

 

[Charlo]

I think if you want a real god damn distraction for your other units nothing is going to screw with your opponents target priority more than a Talon of Leviathans walking towards him.

 

In which case I'd go calivers and storm cannon, maybe a bombard in there to deal with deep strikers. The Leviathan can function as wonderful backfield insurance.

[Flint13]

Flint brings up a really good point , in the games I have used the leviathan I  have only used its flamers defensively  they have been extremely effective in that role  

 

Right? It's super weird, but I feel like flamers are much more a defensive weapon since 6th edition. They're useful against the exact type of models that you don't want in combat, tarpitting your levi down. 

 

And the templates are what like 8" long? If you're close enough to fit a decent amount of models under them, you're either close enough to charge something you want to charge (which the flamers are going to make more difficult) or close enough that something you don't want tarpitting your levi is going to do it anyway. 

[Balthamal]

That's the paradox with flamers - if you're going to use them offensively (assuming you're in range) then why would you compromise a charge when it's a given that Levi's will smash through any infantry bar terminators or Gal Vorbak? Defensively they can be a bit hit and miss. I tend to use my Levi as bait to suck in units to assault it because people in my gaming circle are terrified of it (with good reason) so I actually want it in assault knowing that it's going to kill a few models and then sweep.

 

In the end it's a matter of preference. Flamers keep infantry at bay very well, Choom gives a bit of range if people are (sensibly) withdrawing their troops from it.

 

Be very interested to see if the dual assault cannon arms seen on the Culln model are retained for generic ones

[Terminus]

The Leviathan won't smash through exactly the type of units we're discussing, fearless cultists.  I've used Adsecularis to tie up a Leviathan worth 5x more than them for a whole game.

[Lord Blackwood]

I have been lucky in my games in that I tend to use my tac marines to intercept stuff like gaunt blobs  while running my Levi  into MC's  but you are pretty much correct. Against those sort of units the flamers are going to be more useful. Though to be fair  there are ways to break those fearless blobs it just requires the allocation of another resource / unit.  I know its problematic to think you would have to devote another unit to bail out your 300 point murder grandpa but id rather do that than have him just trapped there squishing dudes for several turns. 

[depthcharge12]

3 leviathans :O mercy me, that'd be a slaughter...

[Lord Blackwood]

Sometimes you just gotta have the angriest grandpas 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

 

I feel like flamers work at cross purposes to the dread itself though.

If you're in heavy flamer ranger, depending on the target, it seems like you're either making a charge harder for yourself or you're not going to have a great chance to wound whatever your shooting at.

They're more a defensive weapon for keeping stuff from bogging the Levi down in unfavorable combats, I think.

 

True, 2D3 Wall of Flame hits are nice as is 2 Templates that NOPE out GEQ Blobs.

 

That, and the Calivers can only ever kill a maximum of 8 models.

Whatever charges a Levi better be BAMF.

[Runefyre]

 

 

I feel like flamers work at cross purposes to the dread itself though.

If you're in heavy flamer ranger, depending on the target, it seems like you're either making a charge harder for yourself or you're not going to have a great chance to wound whatever your shooting at.

They're more a defensive weapon for keeping stuff from bogging the Levi down in unfavorable combats, I think.

True, 2D3 Wall of Flame hits are nice as is 2 Templates that NOPE out GEQ Blobs.

 

That, and the Calivers can only ever kill a maximum of 8 models.

Whatever charges a Levi better be BAMF.

 

That would be Angron.

[Flint13]

^My fondest memory of using Dad in a game is when he killed a Questoris Knight-Paladin before it could swing when it charged him

 

 

 

Whatever charges a Levi better be BAMF.

 

 

 

I would specifically avoid charging a Levi with badass models. It probably wants to be in with expensive, elite models like unique terminators, big automata, knights or the like.

 

I'd charge a Levi with stuff that is specifically terrible just to tie him up. Key example: cultists suck a lot. But they cost 1/3 what the Levi does and won't let it go anywhere useful until he kills every single one. 

 

*EDIT*

 

Actually I just did the math. The 100 warp cult levy guys and their force commander I tend to use as an allied detachment is actually less expensive in its entirety than your common Levithan dread :D

Edited May 18, 2016 by Flint13

[Terminus]

^My fondest memory of using Dad in a game is when he killed a Questoris Knight-Paladin before it could swing when it charged him

What was lowering the Paladin's initiative?