++ The Bringers of Despair - A Black Legion Community ++

[Midnightmare]

I am not familiar with that, though I was a big fan of the Blood Tithe from the Khorne Daemonkin book when I run my boys a Hounds of Abaddon - they were fun times :devil: - and would embrace something similar, though I don’t think they will change it.

[Akylas]

I’m only one state away from Memphis so I’m a little miffed to be sure

For what it's worth mine has a lot further to travel and has made it 2/3ds of the way. I'm hoping the estimated arrival date is exaggerated.

[Daemon Prince Marbas]

I am not familiar with that, though I was a big fan of the Blood Tithe from the Khorne Daemonkin book when I run my boys a Hounds of Abaddon - they were fun times :devil: - and would embrace something similar, though I don’t think they will change it.

I hope they do change it. It makes summoning better without it being broken because you have to complete feats to earn those summoning points in game. The daemons are free points wise just like 7th Edition but technically they're not because you have to achieve things in game to get them and the better you play the more lesser daemons you can summon or you can save it for a Herald or Greater Daemon.

[Panzer]

I am not familiar with that, though I was a big fan of the Blood Tithe from the Khorne Daemonkin book when I run my boys a Hounds of Abaddon - they were fun times - and would embrace something similar, though I don’t think they will change it.

 

Depravity points are awesome. They are pretty much the exact opposite of Bloodtithe points. While you gain Bloodtithe points for everything that dies, you gain Depravity points for everything your heroes damage without killing it and for every wound your heroes lose without getting killed. Also similarly while you can never have more than 8 Bloodtithe points and can start spending them from the first one beginning for different effects, you don't have a limit for Depravity points but can only start spending them from 6 onwards.

Just one of the examples where I find that AoS faction rules are way more creative and flavourful than the 40k rules.

 

That being said, since those systems are this closely tied to the themes of the four gods, I doubt we'll see it for generic daemon summoning for CSM.

[Midnightmare]

It would seem we are getting new Black Legion specific rules? Care to speculate?

 

I know the old Black Legion supplement wasn’t the best but I used it anyway and had no probs paying for VotLW. I am hoping for ObSec Terminators/Chosen as I run loads, maybe some of the old Relics reworked.

[Furnace Lord]

It would seem we are getting new Black Legion specific rules? Care to speculate?

 

I know the old Black Legion supplement wasn’t the best but I used it anyway and had no probs paying for VotLW. I am hoping for ObSec Terminators/Chosen as I run loads, maybe some of the old Relics reworked.

I can't make out very much on the blurry picture they posted, but I see cultists lose Legion traits and something about Black Crusaders giving +1 to to the bearer's...something. That's all I can really decipher :(

[Panzer]

Gotta love it. The Community wants Chaos Marines to get buffed and Cultists to lose access to Veterans of the Long War ... and GWs response is to take away Legion traits from Cultists. Classic. :D

[MithrilForge]

Gotta love it. The Community wants Chaos Marines to get buffed and Cultists to lose access to Veterans of the Long War ... and GWs response is to take away Legion traits from Cultists. Classic.

Sincere Question, since i don't know chaos's rules at all... - if Cultists lose legion traits...will that stop people spamming them as troops and take chaos marines instead ?!... 

 

Mithril

[Prot]

That’s the crux of Black Legion. Without fearless Cultists, there must be a massive buff to CSM troops. Where are you guys seeing this? Is it Codex information or just a Vigilus detachment?

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Probably not. The Cultists' advantage has always been their inexpense and the only Traits that Cultists *really* benefit from are Alpha Legion and maybe Iron Warriors. Now, if they lose the ability to use VotLW, then Cultist use might drop to minimum squads to fill a battalion rather than blobs that are capable of doing some damage.

[Prot]

But losing Legion traits means much more than that to Black Legion. I’d like to know where people might be hearing this from regardless.

[MithrilForge]

@Prot- i think its from Furnace lords comment about seeing blurry writing on the Black legion specific page from the Vigilus Ablaze book... 

 

Mithril

[Furnace Lord]

But losing Legion traits means much more than that to Black Legion. I’d like to know where people might be hearing this from regardless.

It's from the updated Black Legion rule sheet previewed on the latest Vigilus page from Warhammer Community. It's incredibly hard to make out anything, but that is one detail it appears to say.

 

I can make out "Mere Mortals: Chaos Cultists do not gain the Black Crusaders legion trait." Although there's a paragraph above that, so maybe there's still part of the legion rules they retain, but part they don't get.

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/03/17/pre-order-preview-abaddon-chaos-space-marines-and-more/

[techsoldaten]

 

But losing Legion traits means much more than that to Black Legion. I’d like to know where people might be hearing this from regardless.

It's from the updated Black Legion rule sheet previewed on the latest Vigilus page from Warhammer Community. It's incredibly hard to make out anything, but that is one detail it appears to say.

 

I can make out "Mere Mortals: Chaos Cultists do not gain the Black Crusaders legion trait." Although there's a paragraph above that, so maybe there's still part of the legion rules they retain, but part they don't get.

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/03/17/pre-order-preview-abaddon-chaos-space-marines-and-more/

 

 

Feels like this page doesn't actually give us anything new.

 

Just above Mere Mortals, the wording is:

 

"If your army is Batlte-Forged, all DAEMON PRINCE, INFANTRY, BIKERS and HELBRUTE units in a BLACK LEGION DETACHMENT gain the Black Crusaders Legion  []"

 

Black Crusaders appears to be the same as it is in the existing CSM Codex. The Relics, Stratagems and Warlord Traits all refer to other materials.

[Wayniac]

Yeah so far the only change is Mere Mortals. I hope the upcoming FAQ applies that to all legions and somehow removes the ability for cultists to use VOTLW and even the mark-specific stratagems

[Prot]

So this converts to having moral susceptible Cultists? Oh to be a conscript in the Guard!

 

I think we are still seeing waves from when Nanivatti spanked a GW employee with his CSM horde army. (just my suspicion since the timing is about right.)

 

If the BL traits don't change I'm not sure what the need to reprint some of this stuff is. I imagine there must be something new for BL as an army overall. We'll see in time I suppose.

[Wayniac]

I think they need to make it clear that cultists are meant to be chaff and screens, not the primary component of your army.  Giving them all of the buffs available to marines just makes marines worthless since 40k as it currently stands encourages a lot of cheap troops.

 

Still, find it incredibly hilarious that cultists get access to VOTLW while Renegades don't.  Not because it doesn't make sense for Renegades to not have it, but because it makes less sense that cultists *DO*

[Sception]

Honestly, excited as I am by the new CSM stuff, I was personally hoping we'd see proper faction releases for World Eaters, Emperors Children, and a LatD//R&H style traitor guard/mutant horde/cultist army drawing on recent rogue trader & blackstone fortress releases all before a proper generic CSM update.  Had that happened, then the new CSM book could remove world eater & emperor's children subfaction rules, and remove the cultist unit entirely, and use the extra design room that cleared up to rethink the basic CSM rules and units from the ground up.  Maybe bring back veteran skills, or expand the range of available icons & unit upgrades, or just rethink the rules for power armor altogether, because basic marine units being rather painfully subpar isn't a problem exclusive to chaos marines.

 

As it is, even if cultists lose access to stratagems and subfaction rules, I still don't see anything changing in terms of the balance between basic marines and cultists, because the fundamental problem isn't that cultists are too good, it's that basic marines aren't good enough.  Cultists already seem to be mostly garbage, but when your core troop choices are between garbage and also garbage but cheaper, the better choice is always going to be the cheaper garbage, freeing up more points for non-garbage options chosen from other force org slots.

 

But maybe I'm way off base here.  It's not like I've played all that much of 8th edition.

[TrawlingCleaner]

As much as it would be cool to see some detatchments for death guard and thousand sons, I honestly doubt we will. GW have all but clearly said that this is an undivided release and the vigilus book will have undivided attention the forefront. My guess is that these new renegade warbands are fill instead for the legions that will get their own codex as it mirrors the 4 God's. I imagine this is similar to chaos in AoS in that they are under one faction keyword they're separate armies and separate releases. Makes sense that death guard can't use the majority of this new release as CSM can't use bloatdrones etc

[Sception]

black legion preview up on war com:

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/03/18/18th-mar-heretic-astartes-focus-the-black-legiongw-homepage-post-1/

 

New statline for Abby (+1 S, +1 W), new relic (a rather nice looking combi bolter), look at parts of a new specialist detachment (bringers of despair, terminators gain "bringer of despair" keyword, access to a stratagem that makes melee casualties they cause count double for morale test, warlord trait for a hero in the unit lets nearby BoD termies re-roll ones to hit, or any hit rolls if the warlord is a chaos lord, plus an option to give a character the warlord trait even if someone else is your warlord).  Neat stuff, though nothing that seems particularly game changing to me, at least not at first glance.

 

Pics of new terminator models - not too terribly different in design from the current models, but the posing looks significantly better, and the shoulder pad design has the distinctive shape of the DV chosen & new basic CSMs, which I like.  I definitely think they're better than the current chaos terminator models, but not as much better as the new basic CSM models are compared to their current versions.  Not sure if I'll be replacing my existing termies.  If I do, it won't be any time soon, not with all the other stuff to get.

[Closet Skeleton]

Those terminators are pretty disappointing. Will have to see more pics.

 

Article is about as unhelpful as you'd expect. Would probably more helpful if you're someone who hasn't used specialist detachments yet.

 

Sounds like Black Legion are going to be bleeding rerolls to hit and maybe not have much else to actually do damage, especially when we already had a reroll stratagem and two reroll characters.

[Furnace Lord]

I am interested in Abaddon's special rules. I understand that at one time during my period lost in the warp he made Chosen a troops choice. Is that likely again?

[Sception]

Probably not. Possible, mind, but probably not.

 

He's unlikely to change apart from his statline and points cost, which i kind of find unfortunate, as imo the talon of horus should be his many attacks, lower strength anti-crowd weapon while drachnyen should be the few attacks masdive strength and damage anti-big-thing weapon, while currently the exact oppositr is the case.

 

But anyway, his big traits are:

 

+2 cp if he's your general

 

Reroll aura for black legion units

 

Immune to morale aura for csm units in general (particularly great for cultists... sigh)

 

That's the big stuff, but abby's also a personal powerhouse - 2+/4++, impressive statline, silly strong melee weapons. On average any of the primarchs beats him in a one on one fight, but very little else in the game does, and even for the primarchs it's no sure thing, and most of them would prefer to avoid the matchup where possible.

 

He also has all marks of chaos, which allows him to benefit from the fight twice khorne stratagem and any/all of the aligned sorcerer buffs. Give him fnp, a 3++, -1 to be hit, stack on prescience for good measure, and warp-time him into melee out of derp strike, and even primarchs go down. Granted, you've paid more than a primarch at that point between abby and 3+ sorcerers dedicated exclusively to buffing abby, but still.

 

Again, though, the main stuff is the reroll aura, fearless aura, and free cps, and given that that stuff probanly isnt changing while his points cost eill be going up, and in all honesty while he'll still be good, he'll probably be ever so slightly less goid than he was before.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Point of order: you can't Warp Time a unit the turn they deep strike in Matched Play.

[Sception]

What? That was errata'd?

 

*looks it up*

 

Bah, fine was faq'd away. Used to be able to.

Sadly no longer the case. Oh, well.