IA - The Nightguard

[bluntblade]

Then I suggest we use a different word to signify their disciplines

[Kelborn]

So we're talking about the Hexagrammaton, right?

 

Would make sense fir them to use the Emperors first draft of Astartes Organization. Specialists everywhere and when tge need arises, their experience is required.

[bluntblade]

Did make me think that the LB are a curious choice for I Legion. If we were going for "the standard Legion" I wonder who of ours would fit best.

[Kelborn]

Standard like UM and IF?

[Doctor Perils]

I wasn't thinking that the Orders operated as fighting units. Instead, they are part of an order according to their specialism but squads are composed of a mix of astartes from different Orders to have that flexibility. Should have been clearer on that, my fault

So, sort of like Thousand Sons cults?

[Sigismund229]

So we're talking about the Hexagrammaton, right?

 

Would make sense fir them to use the Emperors first draft of Astartes Organization. Specialists everywhere and when tge need arises, their experience is required.

Effectively

 

@Thørn: yes sort of

[bluntblade]

Standard like UM and IF?

Like the DA. The LB after all were conceived as the II Legion. I kind of wish we'd retained that bit. Rather like the idea of the VE being the First, and just going nuts with the awful relic weapons all the time.

[Doctor Perils]

Necromancyyyyyy!

 

With the release of the new HH book 8, and the release of Nullificators and Psykana and such, we need to look into the Nightguard, the Ghost Crusade and everything Daemon-related. I'm going to be reopening some discussions we have already had, but we've done quite a bit more work on other aspects of the project in the last 2 (!) Years so they may need re-exploring

 

IIRC we have

- the Ist Legion have many psykers to conduct the Ghost Crusade against the forces of Chaos, even during the Great Crusade

- three legions that have pariahs in their ranks (XII, XV and XVII)

- one warp suppressant legion (VIII)

- one witch-seeker (X)

- one Legion of warp hunters (XX)

 

This is a massive chunk of our legions, and we still have the Sisters of Silence, plus we are adding in the Nightguard as proto-grey knights / deathwatch...

 

Canonverse by contrast have pretty much only the Silent sisterhood and the Knights Errant/Grey Knights

 

 

What is causing the need for quite so many weapons against chaos?

Perhaps simply say the Chaos gods get way more aggressive before the creation of the Primarchs? This at least would spur the Emperor on to explore different Primarch designs geared towards protecting realspace

 

 

Where do the Nightguard enter into this though? I would posit it's not really that important to start gathering them during the Great Crusade - however 4 of the anti-warp legions turn traitor, and at least one of the others is only barely loyal (looking at you Gwal!)

-> it may therefore be more logical to start forming them after the day of Revelation?

[Grifftofer]

That seems like a sensible proposition. We could follow a similar storyline to canon, with Malcador being the one to find individuals to form the core of this new anti-chaos group. Given the extended timeframe of the Insurrection they might even be a viable combat force in the latter stages of the war able to help against the ramped up chaos usage of the later-Insurrection forces of the Stormlord.

[Beren]

Alternate idea: What if they were specifically linked to the Prospero catastrophe? An attempt to try and prevent anything like it happening again. Most of their recruits are still embedded in their parent Legions to pick up on any growing issues, acting as Malcador's eyes. The Insurrection is a massive failiure for them and sees most killed and a few turn traitor in its early days, forcing the Nightguard to pull back. Malcador then uses what is left as a framework for the later Nightguard who are more directed rowards chaos specifically.

[Doctor Perils]

Oooh, as in a secret police/disciplinary corps/military police with added psychic or Pariah sugar ? Definitely up for that

[bluntblade]

There is also the Ordo Sinister for Alpha-Grade parker threats.

 

I agree with Prospero as an inviting incident.

[Kelborn]

I like Beren's idea!

 

And a reasonable for more aggressive gods could be Malal/ Malice. As he's Part of our AU, and as he stands for anarchy, the gods + forces could be more up to working against each other than we have in canon.

 

The more we have of chaos-y stuff happening, the easier to lay the foundation to both, the Nightguard and certain faction's corruption like the Preds.

[simison]

I like the idea that the Nightguard was a creation of Malcador. It can give them some history without giving them rules until they're forced to work out in the open. And it fits with Malcador preparing contingencies.

[MikhalLeNoir]

Look away Thorn!!! Gwal is loyal to the imperials Ideals, more than most if his infighting brothers!!!

 

 

I like berens Idea.

[Beren]

The main issue with it is figuring out how it managed to fail so spectacularly, especially in regards to things like the Forlorn and the build up of Grave Stalker Reapers.

 

We could say that because of the secrecy around the Ghost Crusade the Lightning Bearers branch had to be subject to soecific accomodations that meant that Icarion was aware of them before hand.

 

Its also possible that the Vizenko prosecution and the creation of the Chaplaincy lead to it being cut back due to increased formal oversight.

[simison]

The main issue with it is figuring out how it managed to fail so spectacularly, especially in regards to things like the Forlorn and the build up of Grave Stalker Reapers.

 

We could say that because of the secrecy around the Ghost Crusade the Lightning Bearers branch had to be subject to soecific accomodations that meant that Icarion was aware of them before hand.

 

Its also possible that the Vizenko prosecution and the creation of the Chaplaincy lead to it being cut back due to increased formal oversight.

 

Perhaps than we should push their creation back to a different event? The Nightguard could come into being after the Day of Revelation. 

[bluntblade]

I'd go with Prospero still, but with the Nightguard not thinking to watch the Legions because, well, same reasons as canon.

[Beren]

The issue then is what exactly does Prospero cause them to be founded for? It's distinguishing features are that it's warp related and it involves Legions.

 

 

Edit: Reading through Malevolence, the failiure of Makcafor's Elucidators makes the failiure of the Nightguard more plausible. Could Icarion manipulate an event where Nightguard interfernece has disasterous consequences? Alexandros might also try to scale them back to avood diplatic issues with their host Legions as well.

[Beren]

Summarising a conceot for our functional Deathwatch equivalent briefly discussed on Discord:

 

Our Deathwatch equivalent could be formed from splinters of the Nightguard that had become specialised in dealing with Xenos during the Insurrection. At any point during the Insurrection Nightguard squads or detachments could become stranded on the fringes of the Imperium, isolated and with no way of safely reaching Terra or the front lines. In such regions it is possible that opportunistic xenos raiders exploiting the Imperium's disarray would be as great a threat as Insurrectionist attacks, and the Nightguard would find themselves coordinating whatever forces they had available to deal with the threat directly in front of them. Tnis could also lay the ground for a suggestion by Gerard/French where veteran guardsmen and Freeblade knights also form a part of these nascent cells.

 

In addition to this, it is possibke that Malcador directs a portion of the Nightguard to investigate Aeldari interventions over the course of the Insurrection. As negotiations with some of the Aeldari commence, it is even possible that some cells are used as denouncable 'Blackshield' raiding paety where an attack or reconnaissance on Aeldari forces might seem necessary but where diplomatic complications should be avoided.

 

With the Insurrection's conclusion, Malcador exploits such adaptations and brings these disparate cells together to form a parallel, though perhaps less respected, organisation to the Nightguard.

[French-Kaedmon]

So the Nightguard would be more extensive during the Insurrection , perhaps it could result into a split which gives birth to others organizations post Insurrection (GK Nightguard , DW for all kinds of veterans , even those part from the mechanicus , and more).

With some Eldars becoming part of the Imperium , perhaps a "special division" which collaborates with these eldars could be created as the fight against chaos becomes even more important ? After all "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" though I doubt the NG would reveal all their secrets to them , hence the special division

 

Also another idea that popped into my mind , how about a "terminus station" stationed into the warp ? While it is considered a "sea of energy" there's also some spots that are seen as "islands" , such as the formless wastes , the forge of souls or the gods citadels. Since Malcador , in canon , sent Titan into the warp for some decades real time /centuries in the warp (with macro gellar fields , enchantments and the warp nexus) I say it might be doable (especially with the emperor's presence in the warp post insurrection). Got the idea from the Elder

scrolls battlespire :

[bluntblade]

I personally like the idea of using the canon notion where the DW arise during the War of the Beasts

[Nomus Sardauk]

Honestly if we do an anti-xeno faction I'd prefer it if they were completely separate and unconnected to the Nightguard in any way.

[French-Kaedmon]

Honestly if we do an anti-xeno faction I'd prefer it if they were completely separate and unconnected to the Nightguard in any way.

^ perhaps using the fact that xenos raids becomes more and more important over the course of the war would justify its existence (or at least its prototype) during and after the Insurrection.

Having it being solidified over the course of a xeno war (ie War of the beast like) in terms of tactics , recruitment and all as the main threat for the Imperium would be chaos traitors / Suzerainty neighbors and with xenos in the Imperium allowed , it doesn't strike as much as a menace

[Beren]

To the contrary, having an alliance with xenos makes a specialised task force more likely. You might get members of an 'allied' xenos race exploiting the situation to cause more damage before the alarm is raised, and when dealing with such groups you need a reliable task force that isn't going to damage relationships or start a war through being overly zealous.

 

That said, as French mentioned it doesn't have to be solidified immediately. The original 'allied xenos policing' group could be recruited seperately fron the Night Guard, and tgise grouos on the Imperium's fringe can be replaced by blackshield and shattered Legion groups, with the two only combining at a later date.