[HH1.0] 30k Space Wolves tactics

[Nova_chron]

How will a dread stall russ all game he is str 8 with sunder if you swing his axe

[Baluc]

Bloodied claw is decent because it gives your Grey Slayers a decent buff, Howl, and +1 combat resolution, trading for units most SW players probably weren't going to take like Rapiers. But opens up our full allied chart. But if I'm honest I always feared it was going to be this way. SW are an infantry assault army, unless they gave us a ton of free rules or gear it was going to be an uphill battle. It looks like the first draft of someone trying to make it work, it just fell short nothing that can be done about it now. 

 

Wolves are going to struggle with armour it just is what it is, we have fewer points to spend on tanks and anti-tank weapons than other legions and especially AM and SA. So getting the most out off fast attack in terms of high strength low ap weapons. The Lightning is an interesting solution, in Pale Hunter you get that 2+ reserve role, I just not sure if the risk of rolling that 1 works out for the 80% Spartan kill rate. I just have visions of rolling a '1' turn 2 against a Primarch deathstar and instead of immobilising that big infantry unit it arrives in my deployment zone and ends the game.  I'm more looking at getting as many rolls on the vehicle damage table as possible to score immobilised or destroyed results. I think tanks like the Typhon and the Fellblade will be ever presents since our lists will almost always include a Spartan. Thus hurting the ability of one hit wonders like the Lightning to disproportionately affect our game. 

 

I don't trust Grey Slayers so they don't get points from me, its sad but its just the way it is. No assault vehicles, very rarely weapons, and never bolters or combi weapons. If they just came with bolters at the same cost they would immediately be a better unit as they would have some utility. 

 

I've been looking at Contemptor/Levi on foot geared for combat, but haven't had a chance to test them out yet. Lack of DDP is rough and might actually tip me into no RoW territory. Then again those 100 pts have been used so no going back on this build.

 

Someone asked about Characters, I've come up with these as my go to's

 

Praetor

Frost Claw, Power Fist

Iron Halo

Digital Weapons

 

Centurion

Terminator Armour

Great Frost Blade

 

Forge Lord

Great Frost Blade

Boarding Shield

Cyber Familiar

Rad Grenades

 

Priest of Fenris

Speaker

Great Frost Blade

 

As to feeling like WE... yes kind of, but keep in mind we are resistant to AL and RG infiltrate alpha strike which dominated the meta for quite some time. Forcing them to buy drop pods and make their armies a little smaller. I've actually drafted some AC to protect me from Drop pods as well. 

Storm Eagles are a terrible assault vehicle outside of apoc or megabattles. 

[Purge the Daemon]

Bloodied claw is decent because it gives your Grey Slayers a decent buff, Howl, and +1 combat resolution, trading for units most SW players probably weren't going to take like Rapiers. But opens up our full allied chart. But if I'm honest I always feared it was going to be this way. SW are an infantry assault army, unless they gave us a ton of free rules or gear it was going to be an uphill battle. It looks like the first draft of someone trying to make it work, it just fell short nothing that can be done about it now.

 

Wolves are going to struggle with armour it just is what it is, we have fewer points to spend on tanks and anti-tank weapons than other legions and especially AM and SA. So getting the most out off fast attack in terms of high strength low ap weapons. The Lightning is an interesting solution, in Pale Hunter you get that 2+ reserve role, I just not sure if the risk of rolling that 1 works out for the 80% Spartan kill rate. I just have visions of rolling a '1' turn 2 against a Primarch deathstar and instead of immobilising that big infantry unit it arrives in my deployment zone and ends the game. I'm more looking at getting as many rolls on the vehicle damage table as possible to score immobilised or destroyed results. I think tanks like the Typhon and the Fellblade will be ever presents since our lists will almost always include a Spartan. Thus hurting the ability of one hit wonders like the Lightning to disproportionately affect our game.

 

I don't trust Grey Slayers so they don't get points from me, its sad but its just the way it is. No assault vehicles, very rarely weapons, and never bolters or combi weapons. If they just came with bolters at the same cost they would immediately be a better unit as they would have some utility.

 

I've been looking at Contemptor/Levi on foot geared for combat, but haven't had a chance to test them out yet. Lack of DDP is rough and might actually tip me into no RoW territory. Then again those 100 pts have been used so no going back on this build.

 

Someone asked about Characters, I've come up with these as my go to's

 

Praetor

Frost Claw, Power Fist

Iron Halo

Digital Weapons

 

Centurion

Terminator Armour

Great Frost Blade

 

Forge Lord

Great Frost Blade

Boarding Shield

Cyber Familiar

Rad Grenades

 

Priest of Fenris

Speaker

Great Frost Blade

 

As to feeling like WE... yes kind of, but keep in mind we are resistant to AL and RG infiltrate alpha strike which dominated the meta for quite some time. Forcing them to buy drop pods and make their armies a little smaller. I've actually drafted some AC to protect me from Drop pods as well.

Storm Eagles are a terrible assault vehicle outside of apoc or megabattles.

We might do okay vs alpha and raven Guard though even if we block infiltrating they can always change mutable tactics. Like I would concede we do better vs. Them at least by making them change their game plan. On the other hand gun line armies iron warriors/fists/mech/solar Auxilla and any of the sort are the worst nightmare we could face.

 

In terms of characters if running a death stat I like this chap:

 

Priest of Fenris

-speaker of the dead

-aether rune armour

-great frost blade

 

He's not super cheap but his bonuses are pretty good here packs some punch and vs tsons which will be poping up especially in my local meta the aether rune is very good though also very expensive.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I am curious how many here played 5th edition SW.

 

I decided today SW will be my next army. <3

[Baluc]

I am curious how many here played 5th edition SW.

 

I decided today SW will be my next army. <3

I have been playing SW since blood claws were Ws5. 5th edition wolves were amazing because at the time leaf blower gaurd were tearing it up. A combination of 18 split fire missiles, grey hunters in pods with 2 meltaguns and thunderwolf cav ended that... until grey knights showed up that is.

[Ranwulf]

I am curious how many here played 5th edition SW.

 

I decided today SW will be my next army. <3

I did, and Blood Angels too. I miss dem times when my Grey Hunters were part of a solid army and not my Thunder Wolves. In fact, the Grey Slayers being a close match to the Hunters made me very willing to play them. People used a LOT of Razorback spam, small squads of Grey Hunters with Wolf Guard attached. Never really liked that type of  game play. I prefered the big grey hunter squads, with Mark of the Wulfen and the Banner, with a hidden powerfist. The Grey Slayers are a bit closer to it, not to the SAME extent (you can't add the same amount of meltas or plasma, and they don't have And They Shall Know No Fear), they are somewhat more expensive, but the amount of Power Weapons and other customs things may compensate it. More Weapon Skill on the charge, the bonus from the RoW, and even their size may make them good. All in all, this is all about testing and dealing with your meta.

 

Ran

[sturguard]

I am curious how many here played 5th edition SW.

 

I decided today SW will be my next army. <3

I have been playing wolves since 2nd edition.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Ran I feel you. I was a huge fan of Grey Slayers back for the 13th Company... AaaaaaRooooooo !!!

[Ranwulf]

Ran I feel you. I was a huge fan of Grey Slayers back for the 13th Company... AaaaaaRooooooo !!!

Yeah, the Deathsworn don't really give that vibe of savagery that a Mark of the Wulfen gives for example. Rolling a 1d6 to add attacks and Rend, that felt closer to how bestial and agressive they could be. The Deathsworn to me remind me far more of closer precise killers, untouched by rage and tended with calculated precision. That's mostly because they use Power Axes as base, and that is one of the slowest weapons of the game, and also have a good Saving Throw, instead of something closer to how a berzerker would go, usually with light armor, lots of attacks and before the enemy or at the same time. Even their rule of striking even after dead reminds me less of a berzerker attack, but more of a skillful warrior being killed but his discipline allows him to attack stil.

 

Either way, now it's all about testing.

 

Ran

[Marshal Loss]

Adding rampage to their rules would have made them feel more appropriate to me. Fearless warriors when in combat, that go nuts when outnumbered - sounds suitably savage to me.

 

What do people think of Priests? What units are you all throwing them in?

[depthcharge12]

Surprised no one has mentioned using a forge lord or Praevian to augment their list. Both can take Castellax, while more pricy now, still do a lot for their points value. I'd use them with darkfire lances (multi meltas on them seem a waste to me) and have them threaten armor in the center of the board.

 

If you're jonezing for a dedicated assault unit, take some outflanking vorax in the Pale hunter rite. AP2 power blades at initiative should be nasty. And they come with lightning guns for some pinch AT.

[Nightmare84]

 

 

Anyone actually played a game yet? Just so there can be some comment with authority on the subject.

 

Played twice, rules are great. How I had constructed my legion before inferno turned out pretty close to what works with our rules anyway. I used lots of despoilers before now I use them as slayers.

I keep forgetting the +1 ws on the charge though. Haven't had a chance to use Russ yet.

Will be trying out pale hunters later this week and hopefully get Russ on the table

 

Would you care to share your exact list? I'm curious to know what you think worked the best, and what was less effective.

 

 

 

List is still a little bit generic as im building unique units at the moment.

 

for 3k i took

 

praetor

speaker of dead

priest of iron

 

16x grey slayers in spartan

10x slayers in rhino

9x volkite support squad

breachers in proteus

levi

2x vindi laser

Contemptor

10 vets in rhino

 

Breacher in proteus was a waste of points but i didnt want to double levi or do anything too cheesy.

but as it turns out i should of as i went against a thousand son deathstar. he asked me to not bring Russ since he didnt have a primarch

Next time he wants to have a game im bringing the A game.

[Purge the Daemon]

Adding rampage to their rules would have made them feel more appropriate to me. Fearless warriors when in combat, that go nuts when outnumbered - sounds suitably savage to me.

 

What do people think of Priests? What units are you all throwing them in?

Biggest use is they fit in a spartan with russ and Red-Blade + deathstars you can then keep him as a Speaker with aether rune and it fits in 25 slots.

[Frater Cornelius]

Anyone actually played a game yet? Just so there can be some comment with authority on the subject.

I did and posted something a few pages back. This was basically the turning point where I abandoned the notion of melee blobs on foot and reminded myself how important it is to keep the GS relatively save for scoring purposes. Some sort of transport and not overspending on killiness is the name of the game. 200 points max per unit and use actual unit killers to push forward.

[Purge the Daemon]

What do us wolven folk think of this deathstar.

 

Russ

Hvarl Red-Blade

Priest of Fenris (aether rune, great frost blade)

10 Varagyr (10 frost claws, 7 power fists, 3 chain fists)

Spartan (armoured ceramite, flare shields, dozer blade)

 

Comes in at 1730 points which is crazy expensive.

[Blindhamster]

Spartan can't hold all that?

 

10 terminators/varagyr is all the transport capacity?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

25 wounds by my count .

 

I like it.

[Lord Blackwood]

Spartan can't hold all that?

 

10 terminators/varagyr is all the transport capacity?

 

10 Terminators  = 20 Spots

Russ = 2 Spots 

Priest = 1 Spot 

 

I  count 23 / 25 spots full in the spartan should be fine , horrifically expensive , but it certainly will fit 

[Legionnaire of the VIIth]

 

Spartan can't hold all that?

 

10 terminators/varagyr is all the transport capacity?

 

10 Terminators  = 20 Spots

Russ = 2 Spots 

Priest = 1 Spot 

 

I  count 23 / 25 spots full in the spartan should be fine , horrifically expensive , but it certainly will fit 

 

+ Hvarl the Red = 2 spots (Tartaros Pattern TDA). So Bladewolf stated 23 + 2 = 25/25 which is the Spartan's maximum capacity.

[Blindhamster]

My bad, in my head I had the spartan as 20 capacity. Gosh 25 is silly for its size... 5 less than a thunderhawk... really...

[Purge the Daemon]

My bad, in my head I had the spartan as 20 capacity. Gosh 25 is silly for its size... 5 less than a thunderhawk... really...

Its more so the thunderhawk rules are super old a mastodon is at 40. Maybe it should be a bit bigger but the resin cost goes up a ton with size.

[Jarkaira]

^ Somehow the price doesn't go up a ton with size in China.

 

I would love to see FW relocating their factories to China. Would substantially lower the cost and thus negate the sales of pirated miniatures...

 

I have always wondered how they shove so much marines into a tin can and still count it as assault vehicle. 25 marines in a Spartan is pretty much impossible unless they are on top of each other and bare naked and not each of the legion is Emperor's Children :)

[Blindhamster]

 

My bad, in my head I had the spartan as 20 capacity. Gosh 25 is silly for its size... 5 less than a thunderhawk... really...

Its more so the thunderhawk rules are super old a mastodon is at 40. Maybe it should be a bit bigger but the resin cost goes up a ton with size.

Thunderhawk rules aren't old. The model is but the rules themselves have changed dramatically through editions.

 

Spartan should have had a capacity of 20 - enough for full tactical blob or 10 man terminator unit.

 

 

Anyway, back on topic.

 

 

How are people finding the rules now they've hopefully had a chance to give them a test drive?

 

Here's hoping you get an FAQ to clear up how the grey slayers interact with various rites of war etc.

 

Although to be fair, some other legions can't use some of the rites of war too (blood angels are restricted from some due to the 'must have less vehicles than Legiones Astartes units' for example).

 

 

I'd like to see warriors mettle not confer. But instead be an upgrade option for wolf characters... or perhaps just be something all wolf characters have.

 

Grey slayers are a cool unit but I can see why in larger games they become a bit redundant. Especially when most people end up running pride lists with vets anyway.

 

Russ is an absolute monster... would love to see some numbers for how he stacks up to each of the other existing primarchs.

[TheWolfLord]

^ Somehow the price doesn't go up a ton with size in China.

I would love to see FW relocating their factories to China. Would substantially lower the cost and thus negate the sales of pirated miniatures...

I have always wondered how they shove so much marines into a tin can and still count it as assault vehicle. 25 marines in a Spartan is pretty much impossible unless they are on top of each other and bare naked and not each of the legion is Emperor's Children :)

The savings recasters can make are mainly because they invest no money in design, testing, painters and marketing.

 

I think many people were shocked when they found out how many hours the sculpter worked on 40k Magnus (500 hours), I could easily believe that most FW resin models take a similar length of time.

 

Start adding on every other other cost and you realise why the prices are so high.

 

I understand the prices for chinacast can be tempting but if I can't have the real thing I either save or accept I can't afford it.

[Runefyre]

Russ is an absolute monster... would love to see some numbers for how he stacks up to each of the other existing primarchs.

 

Someone on /tg did a through mathammer for him, and the short answer is he beats everyone. Except Magnus (when he specifically has precognition, warp speed, endurance, iron arm, without those powers Magnus is subpar). Horus has the next best chance if he can cripple Russ. Otherwise hitting on 6s is brutal, and then Russ basically has instant death on his sword, that ignores instant death.

Edited February 16, 2017 by Runefyre