Black Book - Insurrection (PUBLISHED)

[bluntblade]

Gishada. I decided to soften the name a little.

[Chief Captain Redd]

Yep, you're right. I'm just used to the Anishinaabegmowin spelling. It's funny as if you were to read it as a Anishinaabegmowin word now it'd actually be harsher as single vowels strong, double vowels soft.

[Sigismund229]

blunt: In total, the Bears lost about 80% of their forces present over Kataii to one thing or another and, to me at least, it makes little to no sense that the Totem Guard, despite their experience and equipment, would take fewer losses. If we look at similar instances, the Iron Hands Morlocks were near totally annihilated on Istvaan V. The only ones who survived were:

 

1. Badly injured and dragged away by Raven Guard&Salamanders or some of the few Morlocks who kept their heads

 

Or

 

2. Kept their heads and banded together with the Sallies and RG to fight their way out.

 

As I understood it, the vast majority of the IH Istvaan survivors had been orbit and got out of their as soon as :cuss hit the fan. In terms of their capacities as a unit, the Morlocks died on Istvaan with Ferrus Manus. Now, in terms of mentality, yes the Bears and Hands are different but the Bears mentality seems like it would lead to them to similar levels of losses, especially given how much they loved Daer'dd. He was their father and the GS and Godslayers killed him, to my mind they'd want vengeance. The result would be lots of dead Totem Guard when added together with the losses they'd take from being the legion command vessel. So maybe 5-6000 legionaries left on the Dragon, both Totem Guard and other Iron Bears?

[bluntblade]

We're talking ship-to-ship however. Not that many will get killed by the Dragon being bombarded. There are restrictions on how many could get off ship as well, and only so much damage the ship can take before it becomes unbelievable for it to survive a Warp transit.

 

On the other hand, lots will fall to the daemons.

I wasn't thinking Totem Guard, personally. I was taking it as read that they'd be all but wiped out

[Sigismund229]

Well, and if the Dragon can carry 15,000 and the Totem Guard number 10,000, that leaves 5000 others. Some of those will have died to boarders, some will have boarded enemy ships. The Totem Guard are mostly dead, a few other Iron Bears from other ships will be aboard but nowhere near enough to bring the Dragon up to full complement. So 5-6000 on board.

[bluntblade]

I was gonna say about 7-8000, have enemy boarders hold off until it becomes clear that Daer'dd has fallen. So those casualties still happen, just a little later.

 

Hang on, the Totem Guard number that many? Damn.

[Chief Captain Redd]

Yeah, remember the Totem Guard are Daer'dd's personal Grand Wartribe. And that in game they're not quite perfectly representative of what they are fully. And while they're all hand picked warriors they're great advantage is wargear, they have access to the legions finest equipment often personally worked on by Daer'dd or the Legion's finest Artificers. Daer'dd's actual bodyguard are The 66, led by Brutus Niimkiikaa and Solomon Grimm.

 

Also, for what it's worth I'd always assumed around 3000 Totem Guard survive, and about half of the 66. The one point I think could be made for higher survival rate is mobility, since all Totem Guard have teleportation devices, if they knew they needed to retreat they could jump to The Dragon's arrays on emergency recalls.

[bluntblade]

As far as numbers goes, the sheer quantity of Totem Guard rather ties our hands. But yeah, boarders later, partly to keep things easier to follow.

[MikhalLeNoir]

Hmm. Even if the totem guard is the special bodyguard of daer'dd we should remember that 2 Primarchs are attacking and I would think that they use their honor guard as well. Then they have the momentum of surprise and maybe create a situation where the technological advantage of the totem guard is rendered useless. (EMP-Impulse prior to the boarding for example)

[bluntblade]

We can keep numbers as Sigismund specified for the Totem Guard, I think. Boarders should probably grand to a halt the moment Daer'dd crosses over - having him loose and on the offence is something of a nightmare scenario.

[simison]

Redd, the legion banner on the first page of Iron Bear rules is empty. I was thinking about a quote from one of the legionnaires about sprucing up his armour. How does that sound?

[simison]

Now that we are shifting to a more staggered approach to the legions, here are some recommendations on what would be good candidates from Book 1. 

 

1. Harbingers: 2nd RoW, Enforcer unit for counterfeit Imperium, potential character? Daemon-infused Icarion will need a profile later.
2. Iron Bears: Nothing. Looking over what they have, it all fits into Great Crusade and Insurrection eras.
3. Grave Stalkers: Nothing. Again, what is there works for both time periods.
4. Godslayers: I recall Squig explicitly holding back on the 2nd RoW for the zombie army. Koschei will need a daemon prince profile. 
5. The Drowned: Daemon Morro, certainly, but I'm not sure what else. There's definitely potential for the 2nd RoW, but the Drowned are more antagonistic toward Morro than any Loyalist Legion. 
6. Scions Hospitalier: Pionus (Wraithknight) will need his profile later, and the 2nd RoW should be held back. Nothing else, I think. 

 

Overall, not too much needs to be changed. Looking at my current PDF, the Scions' 2nd RoW isn't in there, so that saves a step. Will need to keep the staggered idea in mind as we move forward. 

[bluntblade]

I think we'll want to add more characters as we go along. Can't remember if Nibaasiniiwi finds a space in Insurrection, but he and Bellows will be sizeable players later on.

 

With The Drowned, there's the question of how Slaaneshi influence manifests. We discussed a sonic CC unit ages ago

[Slips]

Yeah...WraithPionus definitely wasnt made with book 1 inclusion in mind.

[bluntblade]

Thirgen and Fyrstr might find their stock rising within the Fire Keepers over the course of the war. Similarly, Slynnat will be quite different depending on which stage the Berserkers are at

[Raktra]

Same with Kehl. Progressively more blobby as time passes by.

 

http://i1.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article7672442.ece/ALTERNATES/s1200/mr-blobbymirrorpix.jpg

[bluntblade]

Didn't my Carnage, Chosen of Khorne idea take your fancy? Less abhorrent than Mr Blobby, to be fair

[bluntblade]

I spy a typo in Aandeg's description. Pushed his powers "to far" - I'd personally gussy it up and have "pushed his powers beyond any sane limits."

[TheBlindPrimarch]

Same with Kehl. Progressively more blobby as time passes by.

 

http://i1.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article7672442.ece/ALTERNATES/s1200/mr-blobbymirrorpix.jpg

 

Just going through the treads at three in the morning, minding my own when...

 

"MY GOD WHAT IS THAT UNHOLY ABOMINATION!!!"

 

Out loud...needless to say, I'm in trouble

 

Thanks Raktra lol

[Sigismund229]

Ideas:

 

So, if we do end up dividing book 2 into three smaller books in order to cram more fluff in there, why don't we also build on the Crusade army list t emphasise the differences between the two(later three) sides of the Insurrection and the different style of warfare the legions are forced to adopt?

 

Insurrectionists:

Enforcers: As has been gone over

 

Thunder Guard(?): A custodian esc unit for Icarion. No clue what types of weapons they could use but maybe model their armour on his and use the same bronze and lacquered black colours that he does?(yes I know Icarion doesn't need an equivalent for everything the Emperor has but seeing as he's trying to establish himself as the next Emperor of the Imperium it would make sense for him to have one. After all, appearances matter) 

 

Loyalists:

? Squad: A squad with 1-3 legionaries in it and then 15-20 or so Imperialis Milita/Solar Auxilia. Troops choice. Might help get across that the legions are working more closely with the Imperial Army. 

 

Suzerainty

Corpse Takers: Messed up apothaceries who focus on stealing other legions gene-seed rather than recovering their own

[simison]

I'm against adding any more additional books to our plate. 8 books is still plenty.

 

I do have a positive announcement. The Harbingers' fluff chapter is finished!

[MikhalLeNoir]

The idea was to split the book into 3 seperate smaller books which together built book 2 in order to decrease crunch and beeong able to release the books earlier.

 

 

So no additional fluff. Just an optimisation. Like some comics are released. They release chapter after chapter and when an arc is fullfilled they release the whole book.

[simison]

So, how are the rules being handled?

[MikhalLeNoir]

If i habe it right then in book 2 are 6 factioms. The rules would then concentrate on 2 per small book. (Just a rough example)For example book 1 has the drowned, steel legion, scions and dune serpents in it. So rules for drowned and scions are already established in book 1. So the rules are for steel and dune serpents.

 

Book 2.2 would have the above in it plus now the void eagles emter and on traitor side for example traitor serpents.

 

Book 2.3 has the above plus predators and legion x. Sorry don't have in mind which legiins are in book 2. But in splitting and using elemtns from the prior books we lessen the crunch per book and hopefully can publisj faster

 

 

Hope it was clear what the idea behimd it is.

[simison]

Hmmm, I am intrigued by this idea. How do you handle the first chapter though? Just have it start off with the first campaign? Or make it its own book?