[HH1.0] Dark Angels Tactics

[rendingon1+]

I have a question about ravenwing protocols. Should I aim for all Jetbike army (they can take acid shells, and can leave the board to outflank, can't recall how it's called) or cheaper outriders who have an option for Close combat and are...cheaper. Mono Jetbike or mixed, it's very few models on the table and I'm not sure if bikes army with speed support 'can do it'.

[Charlo]

Why not both? Both are great units and variety can only help. I'd say maybe aim for two of each unit for redundancy though.

 

Also don't forget that you can take infantry in dread claws/ a Kharybdis /a Caestus ram to supplement your bikes

[The Lord of Iron]

I still think that you should try and get every bonus you can out a right of war that is as restrictive as Iron wing. If it were something like pride of the legion that could reasonably be picked up as an after thought to most lists than I can understand not picking a list full of veterans or terminators, even though most lists contain a few of those units anyway. But if you're going to take a fair few restrictions to get a fair number of bonuses you might as well try to make the most out of everyone. Which is why I try to bring as many squadrons of vehicles as possible in an iron wings list, even if i have to dump the machine spirit on them all to help them keep up with the infantry portion of the army.

 

For raven wing why not grab a Storm eagle and throw some infantry in there. Not only is the idea of a dark angels army with some serious air support fluffy, it also helps you out in long range fire fights and against heavier armor. 

[Charlo]

Mortis Dreads with Tank Hunter. Even just a double Kheres will ensure DESTRUCTION Imo.

 

Lascannons just straight up END flyers for less points than a Deredeo - albeit less useful maybe - but sits in the magical Elites slot.

 

Only oversight I think is that Dreads count towards your "non-tank" units....

 

We need Mortis talons.

[Asterlanus]

In regards to Ravenwing Protocols we should really only be looking at jetbikes as your basic infantry, you need the 2+ saves extra survivability to help out, along with the extra firepower on the cheap in regards to acid rounds.To get the same sort of effectiveness and sruvivablity out of an outrider unit you will need to take a full sized squad and load up with twin-linked plasma guns/melta guns. 6 jetbikes with acid rounds and 2 plasma cannons is what i'd take for my two minimum compulsory troops for Raven Wing.

In regards to Dreads I went for standard contemptor's because of their ability to be able to get into combat and actually do something and hold up units to prevent them from getting into our softer tanks. We need to play the dangerous game of keeping units alive while sacrificing the least number of units possible. Because losing a single unit starts leading to more and more potential D3 VP lost. So Ironwing i'd play as a defensive tank list with counter assault dreadnoughts and rhino tacticals.

Ravenwing I can't really see a point in bringing in a troop choice in a flier. There's no real need. You already have your bike troops which is already a pricey investment. After paying your points for those we need to start investing in actual support units like Javelin's, attack fliers and other units like them.

[ShadowCore67]

IIRC you can't bring any other troops in Ravenwing? I thought the rite says jetbikes and bikes are your ONLY troop choices.

 

Anyway I have my Ravenwing set up with my IC's on jetbikes with jetbike squads while I have boltgun outriders to hold objectives and a plasma outrider squad to deliver some guaranteed ap2 fire power. All of this along with a xiphon and multi melta attack bikes for some solid anti armor.

 

Also, what do you guys think of a 10 man plasma repeater squad jumping out of a storm Eagle? You're guaranteed 20 TL plasma shots and if any of the unit survives the turn they will be releasing 3 shots per man.

Edited April 4, 2016 by ShadowCore67

[Charlo]

Also, what do you guys think of a 10 man plasma repeater squad jumping out of a storm Eagle? You're guaranteed 20 TL plasma shots and if any of the unit survives the turn they will be releasing 3 shots per man.

 

I absolutely love the concept and mental image - but hate how anything beyond the 6" kill range can't be touched. Sure you can roll up next to some poor squad fairly effectively but it's still not easy.

[ShadowCore67]

 

 

Also, what do you guys think of a 10 man plasma repeater squad jumping out of a storm Eagle? You're guaranteed 20 TL plasma shots and if any of the unit survives the turn they will be releasing 3 shots per man.

I absolutely love the concept and mental image - but hate how anything beyond the 6" kill range can't be touched. Sure you can roll up next to some poor squad fairly effectively but it's still not easy.

I trust the storm eagle will be able to deliver them where they need to be in most cases.

 

I love the idea of plasma repeaters but their stats and limited units that can use them make using them effectively hard. I'll try to test my storm eagle idea and see how well it goes.

[Charlo]

If not a Dreadclaw will yield similar results I'm sure.

[depthcharge12]

Can't weapons also not kill anything outside of their range?

 

Say perhaps 2 out of 10 terminators are the only ones within 6", they are the only ones that will eat those 20+ plasma shots? The other 8 are out of range for the salvo?

 

That just sounds incredibly stupid. Hell even an 18" salvo weapon would've been more preferable.

[The Lord of Iron]

I think that largely depends on the group you play with and how willing they are to enforce those kind of rules. Personally my group never worried too much about little thing like that, especially in the middle of the game. But we were also cool with proxies and rule of cool so it really depends.

 

I don't think you can take support squads with raven wing. I was thinking more along the lines of a few veterans with a lot of the legion equipment, swords acid rounds, stasis missiles the works.

 

Its a shame storm eagles can't take stasis missiles. It would be so cool to drop a few for an assaulting squad coming out.  

[Asterlanus]

I beleive as long as you give your sergeant a combi-bolter or something along those lines, they can kill stuff up to 24" because RAW is fun. As the largest range in the unit is 24" which is what the squad can reach out too.

[Farseer Anath'lan]

The rules for salvo state that, although you have to be within half range to fire, you can hurt up to max range, so get within 6" to unleash 12" of death.

 

Veterans in dreadclaws with Ravenwing Protocols seem alright. Rad grenades, furious charge, toss 4-5 axes on the unit and you're ID multiwound terminators, for a lower cost.

[Charlo]

The rules for salvo state that, although you have to be within half range to fire, you can hurt up to max range, so get within 6" to unleash 12" of death.

 

Veterans in dreadclaws with Ravenwing Protocols seem alright. Rad grenades, furious charge, toss 4-5 axes on the unit and you're ID multiwound terminators, for a lower cost.

 

Good to know about the Salvo Rules!

 

And yeah - Vets are basically the ultimate bad boys for the DA Legion. They get ready access to all of the legion gear and the abilities to utilise it.

 

How it should be really - it's a damn shame they didn't get the Deathwing RoW at release, like a SUPER Pride - though I imagine that is because actual Deathwing Terminators are coming.

[The Lord of Iron]

I like the fact that veterans are such a big part of the legion it just kind of irks me that its largely because of their gear and not so much any passive rules opening up new avenues of play. As it stands they already start with chain swords opening up the legion's rule and they have access to everything else in some capacity. 

 

That being said how do you guys think the dark angels should run their veterans? I was thinking either a full ten man squad with stasis missiles, acid rounds and furious charge; or a ten man squad with two plasma repeaters/guns and sniper. 

[Charlo]

Well there is multiple viable builds!

 

You have sniper vets with acid heavy bolters for bringing down tough things (sniper giving you a second chance at ap2 if you roll badly on the ap roll of the acid).

 

Aforementioned sword vets with furious charge and stasis missiles.

 

Outflanking rhino vets with plasma repeaters shooting from the top hatch.

 

Good old tank hunting melta bomb vets with a combi genade launcher and caliban blade on the sarge for if things get dicey.

 

Then in Raven Wing you get to compound this with rad grenades.

 

In Iron Wing all of the bolters get stronger and a special mention to VOLKITE SERPENTA vets who wound on a 2+ for even more deflag!

 

====

 

Here is a fun thought!

 

Your Furious Charge Vet Sergeant with a Calibanite Warblade in Ravenwing Protocols.

 

Go for a weak enemy Consul.

 

Hit the enemy with a stasis weapon.

 

Charge with S6 attacks.

 

Have a shot at IDing the character before they can react (unless they are base I5) in which case at the same time!

Edited April 5, 2016 by Charlo

[rendingon1+]

Sniper vets with acid shellsx2/stasis + shells. I know it's not a thing you can build around tactics, but acid shells with sniper have 50% chance of ignoring 2+ and 66% chance of ignoring 3+ (not  great discovery). Stasis shells, benefit from sniper too (although small "rending" blast is not great it's still better than just a blast). For me they are very nice support squad, or (power weapons, stasis, kharybdis/ land raider + furious charge) are one of the best MEQ destroyers, especially with rerolls from chaplain/librarian they can expect to wipe out sv3+ squad completely. Unfortunately they are veeery expensive and though effective (when used carefully) there are other more effective choices.

 

Oh, one more thing - stasis shells are GREAT in zone mortalis. In last game I managed to turn 3 Reaction Fires to mere snapshots thanks to -1I on shells.

Edited April 5, 2016 by rendingon1+

[The Lord of Iron]

Its a shame that you can't take Calibanite war blades on all of the veterans, that would be cool if a little pricey. Anyone think that fearless would be worth anything? 

[Slips]

Its a shame that you can't take Calibanite war blades on all of the veterans, that would be cool if a little pricey. Anyone think that fearless would be worth anything? 

If you're up against Combat Resolution Buffing Armies (IF w/ Dorn, EC w/ Fulgrim), then yeah it will certainly help if you ever whiff.

 

Or if you want something to sit on an objective pew pewing away without fear of them breaking and running.

[The Lord of Iron]

 

Its a shame that you can't take Calibanite war blades on all of the veterans, that would be cool if a little pricey. Anyone think that fearless would be worth anything? 

If you're up against Combat Resolution Buffing Armies (IF w/ Dorn, EC w/ Fulgrim), then yeah it will certainly help if you ever whiff.

 

Or if you want something to sit on an objective pew pewing away without fear of them breaking and running.

 

 

That is definitely when you would want the rule. I'm just wondering when how often those kind of circumstances would come up, especially with the dark angels rights of war being incredibly aggressive. Raven wing for example requires that all infantry start in flyers, which usually means a storm eagle. I think any veteran squad in a storm eagle is going to get the drop on whatever it charges. like wise in Iron wing I don't think you will want the infantry sitting in the back considering the +1 to wound at half range. 

 

Maybe the rule would be better for zone mortalis play. 

 

I just think the idea of fearless dark angels is a fun visual 

[Slips]

Well, fearless also lets you drop them in "Danger Close" without much fear (heh) of them running away from shooting or CC they get stuck in. So you could definitely use Fearless Aggressively.

 

How many times its going to be a better option than, say, Rad Grenades and Furious Charge for IDing Power Axes vs MEQ?

 

Luckily, you can change Vet USR before the game actually starts soooooo thats a thing you can change on the fly and with all the funky-fun deployment options and missions in 30k, it might come into play more often than not.

[Charlo]

An all vet DA army may just work... Maybe.

[Slips]

Well, that means POTL, Chosen Duty or Primarchs Chosen :\

[Farseer Anath'lan]

It is a shame that Vets can't take Calibanite Warblades. I don't think I'd ever take one, except for on an apothecary.

 

I hope they edit it when we get our proper rules

 

@Slipstreams, Is there a problem with those Rites, or just a personal thing?

[Slips]

No, I personally LOVE pride and use it the most out of any RoW alongside Primarchs Chosen now that its a thing.

 

Its just that massed vets usually means you want them as troops and that limits your options to pretty much those RoWs.

 

And both have some potentially hefty drawbacks.

Edited April 6, 2016 by Slipstreams