[HH1.0] 30k Space Wolves tactics

[Jarkaira]

^^ They don't have Drop Pods anymore as they used up all of them at Prospero. Also they did some meade out of some Magoses coolant fluid and they get pissed off so they won't be getting any extra Drop Pods.

[helterskelter]

 

 

Fluffy would have been putting wulfen in the mix.

Ok, could you just stop. You're draining the fun out of Inferno for me. No disrespect, but it's getting kind of annoying, especially when you guys basically kicked DA, BA, and WS5 out of their spot on the rules line.

And pretty much voided 50% of the benefit of terror assault.

[Baluc]

 

Fluffy would have been putting wulfen in the mix.

Ok, could you just stop. You're draining the fun out of Inferno for me. No disrespect, but it's getting kind of annoying, especially when you guys basically kicked DA, BA, and WS5 out of their spot on the rules line.

 

 

I think a little perspective is required here. Wolves will be charging DA not the other way around in which case DA will still be Ws5. Wolves have a lot of structural weaknesses. But lets be honest Wolves are a WE level assault army, DA and BA at this point are not. So don't assault them when playing head to head.

 

​Assault as an army tactic is generally a pretty piss poor idea with the 40k ruleset. Once I figure out how to get some shooting out of my fast attack slots I'm sure the discussion will progress in a more positive manner. But, in the mean time you are going to have to accept that today Wolves fans have a lot in common with Arsenal fans.

[rendingon1+]

 

 

 

Fluffy would have been putting wulfen in the mix.

Ok, could you just stop. You're draining the fun out of Inferno for me. No disrespect, but it's getting kind of annoying, especially when you guys basically kicked DA, BA, and WS5 out of their spot on the rules line.

I think a little perspective is required here. Wolves will be charging DA not the other way around in which case DA will still be Ws5. Wolves have a lot of structural weaknesses. But lets be honest Wolves are a WE level assault army, DA and BA at this point are not. So don't assault them when playing head to head.

 

​Assault as an army tactic is generally a pretty piss poor idea with the 40k ruleset. Once I figure out how to get some shooting out of my fast attack slots I'm sure the discussion will progress in a more positive manner. But, in the mean time you are going to have to accept that today Wolves fans have a lot in common with Arsenal fans.

According to the scans wolves get +1 ws when charging not when being charged.

[Fenbain]

Potentially a stupid question, but it says that Hvarl Red-Blade has a Heavy Bolter. Does this seem odd to anyone else and thinks it might be a typo, intended to read combi-bolter? Starting on my conversion for him and it's a little puzzling.

[helterskelter]

It says heavy bolter

[Baluc]

 

 

 

Fluffy would have been putting wulfen in the mix.

Ok, could you just stop. You're draining the fun out of Inferno for me. No disrespect, but it's getting kind of annoying, especially when you guys basically kicked DA, BA, and WS5 out of their spot on the rules line.

I think a little perspective is required here. Wolves will be charging DA not the other way around in which case DA will still be Ws5. Wolves have a lot of structural weaknesses. But lets be honest Wolves are a WE level assault army, DA and BA at this point are not. So don't assault them when playing head to head.

 

​Assault as an army tactic is generally a pretty piss poor idea with the 40k ruleset. Once I figure out how to get some shooting out of my fast attack slots I'm sure the discussion will progress in a more positive manner. But, in the mean time you are going to have to accept that today Wolves fans have a lot in common with Arsenal fans.

According to the scans wolves get +1 ws when charging not when being charged.

 

Def misread that...

 

DDP Levi's are giving me serious concerns.

[Charlo]

As a Death Guard player, I am super jealous of your great frost blades (same as our scythes but master crafted and more accessible) and your deathsworn destoyer thingies. Having terminators with all heavy weapons makes me jelly too. Plus you get all the combat rules on top. Other than shred flamers, I dont think we have much you dont do better now.

Good point. But Wardens are still better and DG get entire scythe units.

 

Overall I think the wolves have turned out stellar.

[Unknown Legionnaire]

There's no question as I see.

It's a limitation of "Legiones Astartes (Space Wolves)" rule. It's not tied in any way with RoW.

So "Space Wolves" with Grey Slayers, or "Any other legion" without them.

 

When I decide to pick a RoW I will have two contradictory rules though, which both require me to take a different unit as a comp troops choice.

The LA(SW) rules AND the rules from the RoW. Which one takes precedence ?

 

Don't get me wrong, not arguing here, just seeking clarity and trying to figure out what units would be compulsory to tag along Russ and his hounds.

[Charlo]

Dewthsworn are insane what. They are balls to the wall crazy.

[Baluc]

Dewthsworn are insane what. They are balls to the wall crazy.

This unit is starting to make me think that red-blade, Pale Hunter and massed infantry are going to be go to build to start.

[mercbat]

Don't get me wrong, not arguing here, just seeking clarity and trying to figure out what units would be compulsory to tag along Russ and his hounds.

Sorry if my tone seemed "mentorish", didn't mean that.

I think it needs clarification, but as for me it looks like the only way to avoid Grey Slayers as a Troops choice - take Russ and make him Warlord.

Then you'll be able to take Varagyr and Vet.tac.squads as Troops.

 

And it cuts off SpaceWolves access to "Angel's Wrath" and "Pride of the Legion" RoWs.

May be I'm wrong and would gladly accept another points of view.

[Baluc]

I'm pretty sure it means wolves can't play RoW that have change compulsory troops.

 

AB, AW, Pride, etc.

[Ranwulf]

I think the second RoW is the best one. With it, you can not only get a Drop Pod Kharybidis for all your Grey Slayer needs, but also Land Raiders, making massed infantry transport expensive, but very possible. Not only that, your troops get Furious Assault (which I think adds +1 S and I), and the Howl of the Death Wolf, that allowing to reroll running and charging. I find it better than the first RoW, since it's really hard to bring your wolves to bear on the enemy unless you make them small, or take flyers. Considering how much stuff is around to kill our infantry, I think it's better we have som armored protection.

 

Ran

[Robzilla]

See, I'm taking this as the core legion list only has one compulsory troop: grey slayers.

 

However anything that changes the legion list also changes this allowance (for example, taking russ, picking different rites of war, etc).

 

Seems to be the most suitable course of action - stops army creation being neutered. Furthermore, it's not like we do it in any other capacity -

 

We don't pick a rite of war (PotL for example) which gives us veterans for troops, and then go "oh wait, the crusade army list says these are elites. Standard tactical squads for my troops it is".

 

Just my opinion anyway...

[Unknown Legionnaire]

I'm pretty sure it means wolves can't play RoW that have change compulsory troops.

 

 

When we go down that route, then SW could utilise ... let me think ... 

 

Orbital Assault

Armoured Spearhead

Outcast Sons 

Sky Hunter Phalanx (with difficulties)

ZMAF

The Pale Hunters

The Bloodies Claws

 

And none of the others ? Seems very, very restrictive. 

 

Not sure if that's intentional, or if RoW would supersede the LA limitation.

See, I'm taking this as the core legion list only has one compulsory troop: grey slayers.

 

However anything that changes the legion list also changes this allowance (for example, taking russ, picking different rites of war, etc).

 

Seems to be the most suitable course of action - stops army creation being neutered. Furthermore, it's not like we do it in any other capacity -

 

We don't pick a rite of war (PotL for example) which gives us veterans for troops, and then go "oh wait, the crusade army list says these are elites. Standard tactical squads for my troops it is".

 

 

 

 

That's how I'd read it as well.

[Baluc]

In Ab for example predator sqds would be troops and then gain the "support squad" rule. Which would prevent you from fulfilling a basic requirment of AB.

 

If you check the fluff section it mentions anything not a SW in (or essentially LA:space wolves) eventually migrated to the iron priests under Russ direct control over time as most wolves didn't have the inclination to opperate in that way. So its not that far fetched a interpretation.

[RedwaKe]

That's some pretty neat rules we got there !

 

Grey Slayers are awesome. better, more close combat oriented tactical marines with cheap access to power weapons; what's not to like ?

Deathsworns are cool too but I think they're a bit expensive for what they do but they could be really nasty with rad grenades, stasis bomb (which are also defensive grenades) and counter attack. Throw a Speaker of the dead in there for prefered ennemy and 5+ fnp and you get a really nasty unit.

Varagyr are a huge letdown for me. They're definately not bad but not great either and there is just nothing special about them. 

 

Rite of Wars are cool, especially the Bloodied Claw.

 

Our bonuses makes us good in melee but unfortunately not as good as the WE and I feel like we are missing some real heavy hitters like.. hmm let me think.. WULFENS..

 

Russ is a beast thought.

[Baluc]

Bloodied claw has less "limitations" but charging drop pods and contemptors all day is too big of a downside for FC, and howl. The +1 combat res is not even worth mentioning, they have enough combat rules to not need that.

I think we will see 3 main list types evolve.

 

Russ drop assault

 

Armoured spearhead

 

Infantry pale hunter with allies like SA

[Baluc]

So getting around 1 hs slot for anti tank weapns

 

Talons of (cortus) contemptors

 

Allied Leman Russ tanks

 

Javs

 

Lightning

 

Grav speeders

 

I think grabflux, phospex levi is compulsory or quad mortars will cripple us.

[depthcharge12]

Ok here's a deadly list I've drawn up:

 

Second Wolf rite of war (don't know name but know rules)

 

2000 points or so

 

HQ

Hvarl Red Blade

 

Wolf Priest with primus medicae duties

 

 

Elites

Deathsworn Pack (9 dudes - WP goes with them)

+rad grenades and axes

+Dreadclaw

 

 

Troops

20 Grey Slayers

+2 axes, 1 PF, Combat shield on rest

 

20 Grey Slayers

+2 axes, 1 PF, Combat shield on rest

 

Plasma support squad

+Rhino (since they are infantry and gain scout but have a DT, it gains scout too :evil:)

 

 

Heavy Support

Deredeo with autocannons or Arachnus

+Automantic shield thing

 

Sicaran

+lascannons

 

Sicaran Venator

 

 

So now you have 3 infantry units to scout up with Red Blade's rule, including scouting up 12" with the plasma squad in a rhino, moving 6", deploying 6", and then double tapping into a unit :devil:

 

Gray Slayers run up with the Deredeo now giving the entire squad a 5++ due to the shields lol. Red Blade goes with one of them unless you want to put him with the Deathsworn.

 

Deathsworn and wolf medic drop down turn one, and assault turn two into a nasty unit, likely surviving due to the 5+ FNP.

 

Sicarans are just there for anti tank gravy.

 

Otherwise, swap out the plasma dudes for melta dudes to obliterate a Spartan T1 (better idea). And swap the Sicarans for a melta Lance Levi or some Contemptor support.

[Exark]

A few things I wanted to point out,

 

1)As per current RAW, we can't actually take uniques as Compulse HQs "Detachments with the LA SW must fulfill their compulse HQ choice with either a Praetor or Centurion (representing a Wolf Lord or Claw Leader). Other HQ choices or Consul types may not be selected as compulsory HQ choices." 

 

So, most likely, a HORRIFIC design oversight, because that by RAW means we can't use either of our Unique HQs or even Russ for that matter without taking a Praetor or Centurion. Let alone, we can't even use the Delegatus Consul for this (which doesn't make much sense). Thoughts brethren?

 

And 2)There's been a lot of discussion so far it seems on the wording for Grey Slayers being our compulsory troops slot regardless of RoW. Given the wording of Russ' own slot swap for Varagyr Terms and Veterans, I'd be inclined to argue that its intended to limit our ability to take certain RoWs, though that doesn't make much sense to me, as why couldn't we take PoTL to represent a Jarl's household? I'm guessing it was a design oversight, given that other similar rules, like Rigid Tactics and By Wing and Talon, EXPLICITLY state they effect the ability of said legions to run certain RoW. Ours is much more vague.

[depthcharge12]

Ok here's a deadly list I've drawn up:

 

Second Wolf rite of war (don't know name but know rules)

 

2000 points or so

 

HQ

Hvarl Red Blade

 

Wolf Priest with primus medicae duties

 

 

Elites

Deathsworn Pack (9 dudes - WP goes with them)

+rad grenades and axes

+Dreadclaw

 

 

Troops

20 Grey Slayers

+2 axes, 1 PF, Combat shield on rest

 

20 Grey Slayers

+2 axes, 1 PF, Combat shield on rest

 

Plasma support squad

+Rhino (since they are infantry and gain scout but have a DT, it gains scout too :evil:)

 

 

Heavy Support

Deredeo with autocannons or Arachnus

+Automantic shield thing

 

Sicaran

+lascannons

 

Sicaran Venator

 

 

So now you have 3 infantry units to scout up with Red Blade's rule, including scouting up 12" with the plasma squad in a rhino, moving 6", deploying 6", and then double tapping into a unit :devil:

 

Gray Slayers run up with the Deredeo now giving the entire squad a 5++ due to the shields lol. Red Blade goes with one of them unless you want to put him with the Deathsworn.

 

Deathsworn and wolf medic drop down turn one, and assault turn two into a nasty unit, likely surviving due to the 5+ FNP.

 

Sicarans are just there for anti tank gravy.

 

Otherwise, swap out the plasma dudes for melta dudes to obliterate a Spartan T1 (better idea). And swap the Sicarans for a melta Lance Levi or some Contemptor support.

Ok so I did the points for it and got to 2000:

 

Red Blade (210)

 

Speaker for the dead (130)

+AA, great frost blade, melta bombs

 

9 Deathsworn (315)

+rad grenades, 1 great frost blade

+ Dreadclaw (115 not DT)

 

20 Gray Slayers (296)

+1 PF, 2 PAs, 17 shields

 

20 Gray Slayers (296)

+" "

 

5 support marines (210)

+ 5 melta guns, Rhino DT

 

Deredeo (235)

+Autocannons, atomantic pavaise

 

Sicaran Venator (190)

 

 

Comes out with 3 extra points lol :D

[HvitrValdyr]

Planning on building a deathsworn pack soon. I noticed in the fluff description to the side of the unit entry something about wolf skull helms. Can someone provide a fuller fluff description of them please?

[HvitrValdyr]

 

Ok here's a deadly list I've drawn up:

Second Wolf rite of war (don't know name but know rules)

2000 points or so

HQ

Hvarl Red Blade

Wolf Priest with primus medicae duties

Elites

Deathsworn Pack (9 dudes - WP goes with them)

+rad grenades and axes

+Dreadclaw

Troops

20 Grey Slayers

+2 axes, 1 PF, Combat shield on rest

20 Grey Slayers

+2 axes, 1 PF, Combat shield on rest

Plasma support squad

+Rhino (since they are infantry and gain scout but have a DT, it gains scout too :evil:)

Heavy Support

Deredeo with autocannons or Arachnus

+Automantic shield thing

Sicaran

+lascannons

Sicaran Venator

So now you have 3 infantry units to scout up with Red Blade's rule, including scouting up 12" with the plasma squad in a rhino, moving 6", deploying 6", and then double tapping into a unit :devil:

Gray Slayers run up with the Deredeo now giving the entire squad a 5++ due to the shields lol. Red Blade goes with one of them unless you want to put him with the Deathsworn.

Deathsworn and wolf medic drop down turn one, and assault turn two into a nasty unit, likely surviving due to the 5+ FNP.

Sicarans are just there for anti tank gravy.

Otherwise, swap out the plasma dudes for melta dudes to obliterate a Spartan T1 (better idea). And swap the Sicarans for a melta Lance Levi or some Contemptor support.

Ok so I did the points for it and got to 2000:

Red Blade (210)

Speaker for the dead (130)

+AA, great frost blade, melta bombs

9 Deathsworn (315)

+rad grenades, 1 great frost blade

+ Dreadclaw (115 not DT)

20 Gray Slayers (296)

+1 PF, 2 PAs, 17 shields

20 Gray Slayers (296)

+" "

5 support marines (210)

+ 5 melta guns, Rhino DT

Deredeo (235)

+Autocannons, atomantic pavaise

Sicaran Venator (190)

Comes out with 3 extra points lol :D

Question on this. Since we have to take an HQ for every 1,000 points are those both considered compulsory choices? In which case we can't use a priest as the second. Or are compulsory HQs only based on the force organization/detachment requirements?