[HH1.0] Legio Custodes Tactica

[Nusquam]

Thank ye

 

So to take a tank you need to ally at least two units of three custodes, and then use up one of your own HS slots? At which point you can take two? That's round about, but I suppose it will do until Feb.

 

I really like the tank. It's a bit on the strong side from that fl, but then again it's custodes, but then again again if they're going to be a force in a two player versus game they should be (more) expensive. I feel like they're avoiding power creep with the infantry rules, but leaning back towards it with this tank. But we won't know for sure until Inferno.

[norngahl]

So its a way better Sicaran for just 20 points more. Sigh.

[almightyjesus55]

So its a way better Sicaran for just 20 points more. Sigh.

To be fair it can get immobilized by some random terrain...

[Slips]

So its a way better Sicaran for just 20 points more. Sigh.

Kinda but not really.

 

Sure, BS5 twin-linked is pretty nasty with an S7 Ap(1)2 main gun and S6 Ap3 secondary is pretty terrifying BUT, each tank will only ever get 3 shots from either gun. They'll pretty much always hit (Much like a Deredeo) but you clearly trade Quality for Quantity.

 

For a Sicaran, you are only S7 Ap4 but you get double the shots. No +1 ap or Instant Death but in addition to that you can get 2 Lascannon Shots, a Pintle mounted weapon and a Heavy Bolter on the side.

 

So, for one, the Custodes Tank will get SUPER screwed by a Weapons Destroyed result since its a 50/50 shot at getting the main gun whereas the Sicaran can possibly have 5 Weapons (Accelerator, 2x Lascannon, Heavy Bolter, Pintle Weapon) as a form of safety net.

 

Too, whilst the Custodes tank can Deepstrike or Outflank, it has no real way to mitigate being immobilized by moving through terrain (unless skimmers can - I don't use them IDK) whilst the Sicaran can with the Dozer Blade and, if you want to make it rain, can give it an Auxiliary Drive to give you an extra chance at saying "NOT TODAY!" to immobilized results.

 

+++

 

Sure, on paper its pretty scary but its not that powerful.

[Ishagu]

It's av14 at the front, pretty tough.

 

It's better than a Sicaran, definitely.

However, it's not better than a Sicaran with Tank Hunters (I run mine with the bonus from Guilliman)

[Legionnaire of the VIIth]

 

-snip-

Too, whilst the Custodes tank can Deepstrike or Outflank, it has no real way to mitigate being immobilized by moving through terrain (unless skimmers can - I don't use them IDK) whilst the Sicaran can with the Dozer Blade and, if you want to make it rain, can give it an Auxiliary Drive to give you an extra chance at saying "NOT TODAY!" to immobilized results.

 

+++

 

Sure, on paper its pretty scary but its not that powerful.

 

Skimmers fly over terrain and only roll dangerous terrain tests if they stop on it (Stopping on Impassable terrain is counted as stopping on dangerous terrain). They basically exchange the Dozer Blade and Auxiliary Drive for greater mobility.

[norngahl]

It has greater mobility. It has outflank. It has deepstrike. It has a flair shield, giving -1S against regular and -2S vs blasts. It has jink.

 

It's not the weapon loadout itself. Quality for quantity, but i'd take that over heavy bolters any day. Ap4 Shots are useless against 3+ armies. The sicaran will be better at mowing levys. But thats it. In almost any other case the custodes tank will win or be relatively even.

 

20 points for the things mentioned above is a bargain. The flare shield itself is worth the points. It should be at least 20 points more expensive.

 

Whish they left the HB Sicaran at 155. Then I would keep my mouth shut.

[Memento Of Prospero]

That instant death is really not that good against mech. It should read: Roll a D6, on a 6 suffer instant death.

[Black Cohort]

That instant death is really not that good against mech. It should read: Roll a D6, on a 6 suffer instant death.

 

It does make tanking shots with your multi-wound invul save character more risky though.

 

Also part of the balance of the tank is that you have to field custodes as well.  Granted that isn't a huge hardship, but you can't just slot it into a list.

[SkimaskMohawk]

 

Its great at killing javelins, which is great because they're one of the most overpowered units in the game currently 

And yet not so widespread that they're literally in every list.

 

The tanks will probably find more use killing Flyers and Mechanicum MC's. I also get the feeling that, since it can deepstrike, it'll be pretty good at taking down some Super-Heavies with weaker rear armour with its S7 and Effectively-Ap-1 main gun.

 

 

 

 

 

Its great at killing javelins, which is great because they're one of the most overpowered units in the game currently 

And yet not so widespread that they're literally in every list.

 

The tanks will probably find more use killing Flyers and Mechanicum MC's. I also get the feeling that, since it can deepstrike, it'll be pretty good at taking down some Super-Heavies with weaker rear armour with its S7 and Effectively-Ap-1 main gun.

 

 

Yeah I don't see widespread javelins. They're good, but still AV11 HP2 that need to jink or die. Automata on the other hand are a tough nut to crack. Being bale to gib them is huge.

 

Also is there a clearer pic? Or a transcribed version? I can't make out some of it.

 

 

 

Well they were sleeper op before, and in the fast attack section, something that not a lot of people look at. Then, for some crazy reason, they got buffed like crazy; point reduction strafing run and backwash. For 225 you can have 15 BS 5 S 8 shots, 9 of which are twinlinked. They have deepstrike so with a damocles you can get some side and rear arc and still fire all their weapons because it counts as going combat speed. 

 

Their biggest downside is their actual dollar value, because no one wants to pay almost 100$ for one speeder

[Gorgoff]

Yupp, Javelin get balanced by their crazy high prize and their shampoo bottle look, of course. ;)

I read just that on Battlebunnies.com

"Col. Hertford5 November 2016 at 19:38

Last thing, the rules for custodes we have been changed in inferno. These represent an old draft. Also the syneges in the list will make them a very savage list. All war gear is the highest level of dark age of technology tech. It's been retained by the emperor for his household troops only."

Interesting, eh?

[Nusquam]

No doubt they're good. But they're still made of paper. You can drop down and nuke AV12 reliably(Which isn't uncommon) and do some damage to AV13, but not much against AV14. Anyone worth their salt isn't going to put their rear AV of anything important within a Damocles bubble. Once they pop down, because not deepstriking them is setting them up for failure, and unload on something they'll have to jink to survive which will severely limit their damage output. Which won't save you from the more popular sicaran or the new caladius. That's also assuming that there isn't any interceptor from a Mortis or Deredeo; at that point they'll have to jink before they even fire.

 

 

Yupp, Javelin get balanced by their crazy high prize and their shampoo bottle look, of course.
I read just that on Battlebunnies.com
"Col. Hertford5 November 2016 at 19:38
Last thing, the rules for custodes we have been changed in inferno. These represent an old draft. Also the syneges in the list will make them a very savage list. All war gear is the highest level of dark age of technology tech. It's been retained by the emperor for his household troops only."
Interesting, eh?

 

I will laugh if the best wargear is still worse than the literalwhos of the astartes. But seeing as how FW is determined to entice me with pretty models and BL supports RG/Custodes team ups I'm all for it.

[SkimaskMohawk]

They are fragile, but the best lists usually have really big distractions to deal with a la Leviathan and/or Spartan. The rhino has a turn to get into position so you can usually get side armour, and volume of fire will kill anything short of a leviathan or spartan in the side or cream a unit. And hey, the last thing that makes them so good is their last turn objective denial, so not shooting isn't the end of the world. All that packaged into 225, in a slot where there's no vanilla competition. These things are great for their points 

 

Intercepting with Helical is a joke. The dread has an extremely limited arc of fire that you can easily avoid; 22.5 degrees to either side

[Baluc]

No doubt they're good. But they're still made of paper. You can drop down and nuke AV12 reliably(Which isn't uncommon) and do some damage to AV13, but not much against AV14. Anyone worth their salt isn't going to put their rear AV of anything important within a Damocles bubble. Once they pop down, because not deepstriking them is setting them up for failure, and unload on something they'll have to jink to survive which will severely limit their damage output. Which won't save you from the more popular sicaran or the new caladius. That's also assuming that there isn't any interceptor from a Mortis or Deredeo; at that point they'll have to jink before they even fire.

 

 

Yupp, Javelin get balanced by their crazy high prize and their shampoo bottle look, of course.

I read just that on Battlebunnies.com

"Col. Hertford5 November 2016 at 19:38

Last thing, the rules for custodes we have been changed in inferno. These represent an old draft. Also the syneges in the list will make them a very savage list. All war gear is the highest level of dark age of technology tech. It's been retained by the emperor for his household troops only."

Interesting, eh?

 

I will laugh if the best wargear is still worse than the literalwhos of the astartes. But seeing as how FW is determined to entice me with pretty models and BL supports RG/Custodes team ups I'm all for it.

The have outflank and 48" range missiles... why would a jav ever deep strike? With enough LoS blocking terrain they can even start on the board.

[Charlo]

Honestly it's custodes Jetbikes that will do it for me I think.

 

T6 lancers covered in eagles. Hopefully the bikes are compact like the old Visions art.

 

Big fan of the hover tank though, quality over quantity for sure.

 

Mulch some closing Marines or worse whole you take pot shots up to 60" away with your main gun at flyers and all other light vehicles.

 

OH and the rules we got for Custodes are apparently much different to those in Inferno. They have been changed since. Apparently the talons list is mean.

Edited November 6, 2016 by Charlo

[Terminus]

Shampoo bottle look? I friggin' LOVE how the Javelin looks like, and I hate the skater shoe design GW has been using ever since speeders became plastic.  I would pay $100 for the old metal speeders if I could find any!

[Flint13]

 

That instant death is really not that good against mech. It should read: Roll a D6, on a 6 suffer instant death.

 

 

It does make tanking shots with your multi-wound invul save character more risky though.

 

Also part of the balance of the tank is that you have to field custodes as well.  Granted that isn't a huge hardship, but you can't just slot it into a list.

Yeah, those poor custodes are gonna bounce off some mech :/

[depthcharge12]

I don't care what all y'all get, as long as I get me some Custodes terminators with the power claws and Super de Duper heavy flamer petards.

 

I need them in my life <333 their artwork is sexy.

[Charlo]

Shampoo bottle look? I friggin' LOVE how the Javelin looks like, and I hate the skater shoe design GW has been using ever since speeders became plastic.  I would pay $100 for the old metal speeders if I could find any!

 

Recently got two on eBay for fairly cheap. While a little small, going to make them my Javelins :D

[SkimaskMohawk]

I played a game with some the other day, my chaplain and spear unit cut through the right flank of my opponent and eventually won me the game by securing an objective. The Hatred with Lightning Blow is extremely nice, and in some cases generated up to 6 more attacks.

 

However this is very conditional to my meta where:

1. You can choose your warlord trait

2. You can Charge after Outflanking or coming onto the board from normal reserves

3. You can take Relics at the cost of giving up 1 VP per relic taken on death.

 

So it let me have expanded maneuverability, and added durability with a void shield harness  

[Guiltysparc]

 

So its a way better Sicaran for just 20 points more. Sigh.

Kinda but not really.

 

Sure, BS5 twin-linked is pretty nasty with an S7 Ap(1)2 main gun and S6 Ap3 secondary is pretty terrifying BUT, each tank will only ever get 3 shots from either gun. They'll pretty much always hit (Much like a Deredeo) but you clearly trade Quality for Quantity.

 

[snip]

 

 

Why only 3 shots, since its fast it can be firing off those things like hot cakes whenever it moves?  

[Slips]

Read my post again :p

 

"3 shots from either gun" doesnt mean you only shot 1.

[foto69man]

Do we think there'll be a bigger transport?  Or will the rumored capacity of 5 for the big skimmer beast be raised?  HQ plus a squad will be capped at 4 then...

[Withershadow]

I saw a size comparison, this thing is very big, longer than land raider and about as fat. So I assume capacity 10 for 5 Custodes, but it doesn't look like an assault transport.

[Gorgoff]

Do we think there'll be a bigger transport?  Or will the rumored capacity of 5 for the big skimmer beast be raised?  HQ plus a squad will be capped at 4 then...

A job, which needs more than 5 Custodes to be done, can't be done. ;)