Team Breacher

[Doctor Perils]

Night Lords unit with Axe Rakes and Sickles, upgrade to Scythes, with the ability to make a Vector Strike, using the stats of a melee weapon they are equipped with?

 

Oooh sweet  , but that's probably a conversation for another thread...

[Hesh Kadesh]

Oh yeah, give them Shields... Moving swiftly on...

[Captain Idaho]

I'd still think they were special if they got the option for a power sickle and upgrade weapons of phosporex bombs. Sure throwing multiple in a turn is nuts, but that's what makes them special and otherwise rather ordinary.

[Charlo]

I'd still think they were special if they got the option for a power sickle and upgrade weapons of phosporex bombs. Sure throwing multiple in a turn is nuts, but that's what makes them special and otherwise rather ordinary.

Agreed. It makes sense considering the DG too. Sure you'd absolutely grind a unit down, but you pay a lot of points to do it, and just become normal breachers after.

 

Something is forming in my mind... An idea of a Virus based Breaching charge, Fleshbane,S2 ap4, rending. Doesn't get Fleshbane against hardened armour to protect the own breachers (even if we do get Fleshbane defence rerolls...).

[Hesh Kadesh]

Possibly a thing for the Molech expansion with Grulgor. Possibly a before Flesh eater virus contagion and after version, allowing models with Breaching Charges to replace them with Phosphex Bombs for free. I know its not strictly the same effect or theme, but tgey have the same role.

[Anvilarium]

Presenting Breacher Squad Stanak.

Iron Hands Clan Company Burrakis

Order Triarii

9th Century Breachers, 1st Phalanx.

 

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n64/UrzaTRi/SQUAD_STANAK_zps7a6f7638.png

 

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n64/UrzaTRi/stanak_1_zpsfitltts7.png

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n64/UrzaTRi/stanak_2_zpspmzs5xxf.png

 

Oh and the Bolter in the illustration doesn't match the description. The Anvil-Pattern Boltgun should look like this:

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n64/UrzaTRi/ANVIL_BOLTER_02_zpsc10bf9c4.png

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

That's easy enough to fix.

 

http://i.imgur.com/kCVT9JP.png

[Captain Idaho]

 

I'd still think they were special if they got the option for a power sickle and upgrade weapons of phosporex bombs. Sure throwing multiple in a turn is nuts, but that's what makes them special and otherwise rather ordinary.

Agreed. It makes sense considering the DG too. Sure you'd absolutely grind a unit down, but you pay a lot of points to do it, and just become normal breachers after.

Something is forming in my mind... An idea of a Virus based Breaching charge, Fleshbane,S2 ap4, rending. Doesn't get Fleshbane against hardened armour to protect the own breachers (even if we do get Fleshbane defence rerolls...).

Totally dude. Same wave length I feel ;)

 

I'm not against combi-Phosphorex, just not sure I like it wholesale on a unit. I'd rather go for a Phosporex launcher as a special weapon etc.

 

Less is more kinda thing.

[Doctor Perils]

So, in that case, should there be a new special rule added to the unit?

[Tychii]

Honestly at 200 points base and 25 per. They are pretty special. It's better to create units that are behind the curve first them being them up through small tweaks.

You have a full squad for ap3 flamers at the moment. They Will ruin anything in power armour as 5man squad in rhino. They seem pretty strong to me already.

My suggestion would be to test them out and see what your group says. They might agree they need a boost, or they might think the current version is even too much.

[Forward Assist]

 

Oh and the Bolter in the illustration doesn't match the description. The Anvil-Pattern Boltgun should look like this:

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n64/UrzaTRi/ANVIL_BOLTER_02_zpsc10bf9c4.png

Like the use of the Anvil sights and drum mags. A nice touch.

[Doctor Perils]

Honestly at 200 points base and 25 per. They are pretty special. It's better to create units that are behind the curve first them being them up through small tweaks.

You have a full squad for ap3 flamers at the moment. They Will ruin anything in power armour as 5man squad in rhino. They seem pretty strong to me already.

My suggestion would be to test them out and see what your group says. They might agree they need a boost, or they might think the current version is even too much.

 

I wasn't thinking specifically of a boost, just something to make them play differently to breachers when they haven't got the flamers...

[Aeternus]

Maybe a lock shields type rule? +1 to invuln and armour, but unable to move, charge, or run for the rest of the turn? It could also have an effect on enemy charges, better overwatch or forcing a disordered charge? 

 

Edit (bonus to saves could be on the arc their shields are facing, and of course you have to have the shields in a line. No making a circle of defence...or maybe...?)

 

Edit2 just brainstormin here. That sort of rule might be more kinda IW/IF feeling.

[Doctor Perils]

Maybe a lock shields type rule? +1 to invuln and armour, but unable to move, charge, or run for the rest of the turn? It could also have an effect on enemy charges, better overwatch or forcing a disordered charge? 

 

Edit (bonus to saves could be on the arc their shields are facing, and of course you have to have the shields in a line. No making a circle of defence...or maybe...?)

 

Edit2 just brainstormin here. That sort of rule might be more kinda IW/IF feeling.

They seem like good ideas... Well actually I like them a lot :) These ideas could be used for several kinds of Breacher specialists, if the first ideas aren't used for the Cremators. I've also been thinking about something that could improve cover saves for friendly models behind the shield line.

 

The shield line could possibly be worded in a manner similar to the Deathwing Knights: each [insert special Breacher here] in contact with two others gains a certain bonus, something like that ?

[Slips]

I get the feeling that this might be an attempt to 1up IF Stone Gauntlet / Phalanx Warders since they have similar rules ideas :p

[Aeternus]

Haven't seen their rules before, but having seen them now, yeah it might be a bit too close :/

 

Back to the Cremators, maybe a resistance of some kind or a grenade type?

[Doctor Perils]

Haven't seen their rules before, but having seen them now, yeah it might be a bit too close :/

 

Back to the Cremators, maybe a resistance of some kind or a grenade type?

 

What about a certain resistance to poisoned attacks ? Fluffy and can give them a bit more survivability in some cases, but not exactly game breaking...

[Aeternus]

Fits, I'd say. What sort of thing should it be? Poison always wounds on 5/6?

I think total immunity is a bit too far, as is also making them resistant to fleshbane.

[Doctor Perils]

I've given the viral charge and the resistant to poisons some tentative rules, don't know what you think of them. I've also given them a bolter, and the combi-phosphor becomes a special weapon option, whereas the power sickle becomes a universal option for them, since a lot of people quite liked that idea.

 

Updates due to:

 

Vets gain 2 attacks, and strike at full initiative, with potentially furious charge and 2 CCW's on their POwer Weapons for 10pts

I think that 1 I3 S4 AP3 isn"t worth 15pts; after all, Ultramarines get their Swords for +5PTS (although slightly mitigated by losing access to Special weapons as the entire squad has to swap weapons). +7-10ppm I think is fair, and probably still too expensive but on the 'safe' side.

 

If the phosper lance is becoming a special weapon/one per five, maybe consider changing it to a full weapon rather than a combi? Liking the Viral charge very much though, especially the idea of it 

 

 

Death Guard Cremators (3.2)........................................................... 130 Points

 

A specialised section of the Death Guard's Destroyer Corps, the Cremators' original purpose was to help in the cleansing of Xenos Spaceships, bringing the horror of Phosphex to bear against these enemies of humanity in places usually too deadly for even Marines, with the exception of Breachers and Terminators. However, in the dark days of the Horus Heresy, they have found a new purpose, as their Phosphor Lances prove remarkably effective against Power Armour.

 

                        WS BS  S  T  W  I  A  Ld Sv

Cremator.......    4    4   4  4   1  4  1   8   3+

Ash Warden...   4    4   4  4   1  4   2   9   3+

 

Unit Composition

• 4 Death Guard Cremators
• 1 Death Guard Ash Warden

Unit Type

• Infantry
• Infantry Character (Ash Warden)

Wargear

• Power Armour
• Boarding Shield
• Bolter
• Bolt Pistol
• Frag and Krak grenades

Special Rules

• Legiones Astartes (Death Guard)
• Hardened Armour
• Resistance to Poisons

Dedicated Transport

• The Squad may take a Land Raider Phobos as Dedicated Transport

Options

• The Death Guard Cremator squad may take
  • Up to 5 Additional Cremators...................... 12 pts
• Any Cremator in the squad may take
  • Power Sickle…………………………………………… 7 pts
• For every five models in the squad, one Cremator may exchange their Bolter for one of the following:
  • Volkite Charger........................................... 5 pts
  • Flamer........................................................ 10 pts
  • Phosphor Lance.......................................... 20 pts
• One Cremator may take a Nuncio-Vox................. 10 pts
• One Cremator may take a Legion Vexilla............. 15 pts
• The Ash Warden may exchange their Bolter for one of the following:
  • Power Sickle............................................... 10 pts
  • Power Weapon........................................... 15 pts
  • Combi-Phosphor…………………………….. 15 pts
  • Power Fist.................................................. 20 pts
  • Single Lightning Claw................................. 20 pts
  • Plasma Pistol.............................................. 20 pts
  • Thunder Hammer....................................... 25 pts
• The Ash Warden may:
  • Upgrade to artificer armour........................ 10 pts
    • Note: this means he will also be subject to the Hardened Armour special rule
  • Take a single Viral Charge………………………… 10 pts

Hardened armour: see crusade army list page 32 in the legion breacher siege squad entry

 

Resistance to Poisons

True scions of the Death Guard, Cremators have spent years manipulating dangerous substances. This time has built up their resistance to all but the most virulent of toxins.

Models with Resistance to Poisons reduce the effects of the Poisoned special rule by 2 (to a minimum of 6+). The rest of the attack is treated normally.

Example: A Death Guard Cremator is hit by Phosphex Bomb which has the Special Rule Poisoned (3+). With Resistance to Poisons, the Cremator is only wounded on a roll of 5+.

Note: this rule does not apply to the fleshbane special rule.

 

Phosphor-Lance and Combi-Phosphor

Many Death Guard Cremators use a special flame weapon, the phospor lance, designed for exterminating hordes of xenos, while remaining protected behind their breacher shields. Phosphor lances project a stream of diluted phosphex, a compound still far more powerful then the promethium found in conventional flamers. However, with this increased potency comes greater risks as the phosphorus substance is extremely volatile: should the firing mechanism jam, the resulting projections of fluid would eat through a marines' armour in a flash. As a result, Phosphor lances are rarely - if ever - seen as main weapons.

 

Weapon                     range    Str   AP    Type

Bolter                             24"       4     5      Rapid Fire

Combi-Phosphor      Template    4     3       Assault 1, One use, Shred, Gets Hot, Volatile*

 

Phosphor Lance       Template    4     3      Assault 1, Shred, Gets Hot, Volatile*

 

*Volatile: Armour saves may not be claimed against Wounds caused by the Gets Hot special rule.

 

Power Sickle

The Power Sickle was added to the Death Guards' panoply of war after Istvaan III, as they had discovered during the massacre of their loyalist elements that enemy breachers or otherwise shield equipped marines could be far harder to eliminate then previously imagined.

Though by some aspects the sickle resembles the larger power scythes of the Deathshroud, its function is completely different: the hook blade is designed to easily pry shields or other guarding weapons from an enemy, opening possible lines of attack for the wielder.

When used at the drop site massacre, they showed a great deal of worth, especially against Salamanders bearing prototype Storm Shields.

 

Weapon       range    Str   AP    Type

Power Sickle     -         Us    3      Melee, Rending, Short*, Shield Mocker**

 

*Short: The wielder loses -1 to their Initiative value.

 

**Shield Mocker: Enemy models may not claim any saves of any kind that are derived from carried shields, including combat shields, boarding shields, etc.

 

 

Viral Charge

Viral Charges are meant to be placed against a vehicle's hull or a building's wall: they then latch on and drill a set of holes into the material thanks to diamantine drill tips, before pouring a virus charged gas into the opening. Death Guard Ash Wardens have long since learnt how to use them effectively in close combat as well, to devastating effect.

Use the Breacher Charge  rules, with the following profile:

Weapon              range    Str   AP    Type

Viral Charge      Special     2     4      Melee, One Use, Blast (3"), Rending, Poisoned (3+), Siege Assault

 

Siege Assault: when used against a transport or a building, each occupant receives a hit with the profile stated above. In addition, vehicles suffer the effects of Crew Shaken, but do not lose a hull point (the vehicle can still claim possible invulnerable saves against this effect).

Note: In games of Zones Mortalis, if the wielder is in base contact with a closed bulkhead door at the beginning of the assault phase, he can fix the Viral Charge on the door: in this case, place the blast (3") marker in base contact to the door on the other side of it, at the level of the wielder. The marker cannot cover any friendly models. Any model under the marker suffers a hit with the profile mentionned above. In this case, vehicles and buildings are not affected.

[Anvilarium]

That's easy enough to fix.

 

http://i.imgur.com/kCVT9JP.png

 

Thanks! I do have a corrected version myself somewhere, but it is in the Microsoft Publisher file I have been using as a Primer document for my Clan Burrakis army and I didn't have a screenshot of it to hand

[Hesh Kadesh]

Vets gain 2 attacks, and strike at full initiative, with potentially furious charge and 2 CCW's on their POwer Weapons for 10pts

 

I think that 1 I3 S4 AP3 isn"t worth 15pts; after all, Ultramarines get their Swords for +5PTS (although slightly mitigated by losing access to Special weapons as the entire squad has to swap weapons). +7-10ppm I think is fair, and probably still too expensive but on the 'safe' side.

[Doctor Perils]

Changed.

 

What about the viral charge?

[Spinsanity]

Considering UM breachers can take Powerweapons now, I hope (expect?) WorldEater breachers will at least be allowed to upgrade theirs with Chainaxes when the updated LACAL comes out... Now THAT is a unit I'd like to field

[Aeternus]

If the phosper lance is becoming a special weapon/one per five, maybe consider changing it to a full weapon rather than a combi? Liking the Viral charge very much though, especially the idea of it :D

[Doctor Perils]

I've given full phosphor lances as special weapon choices, and the combi-phosphor to the ash warden...

 

I'm starting to feel like there might be too many unique weapon options though, should we cut down do you think ?

 

EDIT: Brother Chaplain Kage had been thinking about a thread split, and this might well be a good idea to avoid taking up too much space for the greater Team Breacher.