Hesh Kadesh Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 I'm usually here on my phone when travelling doing emails or else I lose about 30 billable hours a week! No thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphariusOmegon108 Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 I am kinda lost in this discussion, I will just wait for a clarification if or what we are gonna do for the armor Big Bad Squig 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigismund229 Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 I don't recall reading anywhere that the mkVI was designed specifically for stealth, where did you find that? Was it in Deliverence Lost and I've forgotten it? Â And as for a reason why the mkIII may no longer be adequate, chances are its internal systems are now quite out of date, meaning that the boarding specialists(Void Eagles, Crimson Lions and the Drowned) are going to need something to replace it, that has more up to date technology. However, if people really want to keep a normal mkVI, perhaps we could have two different varients? A mkVIA designed for stealth and a mkVIB designed to replace the mkIII Doctor Perils 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skalpynock Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 I don't recall reading anywhere that the mkVI was designed specifically for stealth, where did you find that? Was it in Deliverence Lost and I've forgotten it? Somewhere in one of the FW books, don't remember where. Stealth and mobility were the  Concerning void-armour, I admit a Mk3 with greenstuffed-in helm grilles (or Breacher helms) and Anvilius-pattern backpack would suffice. No need to create new armours when you have subpatterns and the general Mark V "throw-everything-nonstandard-in" designation. Having the Mark 6 designed as a modular platform, but only the stealth Corvus "Vulture" version survivng is a pretty good justification for Corvus-less Corvus armor. I'll stick by it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 I am kinda lost in this discussion, I will just wait for a clarification if or what we are gonna do for the armor If I understand it right, the consensus seems to be that we don't need a completely new armor variant, but we should switch Heresy-pattern to Insurrection-pattern, change up the lore to fit our canon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigismund229 Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 But why would Mars design a new armour varient designed for stealth when so few of our legions specialise in it compared to how many specialise in void or zone mortalis warfare? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demus Ragnok Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 (edited) But why would Mars design a new armour varient designed for stealth when so few of our legions specialise in it compared to how many specialise in void or zone mortalis warfare?How many " stealth" legion are there in the canon verse? Â My fear is that the project can't see the forest for the trees. That is if we try to recreate ever tiny little detail the primary point ( a story of brotherly betrayal) is lost in the wash. Â I agree with unique legion variants. My Fire Keepers have "Corinthian" pattern terminator armor. And it is incredibly durable, however only the primarch's elite bodyguard have it. Â If we start changing all the familiar things about the setting we have thrown the setting away and created a new one entirely. And I don't think that should happen. Edited November 5, 2015 by Demus Ragnok Athrawes, Hesh Kadesh and Dosjetka 3 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigismund229 Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 But even keeping the name "Corvus"? Really? I see what you're saying about not focussing too much on minute details, but the only reason it was called Corvus in the normal 40kverse was because it was tested by the RG. Shouldn't we at least change the name? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 True enough but, if we keep the beaky, what could we otherwise name it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Why should it not be called Corvus? Jackals are not well known for their beaks. Â It was beaky armour before it was corvus. See my post before for how it fits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 The Black Death? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigismund229 Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 The beak was so that extra internal systems could be added and I don't think the mechanicum put too much though into naming things based on appearance. Seeing as the Jackals tested it, calling it the "Jackal" pattern would seem the logical solution Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demus Ragnok Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 (edited) But even keeping the name "Corvus"? Really? I see what you're saying about not focussing too much on minute details, but the only reason it was called Corvus in the normal 40kverse was because it was tested by the RG. Shouldn't we at least change the name?40/30k is full of names that defy reason. Â Leman Russ Battle Tank anyone? Â Think of this. Someone with no knowledge of this discussion reads BotL material and comes across "Jackal" armor. They don't think "Beaky" they think " um why are those dudes from StarGate in this universe." Â Point is my personal feeling is that it is just unnecessary for the continuation of the story. I feel changing the name will break believability more so than leaving it "Corvus", for those outside looking in that is. Edited November 5, 2015 by Demus Ragnok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelborn Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 What about Stalker pattern? Or something that has to do with stealth instead of jackal (hello go'a'uld) or corvus? Â This pattern was designed for stealth. Who uses stealth? Reconaissance, assassins, infiltrators. Then throw those animal names away and use some other names wich would fit like phantom or ghost. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikhalLeNoir Posted November 6, 2015 Author Share Posted November 6, 2015 What have I done????!!! Brother vs Brother because of a simple armor pattern.... That could lead to an Insurrection.... Â Just keep Corvus. Cause it is named for the beaky desigend helm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raktra Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Corvus is fine. Just say it's because the wearers become the birds of prey of the LA or some bollocks. Â Technically I've got my own TDA armour pattern going on, but I'm not weighing much on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 (edited) Now that I've got some Dune Serpents adopting Lamellar pattern armour, I should probably think about how it looks. It's updated Mk III, more flexible than the original whilst maintaining the same degree of protection. Thinner, overlapping plates at the joints and the lower torso might work. Does that sound reasonable? Â If we could have one of the more Scots-influenced Lions' gear bear some resemblance to Macbeth's armour in the recent film, that'd be awesome. Â Btw, Turrus' Warriors' salute - "hail the king that shall be", anyone? Edited June 8, 2016 by bluntblade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Perils Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 Now that I've got some Dune Serpents adopting Lamellar pattern armour, I should probably think about how it looks. It's updated Mk III, more flexible than the original whilst maintaining the same degree of protection. Thinner, overlapping plates at the joints and the lower torso might work. Does that sound reasonable? Â If we could have one of the more Scots-influenced Lions' gear bear some resemblance to Macbeth's armour in the recent film, that'd be awesome. Â Btw, Turrus' Warriors' salute - "hail the king that shall be", anyone? Â So basically, lamellar pattern is the best of both worlds between mk2 and mk3 ? I have to be honest, sounds mary sueish: the stealth legion gets the best armour in the imperium, better then all of the other legions ? What's the justification for the Dune Serpents getting this when the other legions don't ? Why do they choose this rather then mk4 ? Â What does Macbeth's armour look like ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 (edited) It'd just be their elite heavy hitters (and one Clan of the Crimson Lions, who developed it for their elites to use in boarding actions) - they don't field any Terminators, so this is as close as they come to that. They're tasked with taking and then holding key positions while the rest of their troops are deploying, so they opt for armour that's tougher than Mk IV whilst giving up some manoeuvrability - a marine certainly wouldn't be as fast in it as he would in Mk IV. It's not meant to be the best, simply a handy compromise used by those without access to Terminators. Â I don't really know how Mk III is represented in the rules, so if it's unreasonable on that front I won't object. Â As for Macbeth: http://flix.gr/en/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/macbeth2.jpg Edited June 9, 2016 by bluntblade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikhalLeNoir Posted June 9, 2016 Author Share Posted June 9, 2016 Rules for power armor marks are the same. And didn't have the lightning bearers too a hybrid armor? Just make it a style choice and give them fluff for the reason you mentioned. Rulewise it is the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Perils Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 It'd just be their elite heavy hitters (and one Clan of the Crimson Lions, who developed it for their elites to use in boarding actions) - they don't field any Terminators, so this is as close as they come to that. They're tasked with taking and then holding key positions while the rest of their troops are deploying, so they opt for armour that's tougher than Mk IV whilst giving up some manoeuvrability - a marine certainly wouldn't be as fast in it as he would in Mk IV. It's not meant to be the best, simply a handy compromise used by those without access to Terminators. Â I don't really know how Mk III is represented in the rules, so if it's unreasonable on that front I won't object. Â As for Macbeth: Â Â Â Rules for power armor marks are the same. And didn't have the lightning bearers too a hybrid armor? Just make it a style choice and give them fluff for the reason you mentioned. Rulewise it is the same. Â Yep, mark III is represented as a 3+ armour save... so yeah, power armour. I think that to be safe, mkIII would work just as well considering the fluff, I don't think there is a massive difference when it comes to mobility or protection between mkIII and mkIV: the big difference lies in the "toys" the mkIV has (especially sensors/targetters, that kind of thing...) If you absolutely want some kind of specific non-terminator armour, I'm fine with that, but you have to find a good reason in fluff terms that they would decide to develop an entirely new pattern of armour that essentially does the same thing as other patterns of armour, considering that it takes the Mechanicum at the height of its power several decades of conception and testing by four or five different legions to get mkVI done. Seems like massive effort for not much gain... Â Also, I don't mean to downplay your ideas, but is Macbeth actually wearing armour in that photo ? Just looks like a pile of rags and a slice of bad leather thrown over his shoulder, not worthy of either a major Scottish noble or an Astartes... If you want that kind of "armour", I'd call it some kind of recon armour variant rather then power armour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikhalLeNoir Posted June 9, 2016 Author Share Posted June 9, 2016 He wears a scale leather armor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Perils Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 He wears a scale leather armor Hum... my previous comment still stands: a major scottish noble-man of the 11th century shouldn't wear any less than ring-mail, and you'd need a damn good reason for an Astartes to not wear a variant of Power Armour, Terminator Armour, or Recon Armour... Â Now, an example from my own stable of DIYs would be my Hecatonchires: they don't wear power or terminator armour, instead using a style of scale armour developped initially by the Vitrian Dragoons? Why? Because they are stealthy descendants of the Raven Guard ? No, because a mutation of their gene-seed means that they do not have the black carapace, yet continue to fight in the Emperor's Name (weeeeellll...). They don't use a completely non-standard piece of equipment just because of the rule of cool: there is a reason for them to use something that hasn't been optimised by the Adeptus Mechanicus over decades or centuries. And despite how powerful the legions are, they still can't hope to rival the Cult Mechanicum's technological know-how. Â Another thing to take into account, is that when it comes to optimisation, there has to be give-and-take: if you find you need another pattern of armour which is as protective as mkIII yet more mobilem, then something else has to be given up somewhere, even if there isn't any influence in rules terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigismund229 Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 I apologize for not posting as much as I'd have liked to recently but exams wait for no man.  As to Macbeth style armour. Hmmm. Not too convinced. Perhaps if it was described as a type of recon armour made for flexibility that was made in a similar way to brigandine(two layers of leather with metal plates in between, in astartes' case probably adamantium). And I'd rather it was something all Lion clans used instead of something unique to one clan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 (edited) Sorry, I didn't phrase that properly at all. I really should have asked if we could just have some embellishments over the armour proper. I liked Sigi's idea of differentiating Clans but wasnt sure about drastically varying colour schemes, so I was wondering if those sorts of things could be used as Clan marks. Â Mk III is meant to be more about frontal protection, at least in the fluff - it was designed for space hulk actions. Hence some of the Lions using it for their breachers, updating it with some of the gizmos introduced with Mk IV which, while a better all-round armour, doesn't soak up damage to the front quite as well (or so the fluff led to me to believe - again, I could be wrong). I don't know if that reflects in the rules or not. Â Looking at it again, I'd say Mk IV probably makes more sense for the Dursk Rassan. That said, what are the properties of Jackal Mk VI armour? I believe we made them something different to the Corvus. Edited June 9, 2016 by bluntblade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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