++ The Bringers of Despair - A Black Legion Community ++

[Sception]

How the heck did i read that that wrong....

[Lord Asvaldir]

An entire round of your opponent being unable to contest objectives? That sounds immensely powerful to me. I have my doubts about if that was the intention, but if the errata doesn't say anything about it man that's a sweet stratagem. 

[Brother Talarian]

So you can contest all objectives on the board as long as you have a black legion model within 3” of it? :o that’s.... glorious. More reason to bring marines instead of cultists then :).

 

I like the thematic of having many legionnaires

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

An entire round of your opponent being unable to contest objectives? That sounds immensely powerful to me. I have my doubts about if that was the intention, but if the errata doesn't say anything about it man that's a sweet stratagem. 

It is 3CP and has to be timed correctly since it's at the start of the battle round and telegraphs your intentions if you haven't planned around that fact.

[Closet Skeleton]

So you can contest all objectives on the board as long as you have a black legion model within 3” of it? that’s.... glorious. More reason to bring marines instead of cultists then .

 

I like the thematic of having many legionnaires

 

Nope, it just disables all abilities like objective secured. A single outnumbered black legion model would still not control the objective unless its from a troops unit.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

 

So you can contest all objectives on the board as long as you have a black legion model within 3” of it? that’s.... glorious. More reason to bring marines instead of cultists then .

 

I like the thematic of having many legionnaires

 

Nope, it just disables all abilities like objective secured. A single outnumbered black legion model would still not control the objective unless its from a troops unit.

 

Also disables all abilities that depend on number of models in the enemy unit. As long as a single Black Legion model is there, all "objective control" abilities turn off. Leaving it with just raw numbers on their side and you still have everything else.

[Closet Skeleton]

 

 

So you can contest all objectives on the board as long as you have a black legion model within 3” of it? that’s.... glorious. More reason to bring marines instead of cultists then .

 

I like the thematic of having many legionnaires

 

Nope, it just disables all abilities like objective secured. A single outnumbered black legion model would still not control the objective unless its from a troops unit.

 

Also disables all abilities that depend on number of models in the enemy unit. As long as a single Black Legion model is there, all "objective control" abilities turn off. Leaving it with just raw numbers on their side and you still have everything else.

 

 

That doesn't sound different from what I was trying to say so despite the "Also" at the start of your post I can't tell if you're trying to disagree or not .World Killers doesn't disable to the ability of models to control objectives, just abilities that grant control of objectives.

 

1. The objective rules for matched play state that the player with the most models with 3" of the center of the objective marker controls the objective.

 

2. Every codex has a rule that grants certain units in battleforged detachments the ability to control markers regardless of the amount of models.

 

3. Said abilities specifies that if two models have similar rules then the two abilities cancel out going back to step 1 but discounting models who don't have such an ability.

 

4. World Killers disables abilities at step 2, so step 1 applies as its entirely about the rules of objective markers and not the rules/abilities of models. If the player using the Black legion stratagem has models with a step 2 ability (either Black Legion troops with the Warmaster's Legion ability or allied troops) then instead you're going from a step 3 situation to a step 2 one.

Edited April 4, 2019 by Closet Skeleton

[Wayniac]

World Killers is only pick a unit isn't it?  It's not army-wide (it would be insane if that was the case).  And just so I'm understanding it doesn't mean they can't contest, it just turns off their Objective Secured equivalent right?  So if you had 1 CSM near an objective and they had let's say 3 Intercessors, with that stratagem (assuming it targeted that 1 CSM) you would control the objective, but if you had 5 Terminators by 10 Guardsmen (assuming they live lol) you would not control it since the Guard, while losing their ObjSec, still outnumber you and you don't have ObjSec, so the default control rules come into play?

[Sception]

Nah, its army wide. Some of us, myself included, read it wrong because, yeah, its kind of crazy. But you activate it at the start of the battle round, and until the end of the battle round all your black legion units project an absec cancelling aura, while maintaining their own obsec ability if any.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

 

 

 

 

 

 

So you can contest all objectives on the board as long as you have a black legion model within 3” of it? that’s.... glorious. More reason to bring marines instead of cultists then .

 

I like the thematic of having many legionnaires

Nope, it just disables all abilities like objective secured. A single outnumbered black legion model would still not control the objective unless its from a troops unit.

Also disables all abilities that depend on number of models in the enemy unit. As long as a single Black Legion model is there, all "objective control" abilities turn off. Leaving it with just raw numbers on their side and you still have everything else.

That doesn't sound different from what I was trying to say so despite the "Also" at the start of your post I can't tell if you're trying to disagree or not .World Killers doesn't disable to the ability of models to control objectives, just abilities that grant control of objectives.

 

1. The objective rules for matched play state that the player with the most models with 3" of the center of the objective marker controls the objective.

 

2. Every codex has a rule that grants certain units in battleforged detachments the ability to control markers regardless of the amount of models.

 

3. Said abilities specifies that if two models have similar rules then the two abilities cancel out going back to step 1 but discounting models who don't have such an ability.

 

4. World Killers disables abilities at step 2, so step 1 applies as its entirely about the rules of objective markers and not the rules/abilities of models. If the player using the Black legion stratagem has models with a step 2 ability (either Black Legion troops with the Warmaster's Legion ability or allied troops) then instead you're going from a step 3 situation to a step 2 one.

There are also abilities that increase the number of models in the unit for the purposes of objective control (Infernal Quest from Renegade Knights makes the Knight count as 10 models). WK appears to cancel those too and that's what I was referring to. Not saying you are incorrect.

[Furnace Lord]

This could play into our Dark Crusaders trait. Rushing for an objective while still being able to use bolters.

[Brother Talarian]

Exactly what I’m thinking Furnace :)

Follow-up question.

 

Would a unit of 20 be able to hold 2 objectives with this? Or are units still limited to holding one objective?

 

I’m like big units of 20 more and more now

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

Exactly what I’m thinking Furnace

Follow-up question.

 

Would a unit of 20 be able to hold 2 objectives with this? Or are units still limited to holding one objective?

 

I’m like big units of 20 more and more now

I don't see anything in any of the current missions where a given unit can only hold one objective, and most objective rules in missions seem to discuss models rather than units, but I could have missed something. Anyone else got more info?

This could play into our Dark Crusaders trait. Rushing for an objective while still being able to use bolters.

 

It's almost like the current author compensated for the mediocre trait by actually giving it something important to do. :)

[Charlo]

So is the Black Legion trait any good?

 

It doesn't seem it, especially in a world where the beta bolter rule exists. +1Ld is nice but still. Eh?

[Brother Talarian]

I don’t see how it’s horrible either, though. If you need to move, and potentially a or further, you can advance and still shoot.

 

Is it the best one out there, no, but usless, imo no

[Furnace Lord]

Also, undivided icon on unmarked troops, big leadership boost.

[Sception]

So is the Black Legion trait any good?

As a rule? No. If you don't absolutely need to run, then this trait foesnt make doing so a good option, as you loose way too much firepower with the -1 to hit on top of not being able to double tap. A drastic decrese in ranged offense in exchange for what might only be a single extra inch of movement is just not a great trade.

 

The trait is only worth using at all if you did absolutely need to run, either to make it into range for a last second objective grab or because there was nothing in range or line of sight otherwise. Even then, though, the light scattering of inaccurate shots you'll get are unlikely to make much of a difference compared to just not shooting at all.

 

It's not at all the worst legion trait, and our strats, relics, warlord traits, and special character more than make up for it, imo. I don't mean to project too much negativity here. And you don't want to forget you have it when you do run. Just dont let the trait trick you into running when you shouldn't - which is basically in most situations.

[Furnace Lord]

I wonder if the obsec denial opens opportunities for mind games. For example, I know one of the Genestealer cults gets a deny stratagem power....knowing you can do this might make them hold it in reserve in expectation of countering this....sorry, the gears in my head are spinning :p

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

I wonder if the obsec denial opens opportunities for mind games. For example, I know one of the Genestealer cults gets a deny stratagem power....knowing you can do this might make them hold it in reserve in expectation of countering this....sorry, the gears in my head are spinning

Nothing to apologize for. Stratagem guessing games are yet another level of game that's played at the table, and yes, this has some potential in that department, as does Punishing Volley.

[Brother Aiwass]

 

I wonder if the obsec denial opens opportunities for mind games. For example, I know one of the Genestealer cults gets a deny stratagem power....knowing you can do this might make them hold it in reserve in expectation of countering this....sorry, the gears in my head are spinning

Nothing to apologize for. Stratagem guessing games are yet another level of game that's played at the table, and yes, this has some potential in that department, as does Punishing Volley.

 

Psy-ops making the opponent to make bad moves or assumpions, restrict their movement, change plans are good. Nice to meet you, Alpharius!

[Closet Skeleton]

Black Crusaders is a 'miss it when you don't have it' ability rather than an ability worth relying on for anything.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

 

 

I wonder if the obsec denial opens opportunities for mind games. For example, I know one of the Genestealer cults gets a deny stratagem power....knowing you can do this might make them hold it in reserve in expectation of countering this....sorry, the gears in my head are spinning

Nothing to apologize for. Stratagem guessing games are yet another level of game that's played at the table, and yes, this has some potential in that department, as does Punishing Volley.

 

Psy-ops making the opponent to make bad moves or assumpions, restrict their movement, change plans are good. Nice to meet you, Alpharius!

 

Hilariously, Legio XX are one of the few CSM factions I have no army for. Thousand Sons, The Scourged, and Sons of the Cyclops will have to do in that department.

[Furnace Lord]

 

 

I wonder if the obsec denial opens opportunities for mind games. For example, I know one of the Genestealer cults gets a deny stratagem power....knowing you can do this might make them hold it in reserve in expectation of countering this....sorry, the gears in my head are spinning

Nothing to apologize for. Stratagem guessing games are yet another level of game that's played at the table, and yes, this has some potential in that department, as does Punishing Volley.

 

Psy-ops making the opponent to make bad moves or assumpions, restrict their movement, change plans are good. Nice to meet you, Alpharius!

 

Wait....I am Alpharius? I mean, I am Alpharius!

[Excessus]

'Chaos lord in terminator armor' and 'chaos sorcerer in terminator armor' are both 'terminator' units, per their keywords.

 

Ah, I see. Nevermind me then. :)

[olsol]

What do you guys think the sightless helm is best used on? I think it's pretty bloody deadly on the Lord Discordant