[HH1.0] White Scars Tactica

[Marshal Loss]

What do Power Glaives do?

 

Can be wielded 1-handed as S-user AP3 or 2-handed as S+1 AP2. Basically as a power sword or 2-handed power axe without unwieldy. Brilliant weapon

[Charlo]

The only issue with the Glaives on the Terminators is that they don't have an additional weapon to pair with the one-handed mode when fighting standard marines/ chaff!

[Mango Polo]

I had a feeling that the power glaive would be nerfed, but so far it seems like there's no indication that anything's changed. 

 

Ebon Keshig seem like a solid upgrade over normal terminators for tackling Sv 2+ enemies. Based on the render we can expect them to be a unit of 10 too, which is great. Might be a good candidate to pair with the new Warmonger consul, who grants the unit he is attached to Deep Strike.

 

The assault speeder is pretty nice, but doesn't invalidate the normal javelin. Reliable S8-9 is great, so twice the points for a lot of weaker dakka depends on what kind of army you are building. Looking forward to fielding both.

 

Golden Keshig finally, finally give bike/jetbike HQs a unit to hang out with. Scimitars are awful on the choppy front and Outriders are pricy for their melee output. And the point cost for a full unit of 6 is super reasonable. Not too sure about only making one S7 AP1 attack though, but could be brilliant with power axes.

 

Tsolomon Khan is quite interesting too for Chogorian Brotherhood. Will come down to his point cost and if he has any extra rules to determine if he's worth it over a tooled-up praetor.

 

WS7 on Jaghatai is not too disappointing. On the jetbike he has no reason to ever get tarpitted into an endles primarch-on-primarch fight. We still need to see what his Hammer of Wrath bonus does and what the lance provides, but being able to pick when and where to pop up on the field is perfect. Feels like he's a primarch who's almost never going to feel wasted ("oh no my spartan got alpha striked turn 1, guess we're hoofing it...").

[Gorgoff]

 

 

What do Power Glaives do?

Can be wielded 1-handed as S-user AP3 or 2-handed as S+1 AP2. Basically as a power sword or 2-handed power axe without unwieldy. Brilliant weapon

Wow, those terminators are nasty then.

 

@charlo: At least they can flip off their opponents. ;)

Edited February 6, 2019 by Gorgoff

[Charlo]

Flip them the Chogorian War Hawk ;)!

[Indefragable]

I think Khan makes WS one of the best Legions in 30k on the TT. So many tricks up their sleeves and excellent balance of range+melee.

 

With jetbikes everywhere, units repositioning before the fight, and Outflank, opponents are going to feel outmauveted and trapped at every corner...just like those who faced the Mongols did.

[Charlo]

Having played against WS (sans Khan though) they are strong. However its worth noting their numbers are small and every jink is a squad of wasted firepower ;)

[Purge the Daemon]

So based on mango polos post I've tried working out a scars force

 

Chogorian Brotherhood

 

LOW:

 

Jaghati Khan 460

- jetbike

 

HQ:

 

 

 

Troops:

 

4 × 6 Golden Keshig 280 (1120)

- not sure if this includes melta bombs /

ccw trade in for "kitted out

 

Fast Attack:

 

2 × 2 Kyzagan Land Speeders 210 (420)

- includes hunter killer missiles

 

Primaris lighting 230

- 4 krakens, ground tracking auguries, battle survivors

 

Heavy Support:

 

2 × 1 Fire Raptor 230 (460)

- reaper autocannons , hellstrike missiles

 

2690/3000

 

 

This leaves me with 310 for an hq choice(s) and maybe some toys to throw around or toss in 1 more unit if it's cheap. But otherwise I'm liking the mobility a lot of antitank with keshig and the planes and not all together bad shooting phase. I may also consider tsoloman khan though I'm not sure if he is a loyalist or traitor but I imagine hes in the 200 neighborhood once mounted.

Edited February 8, 2019 by Purge the Daemon

[Meduson]

Hey all. Just got my first 500 pots of Scars done for an event this past weekend which was great fun. Basically ran them as an assault squad with a delegatus and a 5 man machine killer vets. I know everyone runs Chogarian Brotherhood, but I wanted to go a different route with assault marines as the prime focus. However, they seemed to bounce off of stuff a lot and weren’t as shiny as I thought.

 

Having said that, I’m trying to stay away of too many bikes. What’re everyone’s thoughts on this approach to the Vth? Any advice on using assault marines?

[Luna707]

What are everyone's thoughts on the Golden and Ebon Keshig?

[Unknown Legionnaire]

15 pts. for combi weapons ... yeah.

[Charlo]

Really?! That's mad.

[Unknown Legionnaire]

The new unit entries (WS, BA or 'general' LA army list entries) all have weird pricing issues across the board.

15 pt. combi weapons ...

20 pt. power fists on terminators ...

Thunder hammers cheaper than fists on some ...

Etc. etc. ... 

Looks like every single unit entry was given to and thus written by a different person without some sort of direction or masterplan behind it at all ... ah well ... 

And there I was thinking rules writing for HH would become more solid again ... cause the Ruinstorm list looks splendid.

Why can't they get the entire book right ?  *sigh*

[Mango Polo]

Not feeling the update too much.

 

Chogorian Brotherhood: The VP penaltyI approve of. But the new limitation of only 1 Heavy Support is awful and goes against FW's stance of not invalidating lists.

 

Power Glaive: Cost went up by another 10. It's a very powerful weapon, but at that cost... why? Feels like it's something very niche now.

 

Ebon Keshig: Solid in Zone Mortalis. But no Dedicated Transport and their Kharash rule means they can only be joined by an IC with Kharash too. Except... there's no such thing, so it means no one can join them. Feels like FW had intended for either another named character, or a legion rule that lets you brand an IC as Kharash.

 

Golden Keshig: Cumbersome is OOF. At max size 6 you're only getting 6 WS5 kontos lance attacks on the charge. Your only options to improve that are a chaplain or a librarian, which both cost way too much for such a small unit. On the other hand if there are multi-wound, non-Eternal Warrior units on the board they seem perfectly good at goring them. The gun on the jetbike will do saintly work in ZM and against hordes though.

 

Falcons: Interesting. They have some seriously aggressive forward deployment and murder potential. No nuncio-vox though, really? Again feels like a fantastic ZM unit.

 

Khan: Turbo-missile. Opens up interesting doors for non-Chogorian Brotherhood RoWs.

 

Can't say much about Tsolomon yet, other than he makes Golden Keshig troops. But I'm not sure I want more than a single Golden Keshig anyway, and even then more as a novelty :/

 

Unique Speeder: It has 3 guns, so it needs to move >6" to fire them all. Ehhhhh. Good firepower, but the regular javelin is such a steal.

[Purge the Daemon]

Not feeling the update too much.

 

Chogorian Brotherhood: The VP penaltyI approve of. But the new limitation of only 1 Heavy Support is awful and goes against FW's stance of not invalidating lists.

 

Power Glaive: Cost went up by another 10. It's a very powerful weapon, but at that cost... why? Feels like it's something very niche now.

 

Ebon Keshig: Solid in Zone Mortalis. But no Dedicated Transport and their Kharash rule means they can only be joined by an IC with Kharash too. Except... there's no such thing, so it means no one can join them. Feels like FW had intended for either another named character, or a legion rule that lets you brand an IC as Kharash.

 

Golden Keshig: Cumbersome is OOF. At max size 6 you're only getting 6 WS5 kontos lance attacks on the charge. Your only options to improve that are a chaplain or a librarian, which both cost way too much for such a small unit. On the other hand if there are multi-wound, non-Eternal Warrior units on the board they seem perfectly good at goring them. The gun on the jetbike will do saintly work in ZM and against hordes though.

 

Falcons: Interesting. They have some seriously aggressive forward deployment and murder potential. No nuncio-vox though, really? Again feels like a fantastic ZM unit.

 

Khan: Turbo-missile. Opens up interesting doors for non-Chogorian Brotherhood RoWs.

 

Can't say much about Tsolomon yet, other than he makes Golden Keshig troops. But I'm not sure I want more than a single Golden Keshig anyway, and even then more as a novelty :/

 

Unique Speeder: It has 3 guns, so it needs to move >6" to fire them all. Ehhhhh. Good firepower, but the regular javelin is such a steal.

Wait you need tsolman to make golden keshig troops does it require him to be the warlord to do so?

[Mango Polo]

 

Not feeling the update too much.

 

Chogorian Brotherhood: The VP penaltyI approve of. But the new limitation of only 1 Heavy Support is awful and goes against FW's stance of not invalidating lists.

 

Power Glaive: Cost went up by another 10. It's a very powerful weapon, but at that cost... why? Feels like it's something very niche now.

 

Ebon Keshig: Solid in Zone Mortalis. But no Dedicated Transport and their Kharash rule means they can only be joined by an IC with Kharash too. Except... there's no such thing, so it means no one can join them. Feels like FW had intended for either another named character, or a legion rule that lets you brand an IC as Kharash.

 

Golden Keshig: Cumbersome is OOF. At max size 6 you're only getting 6 WS5 kontos lance attacks on the charge. Your only options to improve that are a chaplain or a librarian, which both cost way too much for such a small unit. On the other hand if there are multi-wound, non-Eternal Warrior units on the board they seem perfectly good at goring them. The gun on the jetbike will do saintly work in ZM and against hordes though.

 

Falcons: Interesting. They have some seriously aggressive forward deployment and murder potential. No nuncio-vox though, really? Again feels like a fantastic ZM unit.

 

Khan: Turbo-missile. Opens up interesting doors for non-Chogorian Brotherhood RoWs.

 

Can't say much about Tsolomon yet, other than he makes Golden Keshig troops. But I'm not sure I want more than a single Golden Keshig anyway, and even then more as a novelty :/

 

Unique Speeder: It has 3 guns, so it needs to move >6" to fire them all. Ehhhhh. Good firepower, but the regular javelin is such a steal.

Wait you need tsolman to make golden keshig troops does it require him to be the warlord to do so?

 

e: Scratch that. There is no way to take Golden Keshig as troops. Not sure what the people who first saw Tsolomon's rules were smoking at the time, but now it's 100% clear Golden Keshigs are stuck as elites.

Edited March 25, 2019 by Mango Polo

[Purge the Daemon]

e: Scratch that. There is no way to take Golden Keshig as troops. Not sure what the people who first saw Tsolomon's rules were smoking at the time, but now it's 100% clear Golden Keshigs are stuck as elites.

Rip very unfortunate but from what I've heard they are terrible anyways. Seems weird the unique units arent good and the only set of legion rules to get actually nerfed.

 

Also wait you currently cannot use jaghati khan in chogorian brotherhood period this is definetly an oversight. Since his bike is neither an sm bike or scimitar either golly gee fw.

Edited March 25, 2019 by Purge the Daemon

[Luna707]

I'm really enamored with the Ebon Keshig and would love to add them to a Chogorian Brotherhood list. What would be the fluffiest way to get them into combat? 

[Charlo]

Khrybdis?

[mechadryad]

So an important question to discuss:

 

Golden Keshig, under estimated like the Gal Vorbak or waste of a specialist unit like Phalanx Wardens?

 

 

Reasons with your opinions plz

[Slips]

So an important question to discuss:

 

Golden Keshig, under estimated like the Gal Vorbak or waste of a specialist unit like Phalanx Wardens?

 

 

Reasons with your opinions plz

IT would help to explain what your own point of view on the subject is to get the ball rolling.

 

Addendum: Phalanx Warders arent a waste anymore with the playtest (being cheaper than regular breacher squads before upgrades).

 

Basically, they want to charge and bail because of their lances. Upgrading them to Power Weapons seems like a waste and you're really hard to charge since every bike has a flamer template heavy bolter.

 

Downside is small unit size and not wanting to be in combat for more than 1 turn. The Lack of invuln and the 1 attack with the spears exacerbates it.

[mechadryad]

IT would help to explain what your own point of view on the subject is to get the ball rolling.

 

Addendum: Phalanx Warders arent a waste anymore with the playtest (being cheaper than regular breacher squads before upgrades).

 

Basically, they want to charge and bail because of their lances. Upgrading them to Power Weapons seems like a waste and you're really hard to charge since every bike has a flamer template heavy bolter.

 

Downside is small unit size and not wanting to be in combat for more than 1 turn. The Lack of invuln and the 1 attack with the spears exacerbates it.

 

 

Correct, I forgot about the cost change the Phalanx Wardens. Like destroyers though I think there's still changes to be made but that's a discussion for another thread.

 

So I only got HH8 3 days ago so I'm still trying to figure them out, but I feel like they're best used outside of the Brotherhood rite. All the benefits to them are redundant as they already have them and will either find close range too crowded or completely unsupported

 

I disagree that the unit size is an issue since bike squads function better at a maximum of 6, my issues lay with the weapon loadout. Personally I was hoping for Glaives, the lances wouldn't be criticised if it wasn't restricted to 1A since you'll likely only get one shot at it and it needs additional help or excellent luck. It doesn't help that they only have 1A anyway despite being veterans on bikes so the power weapons don't even help.

 

I would've preferred that you can swap the lances for power weapons rather than having to have both, this would have made them the shock unit that the legion needed. I'd pay 15 to upgrade to Glaives, not 10 for an additional weapon.

 

I lean towards this unit being shiny golden turds, which sucks because this is the unit I was waiting for

[Purge the Daemon]

 

 

IT would help to explain what your own point of view on the subject is to get the ball rolling.

 

Addendum: Phalanx Warders arent a waste anymore with the playtest (being cheaper than regular breacher squads before upgrades).

 

Basically, they want to charge and bail because of their lances. Upgrading them to Power Weapons seems like a waste and you're really hard to charge since every bike has a flamer template heavy bolter.

 

Downside is small unit size and not wanting to be in combat for more than 1 turn. The Lack of invuln and the 1 attack with the spears exacerbates it.

 

Correct, I forgot about the cost change the Phalanx Wardens. Like destroyers though I think there's still changes to be made but that's a discussion for another thread.

 

So I only got HH8 3 days ago so I'm still trying to figure them out, but I feel like they're best used outside of the Brotherhood rite. All the benefits to them are redundant as they already have them and will either find close range too crowded or completely unsupported

 

I disagree that the unit size is an issue since bike squads function better at a maximum of 6, my issues lay with the weapon loadout. Personally I was hoping for Glaives, the lances wouldn't be criticised if it wasn't restricted to 1A since you'll likely only get one shot at it and it needs additional help or excellent luck. It doesn't help that they only have 1A anyway despite being veterans on bikes so the power weapons don't even help.

 

I would've preferred that you can swap the lances for power weapons rather than having to have both, this would have made them the shock unit that the legion needed. I'd pay 15 to upgrade to Glaives, not 10 for an additional weapon.

 

I lean towards this unit being shiny golden turds, which sucks because this is the unit I was waiting for

Like I may still take a unit for the khan cause hopefully they will look cool but they are hot trash.

 

Litterally ws5 regular jetbikes. The only special rule is hit and run which chogorian brotherhood also gives and so does the khan. Their jetbike I dont even think is an upgrade at least heavy bolters you can shoot and jink and if you are firing overwatch with this squad you may as well remove them from the table. Funny how they have artificer armour but the jetbikes give them a 2+ anyways. I have no clue why they are 1w no ++ and 1 attack models makes no sense. The math on this unit is so bad 6 of them charging kills litterally 1 ws5 cataphracti terminator.

 

I rather hoped for glaives on any mounted unit even a command squad but alas we dont get them.

 

I also dont think 6 unit size is the problem most of my bike squads are that size but this unit just lacks everything.

 

Fluff wise they said the scars use the golden keshig in place of where most legions use terminators no invul mhm.

 

 

White scars honestly got the short end of the stick 3 nerfs to legion astartes nerf to unique weapon 2 nerfs to unique row and their unique units are questionable at best I'm kind of confused.

 

And even though they changed the row jaghati cannot be taken in chogorian Brotherhood as his bike is not a scimitar. He can only fire 1 of his 2 heavy bolters and has no invul in movement and psychic phases.

Edited April 14, 2019 by Purge the Daemon

[mechadryad]

Yeah, the more I read this book the more it a mess it becomes, I doubt I'll run Chogorian Brotherhood unless I want Outriders since Skyhunter Phalanx allows me to take flyers in the HS slot. The task of dealing with vehicles now heavily relies on melta bombs and it actually stops you taking Skyslayers (You'll never use the one slot you have on them)

 

I'm probably gonna use Armoured Breakthrough, Orbital Assault or Angels Wrath for the foreseeable future

[ShadowCore67]

Anyone else think the new speeder costs way too much? I get it has a different loadout but for 5 more points I can take two regular javelins with CML.