Insurrection Pattern Power Armor

[Doctor Perils]

Sorry, I didn't phrase that properly at all. I really should have asked if we could just have some embellishments over the armour proper. I liked Sigi's idea of differentiating Clans but wasnt sure about drastically varying colour schemes, so I was wondering if those sorts of things could be used as Clan marks.

 

Mk III is meant to be more about frontal protection, at least in the fluff - it was designed for space hulk actions. Hence some of the Lions using it for their breachers, updating it with some of the gizmos introduced with Mk IV which, while a better all-round armour, doesn't soak up damage to the front quite as well (or so the fluff led to me to believe - again, I could be wrong). I don't know if that reflects in the rules or not.

 

Looking at it again, I'd say Mk IV probably makes more sense for the Dursk Rassan. That said, what are the properties of Jackal Mk VI armour? I believe we made them something different to the Corvus.

In terms of embellishment then something like that could work :)

 

I think that is indeed the general idea for the armour marks, but in game terms they are literally no different from one another, be they sturdy but slow mk3, bulky and cobbled together mk5 or lighter, stealthier and better equipped mk6. For your lamellar armour, you should definitely still find a very good reason for the Dune Serpents to develop it in the first place, and find a compensation against good protection and mobility.

[bluntblade]

It was Clan Enthos (the most tech-savvy Lions) who developed it partially in response to discovering the Rak'gol, whose agility posed a serious problem aboard space hulks.

 

As for downsides, I'm unsure except for less rear protection, making them vulnerable if an enemy flanks them. Hence why, in the exemplary battle, they have another Clan working flat-out to keep those flanks secure.

 

The Dune Serpents would use it for their assault elite - warriors who are expected to force bridgeheads, compensating for the Legion's relative lack of hand-to-hand power.

Edited June 9, 2016 by bluntblade

[Doctor Perils]

It was Clan Enthos (the most tech-savvy Lions) who developed it partially in response to discovering the Rak'gol, whose agility posed a serious problem aboard space hulks.

 

As for downsides, I'm unsure except for less rear protection, making them vulnerable if an enemy flanks them. Hence why, in the exemplary battle, they have another Clan working flat-out to keep those flanks secure.

Surely, if the whole reason for the armour's existence is a fast enemy (hence more likely to outflank a unit), they won't make themselves even more vulnerable to outflanking.

Plus, it makes it just sound even more like mk3, since mk3 is pretty much lamellar on the back already.

 

Please, do carry on thinking about this I don't think the full idea's quite there just yet, but I really don't want you to just chuck it out completely !

 

However, the first question you have to answer should really be: why do you, as an author in M3, want to give the CLs and DSs this unique armour?

• Is it just to make them a bit different ? That's not really good enough, yet that's what it's coming across like atm.
• Is it because you believe they can't actually manage to deal with the Rak'gol without it ? If so, then you should establish exactly what isn't sufficient about all marks of standard armour, write a story showcasing this defficiency, then find a way of circumventing these defficiencies, while finding ways of downgrading the armour in other ways to justify not going to Terminator (at least Tartaros or artificer)

It seems that the three main categories of evaluation of armour in the past have been protection, mobility, and equipment (including auto-senses, targetters etc.). As I understand things, here's a quick summary of grades:

1. MkI : P-, M+, E-
2. MkII: P+, M+, E+
3. MkIII: P++(+++ at front ?), M-, E+
4. MkIV: P=, M+, E+
5. MkV: P+, M+, E-
6. MkVI: P--, M++, E++
7. MkVII: P+, M+, E+

Edited June 9, 2016 by Slipstreams

[bluntblade]

Clan Mycenor and command squads have dibs on any Terminator suits the Lions receive, according to Sigi. So this started as an effort to show that Enthos have an affinity for tech, as that was the schtick they began with.

 

So, perhaps P equivalent to Mk III, M=, E+?

[Doctor Perils]

(thanks Slipstreams :) )

 

So, you wish to show that this specific clan are good at technology: they have some trouble against a xenos race, and decide to create an entirely new pattern of armour which allows them to defeat the xenos.

 

I still have a couple of problems with the setup you seem to be making:

• It's okay to try and show that a clan are good at technology. It is not okay to essentially say that the Mechanicum are essentially incompetent at their job, by completing a better job in much less time and with many less ressources, workers and experts.
• I haven't seen what they are looking for from this new armour:
  • do they want better mobility ? why not mkIV or VI ?
  • Do they want better protection ? Why not mkIII ?
  • Do they want both ? If it's so easy to create a new set of armour that is better then both mkIII and IV, why aren't all Legions using it ?
  • WHY do they want this improved mobility/protection, and how do they achieve it.
• Where is the give-and-take ? If it is better mobility then mkIII yet just as protective and well equipped, I can only see give-and-give, which seems just like the definition of mary-sueism to me...

[bluntblade]

OK. Honestly I can't see any way of really justifying the pattern, in that case. Can't win 'em all

[Chief Captain Redd]

What about adoption of some of the Bears' unique plate? I mean I'm not trying to toss them everywhere (though I feel like I often am) but the IIIrd is attached to the VIth at the beginning of the great crusade and Hectarion and Daer'dd are two of the closest brothers. And Totemic/Ironbound Plate sounds like it fills this gap perfectly (2+/6++, relentless, hardened) and it's basically cataphractii/heavy scale mail power armour.

[bluntblade]

I'm inclined to just step back to use of the different marks, perhaps updated to make use of auto-sense etc.

[Doctor Perils]

OK. Honestly I can't see any way of really justifying the pattern, in that case. Can't win 'em all

Nooooo.

 

I really should learn to shut up sometimes, I really don't want to stiffle creativity. I merely try and give criticism, which I hope to be constructive.

 

Soo, let's start again: this technologically-oriented clan of the Crimson Lions are up against the Rak'Gol, a fast and powerful xenos race that are prone to outflank space-marine forces and tear through the back armour of mkIII plate, and their weaponry can be so good as to tear through any part of mkIV plate. At least, that's how it sounds to me when we are trying to justify it.

Now, in this case, we have to find the Rak'gol's strengths and weeknesses, just like the CL clan would do.

1. They are fast. probably even faster then a marine in mkIV plate if they can actually outflank them.
2. They can tear through standard power armour, and this clan have not got access to Terminator armour.

I don't know if the Rak'Gol have any weeknesses, but it actually sounds to me like you do have grounds to develop a new pattern, just not in the same vein as you had been thinking: to me, this description sounds more like your marines need more protection even then mkIII, but probably don't even need as much mobility: from there, we can imagine a mix between mkIII and mk.

As we want to up-armour mkIII, and fast (we aren't speaking about a matter of decades here, we're speaking months!), molecular bonding studs, with new plates around the back of the armour, sound like they could be a good option.

 

This of course means we have to reduce mobility, as the extra weight of the added plating, and covering up once mobile plates at the joints, willl make the armour much more cumbersome. It might also drain the power packs more rapidly, making the armour potentially unpredictable, which is why no other legion really adopts it (you don't want your armour to suddenly stop moving during a fight): here's the give-and-take.

 

 

Now we can take this one step further: this is rather quirky armour compared to standard mkIII armour, so it might deserve some rules.

1. Stronger then mkIII, but probably not as strong as artificer (let's not exagerate things): I'd propose 3+ armour save that re-rolls 1s (which gives you around a 78% success rate, as opposed to artificers 83% success rate or normal PA's 67% rate, if I did my calculations right)
2. Less mobile: how about -1 I, as well as perhaps rerolling 6s in movement (including through terrain, running, assaulting or consolidating)?

Finally, I believe that Sigismund has already completed his wargear slots, and there is already another legion with special armour. Not only that, but this mkIII/V doesn't seem representative of the legion as a whole... How do we give this to somebody then ? Well, I'd say we could give either the Myrvallen of the clan, or the clan's Forge Lord special rules for the future, one of them being that he allows 1d3 infantry squads to upgrade their power armour, at no additional cost.

 

 

Of course, this isn't suitable to the Dune Serpent's lamellar armour...

[bluntblade]

That all sounds pretty reasonable, and makes sense. I also like the irony that it's a million miles from what actual lamellar armour did.

[Doctor Perils]

Hence the :

 

Of course, this isn't suitable to the Dune Serpent's lamellar armour...

 

 

:P

 

I was trying to show how I go through the process of imagining character-based decisions, rather then omniscient-based decisions. Of course, this is just an option. If you want to do something else, please do, but you have to find a logical in-universe explanation and description for them

[Raktra]

I know what mine'll end up being at least: http://puppetswar.com/product.php?id_product=210

[bluntblade]

I'll give it some thought when my current works in progress are a bit tidier.

[Skalpynock]

It occured to me this morning that production Mark V would be the most prevalent pattern of armor during the Insurrection, due to the war lasting so long. Mark II and III are costly to produce, Mark VI is still experimental. There we are with Mk IV and V, but with loyalists needing to rebuild their strengths and traitors experimenting with cloned marines, Mark IV is often too much of an investment. By the same logic, Indomitus termies and Castraferrum dreads may see an increase in number.

[Slips]

For Armour Marks, I agree. Mk V would become the most prevalent alongside any other cheap-to-produce and easy-to-maintain patterns or future developments.

 

For TDA, I mean, yeah, I guess Indomitus would become more and more prevalent but we don't know much about the Canon suit known as Saturnyne.

 

For Dreads it would be the Castaferrum and the Contemptor-Cortus, imo.

[bluntblade]

Mk V might end up meaning an even broader range of armours than in the Heresy. Gorgon armour could be repurposed as something Cognis develop.

[Sigismund229]

Agreed, mkV would become very common. However, I suspect some legion's would still invest a lot into getting hold of mkIII. I was thinking the Void Eagles and Crimson Lions particularly.

And also, whereas in canon the two sides seem to just throw away bodies still in their armour(for some reason) I imaginr in the Insurrection there'd be a lot of scavenging of armour going on, even if just for used plates that can be melteddown and remade.

[bluntblade]

Odd that there's never any mention of scavenging. I might add that to the Warbringers and Bears story.

[Sigismund229]

Odd that there's never any mention of scavenging. I might add that to the Warbringers and Bears story.

I awlays found it wierd how in the canon Heresy the legions just seem to throw away all that reusable material rather than scavenging.

[Skalpynock]

Odd that there's never any mention of scavenging. I might add that to the Warbringers and Bears story.

You have somewhat, in the form of inheritance.

[Slips]

There actually is some mention of scavenging in canon 30k, just look at some of the Blackshield Artwork where a Marine has a Thousand Son Shoulder and SoH leg or something to that effect.

 

I would assume that the only bodies in armour they'd dump would be those that are beyond scavenging. That might not be so much the case early into the Heresy due to supply lines not yet being ruined but as it progresses, it wouldn't make any sense to not scavenge for gear.

[Sigismund229]

There actually is some mention of scavenging in canon 30k, just look at some of the Blackshield Artwork where a Marine has a Thousand Son Shoulder and SoH leg or something to that effect.

 

I would assume that the only bodies in armour they'd dump would be those that are beyond scavenging. That might not be so much the case early into the Heresy due to supply lines not yet being ruined but as it progresses, it wouldn't make any sense to not scavenge for gear.

The RG also scavenge in the imediate aftermath if the Dropsite Massacre. However, the other legions don't seem to. Following Armatura, the WE remove the gene-seed from their dead then just leave them cos "We're not a sentimental legion".

[bluntblade]

 

Odd that there's never any mention of scavenging. I might add that to the Warbringers and Bears story.

You have somewhat, in the form of inheritance.

I was thinking something on a larger scale; Nibaasiniiwi might pass through an area where heaps of recovered pieces are being inventoried (is that a word?)

 

Slynnat will acquire his post-bleeding outfit from dead Berserkers, Eagle Warriors and Crimson Lions.

[Sigismund229]

 

 

Odd that there's never any mention of scavenging. I might add that to the Warbringers and Bears story.

You have somewhat, in the form of inheritance.

I was thinking something on a larger scale; Nibaasiniiwi might pass through an area where heaps of recovered pieces are being inventoried (is that a word?)

 

Slynnat will acquire his post-bleeding outfit from dead Berserkers, Eagle Warriors and Crimson Lions.

Inventoried is indeed a word

[bluntblade]

Actually, this can be a thing for the Fire Keepers story, especially with the protagonist being a Techmarine