[HH1.0] Black Shields Tactica

[Slips]

Since you can choose to use the Deepstrike rule or not, you should be ok.

 

But, if you're using Outlanders and not mass deepstriking, I don't see the point, honestly.

 

And if you are, you still need something on the board T1 or you lose.

 

You also have to worry about the Shadow Of Oblivion rule possibly doing way more damage than possible.

Edited June 24, 2016 by Slipstreams

[Plaguecaster]

Are pariah bolters worth it? Going Chymeria black shields with breachers and wondering if changing their normal bolters to pariah bolters would be any good

[Slips]

Ehhhhh you might be better off getting a 2nd Bolt Pistol if you want an Assaulty Blackshield Army.

 

Marauders already have BP & Chainaxe and a 2nd BP gives them Gunslinger which lets them fire both in the shooting phase.

 

Since they're pistols, it doesn't restrict charging and force a disordered charge like the Pariah Bolter. You lose ~4" of range but keep any charge bonuses.

 

+++

For Breachers? You rarely want to be the one charging with them so I'd honestly keep the Regular Bolters for the increased range.

Edited June 24, 2016 by Slipstreams

[Tyberos the Red Wake]

I've been using Pariah Bolters simply because it makes using existing models easier. I'm sure most of us have Bolter models lying around far more than perfectly setup chainaxe/dual BP models. Apparently Pariah Bolters have no weapons casing so they have exposed internals, sort of like a pipe-gun. I wonder if FW will be making official kits for Black Shield wargear and things like Marauders, Reaver Lords, and the Nemean Reaver.

[Slips]

Apparently, Blackshields might not get any actual kits, sadly. Characters? Maybe. But until further notice, it looks like the Transfers are all they're getting for now.

 

Well, if you give your Breachers Flamers or Meltaguns, Pariah Bolters make sense since you can then Shoot -> Charge. -1" due to their armour but still good to avoid getting shot at.

[Caillum]

This is a similar discussion to the value of Hammer of Olympia's "Hail of Fire". Basically, you're better off rapid-firing bolters and making a Disordered Charge, than you are firing bolt pistols and making a normal charge.

 

True Grit vs MEQs = 3.61 kills

10 Marines, 10 bolt pistol shots, 6.66 hits, 3.33 wounds, 1.11 kills.

10 Marines, 30 chainsword swings, 15 hits, 7.5 wounds, 2.5 kills.

 

True Grit with "Hail of Fire" vs MEQs = 3.88 kills

10 Marines, 20 bolter shots, 13.33 hits, 6.66 wounds, 2.22 kills.

10 Marines, 20 chainsword swings, 10 hits, 5 wounds, 1.66 kills.

 

Whilst it's not much, 6.5% more kills is still 6.5% more kills. Also works nicely for Breachers, like Slipstreams said. This applies exactly the same way with Pariah bolters on Marauders.

 

But the only ranged option we should consider for Marauders is the Astartes shotgun! Best of both worlds, with a S4 Assault 2 weapon and 4 S4 AP4 attacks on the charge! Eat your heart out World Eaters!

[Slips]

Ah! But, Dear Callium! Marauder Squads have BP & Chainaxe Standard with the Option to buy a second Bolt Pistol.

 

That means 2 Shots at <12" AND no disordered charge!

[Caillum]

Yeah, fair point. But both bolter and 2nd bolt pistol are twice the price of an Astartes shotgun, so pretty much only one choice there!

[Slips]

Yeah, in that case, the shotgun wins.

[CaptainHelion]

Plus shotgun marauders are super cool

[Charlo]

Assuming you can have Shotgun, Chainaxe AND Bolt Pistol then that seems an awesome way to go.

 

But I'll always go akimbo pistols, or even a mix for fun, really emphasize the theme.

 

Plus, then with outlanders and rad grenades you can have troops choices of pseudo super destroyers.

Edited June 25, 2016 by Charlo

[Tyberos the Red Wake]

Conveniently, FW has this: https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/Space-Marine-Legion-Deliverance-Pattern-Shotguns

 

Are these the only shotguns you can buy en masse? They seem to be RG/Mor Deythan specific due to being Deliverance-Pattern.

[CaptainHelion]

It certainly looks it. There's always the shotguns from the Space Marine Scouts, and Scout Bikers, but that's probably only really viable if you raid friend's bits boxes.

[Doctor Perils]

Conveniently, FW has this: https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/Space-Marine-Legion-Deliverance-Pattern-Shotguns

 

Are these the only shotguns you can buy en masse? They seem to be RG/Mor Deythan specific due to being Deliverance-Pattern.

I don't think anyone could blame you for using them as "normal" shotguns.

[Dono1979]

http://anvilindustry.co.uk/The-Armoury/Rifles-Shotguns-Pistols/Automatic-Shotgun

http://anvilindustry.co.uk/image/cache/data/a-new/rifles_pistols/auto-shotgun-400x400.jpg

[Hellrender]

Do rapier squads count as infantry for the purpose of calculating how many vehicles you can have?

 

Also, do squadrons or talons count as a unit to see how many vehicles you can have?

[Slips]

Rapiers are Artillery.

 

For Talons and Vehicle Squadrons I'm inclined to say count each individual.

[Plaguecaster]

Do independent characters count as well like if I take appthecaries and a reaver lord?

[Slips]

Yes, they count as Infantry units in and of themselves unless you give then bikes, of course. Edited June 28, 2016 by Slipstreams

[Charlo]

Rapiers are Artillery.

 

For Talons and Vehicle Squadrons I'm inclined to say count each individual.

 

Unsure how the rules are written, but seeing as even talons are "deployed as a unit" up until the beginning of the battle they are just one "vehicle unit".

 

It's a similar weird situation as coils of the hydra and needing transports argument in terms of sequencing.

[Slips]

For Dreads, it comes down to how you/your group interprets the Talon rules and all that pertains to it.

 

For Tank Squadrons, possibly 1 squad of 1-3 tanks counts as 1 selection.

[Tyberos the Red Wake]

"A Blackshield Detachment may never have more units with the Vehicle type than it has units with the Infantry type, excluding Dedicated Transports." - HH6 p.219

 

Key word would be units in this case. I think a squadron or talon counts as one unit?

[Slips]

Yeah, in this case a Talon/Squad is 1 for the purposes of Units.

[Hellrender]

Thanks!

 

Without dread drop o

Pods, what about a slogging leviathan with dual bombard, volkite and phospex?

Edited June 29, 2016 by Hellrender

[CaptainHelion]

While there's no arguing that the grav bombard is brutal, I feel like I can never really support losing both dccws on the Leviathan. You lose two attacks, severing blow and ap2.