[HH1.0] 30k Space Wolves tactics

[Ranwulf]

You could even add a forge lord with rad grenades and boarding shield (defensive grenades) to a grey slayer squad. With the bloodied claw rite of war they would wound on 2+ on the charge and the great frost blade wielding huscarl would insta death t4 multi wound models. Hvarl would do too. Points add up pretty quickly thought.

 

I'm thinking about something like this:

 

-Hvarl

-Speaker of the dead with great frost blade, aether armour

-Forge lord with rad grenades, boarding shield, power fist

-20x grey slayers 8x shield, 6x power axe, 2x power fist

Huscarl with AA, great frost blade

-Spartan with flare shield, armoured ceramite, dozer blade

It costs 1204pts but the sight of it would be glorious !

Pricy. Now we gotta see how good of a Deathstar that can be. Since the Varagyr are too expensive to be used, I find Grey Slayers and their options could be the way to make some strong units. 

 

Ran

[Jarkaira]

 

 

Is the 5+ Inv. save really that useful? Is a 5++ Inv. Save and Feel No Pain comparable to a 4++ Inv save? Because Speaker of the Dead are a main stay in my army now.

 

Ran

I feel the 5++ and FNP 5+ is more useful than a 4+. It's basically like a re-rollable invul at that point.

 

But yeah SotD are basically must have. Preferred Enemy AND FNP?

Mark me down as scared and aroused.

I love this post-truth era in which feeling to be right is enough. It is really easy to grab a calculator and check wheter it is better or not. And yes 5++/5+++ is better than 4++ as it is 55.56% vs 50%.

[Runefyre]

 

 

Is the 5+ Inv. save really that useful? Is a 5++ Inv. Save and Feel No Pain comparable to a 4++ Inv save? Because Speaker of the Dead are a main stay in my army now.

 

Ran

I feel the 5++ and FNP 5+ is more useful than a 4+. It's basically like a re-rollable invul at that point.

 

But yeah SotD are basically must have. Preferred Enemy AND FNP?

Mark me down as scared and aroused.

I love this post-truth era in which feeling to be right is enough. It is really easy to grab a calculator and check wheter it is better or not. And yes 5++/5+++ is better than 4++ as it is 55.56% vs 50%.

 

Um...this is the internet discussing a fictional game so I guess maybe don't take it so seriously?

 

Anyway, I got my first game of 2017 in last night! Played against my bro's Word Bearers.

 

I brought the exact list I posted on the previous page.

 

Don't really want to write down a full report, so I'll give a unit by unit performance analysis.

 

My brother's list was basically assault marines, veterans, plague-bearers and Erebus+herald of tzeentch (for summoning)

 

We played Blood Feud mission with Ambush deployment. I won the roll-off and chose to be the attacker (It's what the Wolves do best )

 

And I will note right away that I won in a sweeping victory, nothing of his army remained at the bottom of T5!

 

Geigor: Definitely a cheap beatstick on the battlefield as well as on paper. Kept my veterans from being mauled by dark channeled assault marines and instead turned the combat around and swept them off the field. The +1 combat resolution from bloodied claw also helped here.

 

Grey Slayers: One unit never saw combat until the end of the game (just killing afew plaguebearers), but the second squad peformed very well under the circumstances. They managed to win combat two turns in a row and finally wipe a 10 man assault squad (with zealot from dark channeling), did I mention they were enfeebled and were the ones who received the charge? Having those cheap power weapons are a huge boon and GFB's are perfect for mincing AA sergeants. I'm very impressed by GS's ability to outperform pretty much everyone else's troops choices and I think they could hang in a medium level combat if they had character support.

 

Veterans: The lauded cheap infantry unit. Didn't perform so great and would have died had it not been for Geigor. Only one managed to survive the battle anyway. My rolls with the veterans were as hot as ice water.

 

Javelins: Did what you would expect them to do. Flub their rolls against rhinos, immobilise themselves on terrain, and just all around not do very much. Basically they just killed a couple marines and some plaguebearers. Don't even think they made their points back lmao.

 

Contemptor Cortus: Left on the empty side of the battlefield (I split my force in two, not the wisest decision but I wanted to be fluffy with my ambush) and was stuck slogging the whole game alongside a unit of Grey Slayers. The autocannon did a rhino in and chipped a couple marines.

 

My final thoughts are that our base rules are quite good. The +1WS on the charge is immensely helpful against other astartes, even forcing centurions to hit GS's on 4's. No night fighting save for your opponent is also a nice touch and helped me out. And Grey Slayers are great if you know how to use them. It's all about target priority.

 

I wished I would have run Pale Hunters though. My furious charge was negated by all the defensive grenades (plaguebearers) and I would have loved to rinse and repeat with the +1WS and A.

[+Grimdark Prince Adam+]

 

You could even add a forge lord with rad grenades and boarding shield (defensive grenades) to a grey slayer squad. With the bloodied claw rite of war they would wound on 2+ on the charge and the great frost blade wielding huscarl would insta death t4 multi wound models. Hvarl would do too. Points add up pretty quickly thought.

 

I'm thinking about something like this:

 

-Hvarl

-Speaker of the dead with great frost blade, aether armour

-Forge lord with rad grenades, boarding shield, power fist

-20x grey slayers 8x shield, 6x power axe, 2x power fist

Huscarl with AA, great frost blade

-Spartan with flare shield, armoured ceramite, dozer blade

It costs 1204pts but the sight of it would be glorious !

 

So I was wondering - to cut down on points compared to the above example, you could attach a stock forgelord with rad grenades and boarding shield, and an apotecary from the apothecarion detachment. -1T for the enemy, defensive grenades+counterattack as deterrent to being charged, 5+ FNP, combined with furious charge from the RoW. GFB and power axes instakill multiwound enemies on the charge, aside from that wound on 2+ at AP2. The 5+ FNP makes the unit more resilient to foot slogging, so you can invest in more bodies instead of 300+ points on the Spartan. Thoughts?

[Runefyre]

You would lose out on preferred enemy. Not having the re-rolls leaves you running the risk of your uber-expensive deathstar flopping.

Edited February 20, 2017 by Runefyre

[Ranwulf]

 

 

 

Is the 5+ Inv. save really that useful? Is a 5++ Inv. Save and Feel No Pain comparable to a 4++ Inv save? Because Speaker of the Dead are a main stay in my army now.

 

Ran

I feel the 5++ and FNP 5+ is more useful than a 4+. It's basically like a re-rollable invul at that point.

 

But yeah SotD are basically must have. Preferred Enemy AND FNP?

Mark me down as scared and aroused.

I love this post-truth era in which feeling to be right is enough. It is really easy to grab a calculator and check wheter it is better or not. And yes 5++/5+++ is better than 4++ as it is 55.56% vs 50%.

 

Um...this is the internet discussing a fictional game so I guess maybe don't take it so seriously?

 

Anyway, I got my first game of 2017 in last night! Played against my bro's Word Bearers.

 

I brought the exact list I posted on the previous page.

 

Don't really want to write down a full report, so I'll give a unit by unit performance analysis.

 

My brother's list was basically assault marines, veterans, plague-bearers and Erebus+herald of tzeentch (for summoning)

 

We played Blood Feud mission with Ambush deployment. I won the roll-off and chose to be the attacker (It's what the Wolves do best )

 

And I will note right away that I won in a sweeping victory, nothing of his army remained at the bottom of T5!

 

Geigor: Definitely a cheap beatstick on the battlefield as well as on paper. Kept my veterans from being mauled by dark channeled assault marines and instead turned the combat around and swept them off the field. The +1 combat resolution from bloodied claw also helped here.

 

Grey Slayers: One unit never saw combat until the end of the game (just killing afew plaguebearers), but the second squad peformed very well under the circumstances. They managed to win combat two turns in a row and finally wipe a 10 man assault squad (with zealot from dark channeling), did I mention they were enfeebled and were the ones who received the charge? Having those cheap power weapons are a huge boon and GFB's are perfect for mincing AA sergeants. I'm very impressed by GS's ability to outperform pretty much everyone else's troops choices and I think they could hang in a medium level combat if they had character support.

 

Veterans: The lauded cheap infantry unit. Didn't perform so great and would have died had it not been for Geigor. Only one managed to survive the battle anyway. My rolls with the veterans were as hot as ice water.

 

Javelins: Did what you would expect them to do. Flub their rolls against rhinos, immobilise themselves on terrain, and just all around not do very much. Basically they just killed a couple marines and some plaguebearers. Don't even think they made their points back lmao.

 

Contemptor Cortus: Left on the empty side of the battlefield (I split my force in two, not the wisest decision but I wanted to be fluffy with my ambush) and was stuck slogging the whole game alongside a unit of Grey Slayers. The autocannon did a rhino in and chipped a couple marines.

 

My final thoughts are that our base rules are quite good. The +1WS on the charge is immensely helpful against other astartes, even forcing centurions to hit GS's on 4's. No night fighting save for your opponent is also a nice touch and helped me out. And Grey Slayers are great if you know how to use them. It's all about target priority.

 

I wished I would have run Pale Hunters though. My furious charge was negated by all the defensive grenades (plaguebearers) and I would have loved to rinse and repeat with the +1WS and A.

 

I fought against Death Guard, and my friends discussed that recharging had the disavantage of triggering Rad Granades once again. I think the rinse and repeat of the +1WS and A only would work if someone stayed in CC with the Plagebearers, otherwise Defensive Granades would trigger again. Also, good to know Geigor is strong, he seems a good character to play with.

 

 

You would lose out on preferred enemy. Not having the re-rolls leaves you running the risk of your uber-expensive deathstar flopping.

And without Fearless you could risk Sweeping Advance.

 

 

 

 

Is the 5+ Inv. save really that useful? Is a 5++ Inv. Save and Feel No Pain comparable to a 4++ Inv save? Because Speaker of the Dead are a main stay in my army now.

 

Ran

I feel the 5++ and FNP 5+ is more useful than a 4+. It's basically like a re-rollable invul at that point.

 

But yeah SotD are basically must have. Preferred Enemy AND FNP?

Mark me down as scared and aroused.

I love this post-truth era in which feeling to be right is enough. It is really easy to grab a calculator and check wheter it is better or not. And yes 5++/5+++ is better than 4++ as it is 55.56% vs 50%.

 

This is how you open conversation about topics. You can check mathhammer sites for even better information and tactica for this, but allowing people to respond gives more space for people to comment about usefulness. No need for the condescension, specially as Runefyre said, in a tabletopgame for fun.

 

 

Ran

Edited February 20, 2017 by Ranwulf

[Runefyre]

One of my biggest wishes from the previous battle is that Grey Slayer could charge out of rhinos. That would be so useful. But that won't happen soon I feel, so maybe raider spam is something to look into?

 

Here's a 2500 point Armoured Spearhead list I've come up with.

 

Red-blade

 

Command squad (power axes, phobos DT)

 

Speaker of the Dead

 

(2x) Grey Slayer squads (2x power weapons, AA, GFB huscarl, phobos DT)

 

Varagyr squad (5x frost claws, 5x power fists, phobos DT)

 

Legion Medusa

 

Typhon

 

 

 

That's 4 land raiders plus a typhon's worth of AV14 to deal with, and everything is filled with melee units suited to a variety of situations.

[Runefyre]

I fought against Death Guard, and my friends discussed that recharging had the disavantage of triggering Rad Granades once again. I think the rinse and repeat of the +1WS and A only would work if someone stayed in CC with the Plagebearers, otherwise Defensive Granades would trigger again. Also, good to know Geigor is strong, he seems a good character to play with.

Fortunately, I rarely play against anyone who would be equip Rad grenades (there aren't any DG players in my area, and only one mechanicum). But being able to recharge my brother's WS5 vets would have been very useful for my Slayers. But it's certainly something to keep in mind.

[Purge the Daemon]

So what's the best way to run The Lord of Winter and Ruin. In terms of bodyguard and movement up the board.

[Runefyre]

So what's the best way to run The Lord of Winter and Ruin. In terms of bodyguard and movement up the board.

My listhammering has generally drawn me towards varagyr in a flare shielded spartan with a Speaker and his Wolfkin. But I could totally see that working in a kharybdis as well. then taking additional terminators (generic or Varagyr) in phobos to saturate the field with heavy tanks, and support these with javelins, primaris lightnings and a sicaran venator.

 

Basically if you're taking Russ you're commiting to a very aggressive close combat playstyle in order to take advantage of his combat prowess. So you'll want to give him a retinue that can hang with any other deathstar's heavy hitters (and varagyr with powerfist/frostclaws can do that very well).

[Ranwulf]

I sent him on foot outflanking. Acute senses make it better for this, though I do think that the spartan is a good option, cause my Grey Slayers died to so many DG flamers.

 

Ran

[Runefyre]

Here's yet another list brainstorm (I really love doing these lmao)

 

It has more of a 13th company theme to it.

 

2500 points Bloodied Claw

 

Geigor

 

Command squad (AA, power axes, goes in phobos)

 

Speaker

 

Speaker

 

(2x) Grey Slayer squads (2x power weapons, AA, GFW Huscarl, goes in phobos)

 

(2x) Deathswon squads (9x dudes, rad grenades, phobos DT)

 

(3x) land Raider Phobos

 

That's 5(!) land raiders for the opponent to deal with, and plenty of melee potential. And at 2500 points you don't have to worry about Warhound titans.

[Coptimas]

So I want a list that I run Pale Hunter with. I imagine a bombardment coming in on turn one and giving the traitors something to think about. The idea is to try deploy second, Infiltrate with Recon out of sight, park the Achilles out of sight too after having seen enemy’s deployment, but not too far from the front of deployment with Master of Signals inside. Give opponent first turn.

 

In my first turn barrage the hell out of enemy with Phosphex from Achilles and Master of Signals barrage still staying out of site using Nuncio on recon squad. Second turn my reserves start coming in hopefully on mass. Outflank with both GS's, one with Russ attached, the other with Siege Breaker and Red Blade, outflank LR Phobos with Deathsworn and SotD. Deep strike Lightning. Obviously push up with Achilles who is BS 5 due to Master of Signals continuing barrage and Volkite. Keep pounding everything that is either armor or infantry etc with Achilles, lightning for tougher nuts, Phobos to flatout towards nearest big threat. Run GS’s. Recon to head towards an easy objective.

 

Use multi squad charges to really hurt deathstars, or split to charge objects. I have tried to equip each unit to the max to deal with all comers as with this Row and our units it seems the only real way to go.

 

HQ

Red Blade

Wolf Priest SotD - MB's, Aether Rune Armour, GFB

DS - 9 with Rad and GFB LR Phobos DT

Master of Signals  

Siege Breaker Phosphex

 

Troops

GS - 2 x 15, Huscarl AA, GFB, MB's. Vexilla, 2 Combis, 1 Fist, 5 PW's and 6 CS.

Recon - x5  Serg AA, Fist, Melta.  Camo, CC, Nuncio

 

Fast Attack

Lightning - Krak x2, Augs, Servitor

 

Heavy Support

Achilles Alpha

 

LOW

Russ

 

My main concern is surviving turn one, but by watching deployment as deploying second hopefully, having infiltrators out, 50% chance night fight, and some good barrage I’m hoping that will be enough. I still have 142 pts and I’m wondering what will be survivable and perhaps fast enough to help with those multiple charges in turn three?

Edited February 20, 2017 by Coptimas

[Jarkaira]

^ So you are having only recon, second GS and Achilles Alpha along with DS and their Phobos in the field at first turn? What was the list size?

 

Are you sure you can handle for example a Iron Warriors gunline especially if going on second?

[Coptimas]

No I'm not sure. An it only the Alpha, and the recon squad, everything else is reserves, deep striking or out flank. I have done this twice before and it worked out beautifully, slightly different lists but the essence is, your opponent very rarely has anything to shoot at. They dont expect you to only have two or three units on. You can usually position that even after movement they cant get a shot. However I am concerned re pod lists? hence my wanting another resilient unit on the board. 

 

I'm thinking assault bikes, cortus dred or jet bikes. Simply for resilience and speed.

 

3000pts list

Edited February 20, 2017 by Coptimas

[Jarkaira]

Oh yes and those pods too. Barrage or pod lists will just be scary for that small amount of units in field at first turn as you can't hide from them but I don't know how often you see either of those in your meta.

 

More "normal" lists are different case of course and should work as in a perfect case you'll get most of your forces to where they should be on turn two and can be in melee at turn three while you still keep objectives on your own deployment zone.

[Coptimas]

Meta wise it's usually Salamanders, Emperors Children, Iron Warriors allied to Mechanicum, Imperial Fists and now Thousand Sons and Blood Angles. Not huge amounts of barrage or pods, but all use strong lists but we try stay away from spam.

 

Also barrage lists are a little less of a threat as they cant reliably infiltrate due to our legion rules.

Edited February 20, 2017 by Coptimas

[gizur]

Why is everyone building the Varangyr with Fist and Claw? When will someone ever use the Claw instead of the Fists?

No mocking I only try to understand.

[TheWolfLord]

Why is everyone building the Varangyr with Fist and Claw? When will someone ever use the Claw instead of the Fists?

No mocking I only try to understand.

If you're in combat against 3+ saves you'll want to swing with the claw as you'll wound on a 3+ with shred and still ignore their armour.

 

If you swing at I1 with Fists there's a chance some of your models will be killed before they can even swing.

 

You might lose models even if you use the claw but at least they can attack before being removed.

 

Also if they are any ap2 unwieldy weapons in the unit you'll have a chance to kill them before they can do any damage.

Edited February 21, 2017 by TheWolfLord

[SkimaskMohawk]

Extra attack

[TheWolfLord]

Extra attack

The extra attacks another reason but the claw/fist combo just gives the ultimate flexibility in assault.

[gizur]

Thx, the 3+ case was not in my mind. Thanks for the enlightenment.

[SW1]

So from sifting through all the tactica, bolters just don't get a look in with the GS?

 

Lol ... I was planning on doing 2x 20 with bolters but now reconsidering. Maybe I'll just do a single squad with bolters for the looks?

[Ranwulf]

So from sifting through all the tactica, bolters just don't get a look in with the GS?

 

Lol ... I was planning on doing 2x 20 with bolters but now reconsidering. Maybe I'll just do a single squad with bolters for the looks?

I personally would prefer a 10 man squad inside of a Rhino, because they don't benefit from a lot of support, it's better they be more flexible in what to do. If they want to shoot, they do, if they want to charge they also can do because they benefit from Warrior's Mettle. I'm going to test Big Squads with HQs (Priests and the like) with Combat Shields and see how they fare.

 

Ran

[Purge the Daemon]

Why is everyone building the Varangyr with Fist and Claw? When will someone ever use the Claw instead of the Fists?

No mocking I only try to understand.

Fist + claw grants another attack due to both specialist weapons and vs 3+ armour infantry going good at initiative with s5 shred claws isn't actually bad.