[HH1.0] 30k Space Wolves tactics

[Dantay VI]

Thank you Baluc and Letsyoudown.

 

Will look into Raiders.

 

I am assuming that phobos land raiders are the 40K variant used in 30K?

[Coptimas]

Thank you Baluc and Letsyoudown.

 

Will look into Raiders.

 

I am assuming that phobos land raiders are the 40K variant used in 30K?

 

Hi Dantay, they are. It's the assault Land Raider and other than Spartans and Mastodons our only ground based assault vehicle. 

[Runefyre]

Unfortunately, my brother had to cancel our game last night. Disappointed.

 

It would have been a tough matchup. Armoured Breakthrough with summoning *shudders*.

[Nightmare84]

Anyone actually played a game yet? Just so there can be some comment with authority on the subject.

 

Played twice, rules are great. How I had constructed my legion before inferno turned out pretty close to what works with our rules anyway. I used lots of despoilers before now I use them as slayers.

I keep forgetting the +1 ws on the charge though. Haven't had a chance to use Russ yet.

Will be trying out pale hunters later this week and hopefully get Russ on the table

[Runefyre]

 

Anyone actually played a game yet? Just so there can be some comment with authority on the subject.

 

Played twice, rules are great. How I had constructed my legion before inferno turned out pretty close to what works with our rules anyway. I used lots of despoilers before now I use them as slayers.

I keep forgetting the +1 ws on the charge though. Haven't had a chance to use Russ yet.

Will be trying out pale hunters later this week and hopefully get Russ on the table

 

Would you care to share your exact list? I'm curious to know what you think worked the best, and what was less effective.

[Guest Drekkan]

So this is my collection of 6th legion models. 

 

I collected fr the hell of it with no clear plan in mind plus i thought what I was collecting was fairly safe and would be in the Wolves legion lists

 

I am completely clueless rules wise, so I could definitely do with some help

 

I really have no clue as to what to do with it. I am not sure what RoW we can safely use.

 

I have a second Spartan, anther Fire Raptor and a Mastodon in bits to add to the pile.

 

I do not plan on adding any more infantry models until FW start releasng the SW kits, so now is a good time to look at getting the mech side straightened out.

 

I would like to run a pod heavy list (Kharybdis, s dread claws and some dreadnaught pods for Levi's) but what would I need for this?

 

I would like an airborne cavalry list, preferably centred around the Caestus, Eagle (maybe a second eagle) and he 2 raptors... Maybe use jetbikes, outriders or assault troops too. Would this be do-able with the Space WOlves legion?

 

Thirdly an armoured assault utilising Spartans, land raiders and Sicarans or pred variants, with the Mastodon for big games.. What would I need to add to my vehicle pool and is there a RoW we can use for this and keep the wolf flavour?

 

What is Pale Hunter? 

 

As the 2 Space Wolves RoW seem infantry heavy, I will look into these more once the models start flowing from FW.

 

Infantry wise I currently have

20 man breacher unit with 4 meltas

3 x 10 man assault squads

1x10 man veteran squad with 2 meltas

1 x 10 man veteran squad with 2missile launchers and suspensr webs

1 x 10 man seeker squad loaded with combi plasmas

1 x 5 man recon with sniper rifles

1 x 5 man tartaros squad with cmbi melta and chain fist

1 x 5 man catas with dual claws plus heavy flamer

1 x 5 man catas with combi meltas and chain fist pus a plasma blaster

1 x 5 man catas with combi bolters big axes and reaper

1 x 5 man catas with thunder hammer and shields (illegal load out)

1 x 5 man catas with combi weapons and reaper

Russ

10 x Praetors, consuls, Geigor, & priests.

 

Any and all help appreciated

 

Firstly, I bow to your forgeworld collection.

 

Secondly, have fun while playing your fav minis mixing matching with the current rules.

 

Thirdlly, as you said models have not start flowing yet from fw, so kitbash them for fun !

[Baluc]

Grey Slayers and 5th edition Grey Hunters share only the most superfical qualities. Grey Slayers could never be 5th edition Grey Hunters, and that is assuming that Grey Hunters themselves would be boss in 30k.

 

Anyway. Depends on the level of game you want to discuss. How intense a meta are you talking about?

​Grey Slayers under perform generally they won't outright kill a tactical squad off an objective without taking casualties of their own, unless you significantly over invest. Talking AA, Great Frostblade and 3+ power weapons. After fighting against the naked Grey Slayers the players who took Tactical squads added an apothecary and Grey Slayers have struggled since. I would need to spend about 65 points to make them comparable, and that is a Jav with 4 krak missiles so...

 

The Rhino is pointless, I used to points to get more Anti-tank weapons in the army. Actually slows them down, and it is wasted points in Dominion.

 

Varagyr are actually strong if you wring every rule out of them. Still about 5 ppm too much but that's like as a SW I guess.

 

Pale Hunter is a trap, you are almost never better outflanking than you are scouting. Without Red-Blade you have to actually specifically build your list for the RoW to present any benefit to you. That means anything with outflank, and a gun (lighting, Javs, big unit of Vorax). Since most armies are designed or capable of delivering a heavy blow by turn 2 anyway. There are a few benefits the RoW could have provided to the army to make the RoW more appealing or you know not forbidding Dreadclaws. The Fury of the Pack rule just leads you to having a ton of soft Kill Points if you try to take advantage of it. Both RoW are pretty disappointing when you realize we lose access to the best generic RoW, without having a Legion one we can default too. Why is the furious charge benefit limited to Grey Slayers and Assault Marines. Terminators are the line breaking unit of choice, and I doubt it would have been op to give it to vets as well considering how unlikely we would be to take more infantry. But, at least with a faqed Russ there would be some synergy there.

 

Red-Blade, without the h/r is a bit of a tease. His rules on paper seem good, unit you realize you can't let your power armour/assault/scoring units charge turn 3. I think he is best outflanking Legion Terminators in a Phobos, both are tough enough to handle situations on their own, while your base of Grey Slayers defend their objectives. He himself is a bit of a conundrum as you are basically looking at CMD Sqd Phobos or including a Spartan in your army when you field him.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I don't think your sergeants have access to great frost weapons... probably best to wait for the inevitable FAQ.

 

I would definitely load up on a couple hidden power fists.

[Runefyre]

I don't think your sergeants have access to great frost weapons... probably best to wait for the inevitable FAQ.

 

I would definitely load up on a couple hidden power fists.

I think Huscarls should, it's only fair considering DG sergeants get scythes, WS sergeants get their glaives (that are legit ap2 at I).

[Robzilla]

I don't think your sergeants have access to great frost weapons... probably best to wait for the inevitable FAQ.

 

I would definitely load up on a couple hidden power fists.

I'm Pretty sure they do.

Every frost weapon except the great frost blade is significantly inferior to a power fist, but the entry costs more to purchase than a fist.

 

Plus in the other instances where only a specific type could be selected (both in the terminators and the deathsworn) those types were mentioned specifically.

In this instance it just says 'weapon'.

I'd assume that meant any of them.

 

The hidden fists are a godsend and most of my lists include them, but I'm liking the idea of a pair of combi Plas too... I guess it will depend on what your squads are geared for I guess.

Edited February 14, 2017 by Robzilla

[Baluc]

There isn't really a basis for a ruling to say Great frost blades are not a "frost weapon". Especially considering that in every other situation where it is just claw, sword, axe it says so. 

 

I early on decided against giving Grey Slayers shooting weapons. It distracts from their role, they have no rules that really let them benefit from having them. In almost any situation if you can rapid fire you are better off making your charge as certain as possible. 

 

2 combi-plasma in this case would be 4 power axes, which would be better in almost every situation especially considering we have no shooting rules, but do have access to furious charge. Also remember the Warrior's Mettle only works with bolters.

 

Power fists are a different story. But if you start adding up the points for all this support equipment you start coming up the cost of a support cortus or a terminator squad which would get the job done better and pick up a few extra jobs along the way. 

 

Now if deathsworn could get combi-weapons... Prefered Enemy combi-meltas before a charge would be bananas

 

From a strictly competitive point of view, we are likely to be running Bloodied Claw, or no RoW so we can take things Quad Mortars and DDPs

[Lord Blackwood]

I'm probably going to take great frost weapons on my Sargents

[sturguard]

Baluc,

What supporting units do you see working with the Bloodied claw? So fliers are good, I was going to take a Lightning. I was also going to take some javelins. I can take a Damocles as one of our required HQs. 

 

I'd encourage you to write FW a letter and maybe put some suggestions in for the FAQ. It just seems a shame when our best options are not to take a RoW to be competitive or to use vanilla units, I mean isnt the point of choosing SW to actually get some unique SW stuff rather than just using vanilla units painted grey?

 

I like you have struggled to find anything the will work competitively, any list will work fine and play great in the basement, however,  it more competitive arenas it would be nice to have something to hold a candle to the better lists.

[Purge the Daemon]

Baluc,

What supporting units do you see working with the Bloodied claw? So fliers are good, I was going to take a Lightning. I was also going to take some javelins. I can take a Damocles as one of our required HQs. Thought the bonus reserve rolls make little sense when we can't take drop pods units with deepstrike cause we have none. Then even fire raptors/ caestus rams being limited is just a pain. As well as possibly the best hit and run candidates such as combat bikes competing with the few Fliers that benefit from the roll is just not great.

 

I'd encourage you to write FW a letter and maybe put some suggestions in for the FAQ. It just seems a shame when our best options are not to take a RoW to be competitive or to use vanilla units, I mean isnt the point of choosing SW to actually get some unique SW stuff rather than just using vanilla units painted grey?

 

I like you have struggled to find anything the will work competitively, any list will work fine and play great in the basement, however, it more competitive arenas it would be nice to have something to hold a candle to the better lists.

Fliers work much better in the Pale hunter due to the bonus reserve roll. Which is really the best part of that right.

 

Bloodied Claw really wants to say run at the enemy with grey slayers. While it's nice to have heavy support and drop pods. The fact our primary scoring unit can be abated into charging dreadnoughts when trying to camp an objective is a pain as it forces us to charge. There are ways to play around this sure but sometimes it will be unavoidable and could cost you dearly.

Edited February 14, 2017 by Purge the Daemon

[sturguard]

Yes but the Damocles adds +1 to reserves as well. The Pale Hunter is too restrictive in units you cant take and to be honest, I dont see hit and run being that great an asset for the units you would typically use for SW.

 

At least with the Bloodied Claw you can use Drop Pods correct, and get your GS's into place on objectives. I think the rerolling for charging distances is much better for our legion terminator units and 30k Wulfen units (Cant think of their name).

[Purge the Daemon]

Yes but the Damocles adds +1 to reserves as well. The Pale Hunter is too restrictive in units you cant take and to be honest, I dont see hit and run being that great an asset for the units you would typically use for SW.

 

At least with the Bloodied Claw you can use Drop Pods correct, and get your GS's into place on objectives. I think the rerolling for charging distances is much better for our legion terminator units and 30k Wulfen units (Cant think of their name).

I've actually been thinking about the Damocles because it cheaply with some use takes out 1 of our mandatory HQs. The Bloodied Claw is much better I would have to agree I don't really understand why it has buffs to assault Marines because I just can't see anyone taking assault marine blobs after Grey Slayers blobs. Howl of the death wolf is good though Russ gives it to and while it stacks how many times do you need to use it is questionable. On the other hand at least it's fat less restrictive which is nice.

[sturguard]

Define no artillery, immobile and slow and purposeful- as far as the bloodied claw- what units are restricted in other words.

[Dantay VI]

A shame as I really fancied buying in some rapiers..

[Robzilla]

A shame as I really fancied buying in some rapiers..

As ace as rapiers are, generally, I don't feel they fit the style of play of space wolves.

 

Dont get me wrong, they are fantastic units, but I don't feel they compliment the general pattern of lists we are seeing.

 

What with the Legion playing aggressively, you would end up blocking line of sight to a lot of the targets anyway.

 

Land speeders and lightnings seem to be the best alternatives point for point, and seem to favour our aggressive style more, with their mobility.

[SW1]

I was going to jump on the Heresy Train but might give it till the ETL at this rate. Most armies I do just end up huge and not very effective.

 

I really want my SW's to be at least semi effective so rushing in which is really hard to resist will be my first aim.

 

Is there any models/characters load outs that are a safe bet to be really effective so I can get a little bit of a HH fix between now and then?

[Dantay VI]

Can  fit Lightnings, Fire Raptors and Storm Eagles i the same list?

[sturguard]

It would depend on how many points. 2000k not really as thats 1000 pts right there that doesnt even do anything turn 1. 2500 pts I guess but that doesnt leave as much on the ground to take objectives.

 

So  I guess we have to take Dreadclaw Drop Pods for grey slayers with Bloodied Claw as the drop pod entry says Immobile. I dont know what FW has against SW taking drop pods, seems rather ridiculous. Would SW taking drop pods in any of their formations make them broken or top tier- not at all. Some of the decisions they made are awful questionable. I wonder who was the designer who worked on the SW.

[Dantay VI]

O play at 3-5000 points

[sturguard]

At that point level you could take anything you wanted I would imagine.

[Purge the Daemon]

It would depend on how many points. 2000k not really as thats 1000 pts right there that doesnt even do anything turn 1. 2500 pts I guess but that doesnt leave as much on the ground to take objectives.

 

So I guess we have to take Dreadclaw Drop Pods for grey slayers with Bloodied Claw as the drop pod entry says Immobile. I dont know what FW has against SW taking drop pods, seems rather ridiculous. Would SW taking drop pods in any of their formations make them broken or top tier- not at all. Some of the decisions they made are awful questionable. I wonder who was the designer who worked on the SW.

I feel that like a lot of unit decisions I want to make just seem invalidated and other options which maybe seem cool are horrendous in execution.

 

Like you can't run an assault unit in a flyer because if your opponent brings some anti air the results can be horrendous especially for expensive units. And then the fact I just can't use drop pods is what I feel orbital assault is looking better but if I take it I'm playing :cussty world eaters. Also trying to fit tons of HQs in drop pods is just not fun either.

 

Actually to surmise my thoughts on the VIth I almost always feel like I'm writing a world eaters list but I'm not getting as much value for my points as the wolves with it. Even Russ who may beat angron in a 1v1 is way less useful because realistically you can't use him as a Leviathan dread because he bounces off of tanks. Like sure he is harder to kill he also kills less but if he's not in a primarch 1v1 he's not that scarry cause a dread will stall him all game.

Edited February 14, 2017 by Purge the Daemon