General Discussion Secundus

[Kelborn]

I never wrote that they (Tanya'ba) were threatened by the Ke'mano. Tanya'ba was discovered by the 8th brotherhood and joined their campaign of bringing worlds into compliance.

 

Afterwards, they discovered Kaijo and its Knight Households who were facing extinction because of the native xenos race and the suppressed Ke'mano. The 8th and (reckoned) Gojira support the last, great Household.

 

But I'm digging the idea of the Ke'mano being ancient bio-weapons which went wrong and turned into a separate species. This would explain why the Ke'mano differ so heavily from one another.

[bluntblade]

I think we'd need Gojira to have been mired in war against them too to explain why they got so strange.

[Talonair]

Does anyone know how Imperial sensors work? Specifically, can they detect objects before the light from that object reaches the sensor, and beyond Astropathic communication is there any way of sending information faster than light? I ask because I had a thought; A system's Mandeville point is typically a long distance from the system's star(s) due to the gravity well interfering with safe warp travel. Obviously, a warp translation into the system would be detected by astropaths in the system, however if faster-than-light detection is not possible then an attacking force already has a significant advantage; They will be able to see the defenders hours (at the very least) before the defenders see the attackers. This gives the attackers time to analyse the exact composition of the defending fleet, spot defense platforms (that aren't otherwise hidden) and planet-bound anti-orbital weapons. Depending on weapons being used, they'd also be able to get torpedos in the 'water', laser blasts firing etc.

 

All this means that if the Imperium does not have FTL sensor systems, then by the time the defenders are able to actually 'see' the attacking fleet, the first volley of lasers from the attackers will be hitting the defenders

[TheBlindPrimarch]

Hey guys, I know it's not one of the Legions but I'm looking for some love for the Heredes from the group since they're my only solid contribution to the project aside from the writing I've been doing.

I've got a couple ideas to increase the importance of the Heredes in the BotL universe if anyone is interested in hearing them.

Feedback would be highly appreciated

[MikhalLeNoir]

Hey guys, I know it's not one of the Legions but I'm looking for some love for the Heredes from the group since they're my only solid contribution to the project aside from the writing I've been doing.

I've got a couple ideas to increase the importance of the Heredes in the BotL universe if anyone is interested in hearing them.

Feedback would be highly appreciated

Enlighten us^^

 

I think as their light will really shine as soon as they are in the books. Nut what ideas do you have?

[simison]

Hey guys, I know it's not one of the Legions but I'm looking for some love for the Heredes from the group since they're my only solid contribution to the project aside from the writing I've been doing.

I've got a couple ideas to increase the importance of the Heredes in the BotL universe if anyone is interested in hearing them.

Feedback would be highly appreciated

 

I would certainly like to hear them. I'm a little uncertain about making the Heredes the best Anti-astartes regiment, as mentioned in the PM, but I'm willing to hear your pitch. Certainly, given we are talking about an entire planet/system, I'm open to expanding their role. 

[bluntblade]

Wouldn't be adverse to doing regiments, Titan Legions and Mechanicus Sects for the fluff challenge - once the more urgent Astartes work is done.

[Sigismund229]

 

 

Hey guys, I know it's not one of the Legions but I'm looking for some love for the Heredes from the group since they're my only solid contribution to the project aside from the writing I've been doing.

I've got a couple ideas to increase the importance of the Heredes in the BotL universe if anyone is interested in hearing them.

Feedback would be highly appreciated

I would certainly like to hear them. I'm a little uncertain about making the Heredes the best Anti-astartes regiment, as mentioned in the PM, but I'm willing to hear your pitch. Certainly, given we are talking about an entire planet/system, I'm open to expanding their role.

We could veer away from saying best. That always annoyed me, when GW started talking about the Cadians as what every Guard regiment strives to be. So, instead of making any assertion that the Heredes are the best anti-astartes unit, we could shift the emphasis towards things like "most numerous" or "most famed", that kind of area.

[bluntblade]

Looking through the FW books, I think we ought to keep in mind that the main thing the Army fought was other Army units. Generally they didn't make a habit of fighting Astartes in the Heresy, and while there's more of the Insurrection, that rule will still apply.

 

Also, we ought to consider more than the shoulder-breaker. Conquest has the Solar using converters for their lasguns which stop a Cybernetiica army dead, and there's also the matter of Rapier gun platforms and the like.

[TheBlindPrimarch]

OK, so a couple ideas I've had are as follows...

 

-Rather than have Xander Purechild die at the conclusion of the "Battle of Carrion Hill" as planned, I've decided it would be better to do as Sims suggested and have him play a part in Travier's plans. However I had another thought that I'd like your guy's opinion on...What if Travier corrupted Xander into serving Slaanesh? It doesn't seem like there is a member of the BotL devoted to Slaanesh (Correct me if I'm wrong) but seems like Xander would be the perfect candidate for that role. After all, his planet's entire culture is based around the idea that mankind has already reached perfection, and he believes he is the greatest among them, next to the Emperor.  Now I don't think the Heredes should follow him into corruption, he could be put in charge of a war-band or something, but it's an idea.

 

-While I agree that it would be a little too much for the Heredes to be the premier Anti-Astartes force (though they might claim it regardless) I think they could be the most well known and considering how fast Vasalius can churn out regiments the Heredes could also possible the most widely deployed force from a single system.

 

-I have an idea for a character to replace Xander after his fall that essentially fills the role of Macharius from the canon universe, an unrivaled tactician and charismatic leader that leads the Heredes in victory after victory and maybe (Now don't kill me for suggesting this) even manages to at least hold off an Astartes advance long enough for loyalist Astartes to arrive.

 

-Ultimately what I'm thinking is that the Heredes have the traits and equipment to be real players in the conflict raging across the galaxy, even in a galaxy full of super humans. I think it's important that we have a normal human force that plays an important role, even if they lose most of the time.

Of course I'm open to further ideas if anyone has any to offer.

[bluntblade]

I'd use them against the traitor Army quite a bit too, as well as perhaps enemy Taghmata. Gives us a chance to do a Legion or a Conquest and look beyond the Astartes.

[MikhalLeNoir]

The drowned become slaves of she who thirsts. The just follow more the soul eater aspect.

[Sigismund229]

Right, looking at your suggestions Blind, here's my feedback

 

- We do actually have a BotL member devoted to Slaanesh, it's the Drowned

 

-I don't think we should have a Macharius character just yet because, apart from anything else, he'd be overshadowed by the primarchs still whereas a Macharius character should, IMO, dominate the stage. Perhaps, rather than a Macharius figure, we could tie this into Alex releasing the Lectitio Divinatus and turn Xander's successor into an especially devout preacher who is able to inspire the Imperial Army and perhaps spawns a radical sect of the Imperial faith?

 

- I'd have no problem with the Heredes being the most numerous Imperial Army units from a single system. Although perhaps their pride in their abilities and their self proclaimed preeminence in the anti-astartes field could rub a lot of their fellow Imperial Army regiments the wrong way, in the same kind of way as US troops are known for sometimes doing.

 

- Agreed on the importance of showing how vital the Imperial Army is to the war efforts of both sides. Speaking of which, I agree with blunt. Perhaps we should orient some of the sub-books towards the efforts not just of the Heredes but of the Imperial Army as a whole. However, wrt the having the gear to fight the legions, I think you can go too far with that. We need to keep in mind that the Imperial Army is arming tens, if not hundreds, of millions of pretty hastily raised troops, probably conscripts in a lot of cases, whose life expectancy won't be brilliant, especially not going up against legionaries. So the gear they're going to be given will be cheap and easy to maintain, ruling out the fancier bits of gear.

 

Now a suggestion:

- A relatively unsnowflakey way of raising the Heredes up to be something more than a typical group of regiments would be if they were 100% volunteer. I imagine that after the opening few years of the Insurrection volunteers would be hard to come by and so the vast majority of troops would be conscripted. If the Heredes stayed volunteer, that would help show their fanatical loyalty to the Emperor as well as provide a reason for them being a relatively elite group of regiments(they're better motivated). I'd liken it to the ANZACs, Irish, South Africans and Indians in the British army in WW1. While they weren't as numerous as "mainland" British troops, they had a better reputation for their ability as soldiers due to the fact that unlike the British(after 1916 at any rate) they were all still volunteers.

 

And as an aside: lads, someone beat us to it

]

Edited September 11, 2017 by Sigismund229

[simison]

- ...in the same kind of way as US troops are known for sometimes doing.

 

Hey! We can't help but be awesome!

 

Anyway, I mostly agree with Sig's points. What I do want to clarify is my idea involving Travier. Instead of simply being executed by Raktra at the end of Carrion Hill, Travier arranges Purechild to become an ingredient in his ritual to create a Daemon Prince. I didn't actually suggest that Purechild embraces Chaos, only that his death comes with much more pain, ritual, and purpose. 

 

Also, I think the Battle of Carrion Hill could be Book 2B in the Blood Crusade trilogy, if you're welling, Sig.

[Sigismund229]

 

 

- ...in the same kind of way as US troops are known for sometimes doing.

Hey! We can't help but be awesome!

Whatever helps you sleep sim :P

 

Also, I think the Battle of Carrion Hill could be Book 2B in the Blood Crusade trilogy, if you're welling, Sig.

I still need to decide how the precise break down of Escalation into a trilogy will work and I see no reason that the Battle of Carrion Hill shouldn't be focussed upon. Thinking about it, Book 4A could cover the Blood Crusade up until Gidion Rift or a bit after, while Book 4C could cover the height of the Blood Crusade and culminate with Cadia. Meanwhile, 4B could cover the battle of Carrion Hill and focus only on that, in much the same way as in Book 3 or one of it's sub books, the focus will be on Delos.

 

I've also now got an image of a bunch of SA troops in a trench firing volleys at advancing Berserkers of Uran...

[bluntblade]

For Book 3, the Insurrectionist advance is three-pronged in the broadest sense, right?

 

Remind me who we're introducing there - I believe we said Warbringers as they face the Scions after demolishing several armies. Loyal Predators? I feel we ought to give the Harbingers a big outing.

Edited September 11, 2017 by bluntblade

[Sigismund229]

For Book 3, the Insurrectionist advance is three-pronged in the broadest sense, right?

 

Remind me who we're introducing there - I believe we said Warbringers as they face the Scions after demolishing several armies. Loyal Predators? I feel we ought to give the Harbingers a big outing.

If the First Solar war has stayed how I envisioned it when I first suggested it, the Harbingers are the tip of the spear.

 

My idea was that Icarion had kept the Harbingers out of the worst of the fighting up until he decided it was time to launch his push on Terra, at which point the Harbingers became his vanguard, with the Warbringers and Eagle Warriors coming up behind them.

Edited September 11, 2017 by Sigismund229

[simison]

For Book 3, the Insurrectionist advance is three-pronged in the broadest sense, right?

 

Remind me who we're introducing there - I believe we said Warbringers as they face the Scions after demolishing several armies. Loyal Predators? I feel we ought to give the Harbingers a big outing.

 

In the timeline thread, I suggested that the invasion begins as a massive echelon assault, starting with the Southern Front which has Pionus leading the Loyalists with Yucahu as his second against Kozja with Koschei as his second.

 

Then the Central Front which has the greatest strength with Icarion in command, supported by K'awil and Raktra versus Niklaas.

 

In the Northern Front, Alexandros is forced to deploy himself in opposition to Travier and Morro. Hectarion eventually arrives and deals the blow that collapses Icarion's right flank. 

 

Andezo is in the East, but there will be Predator units involved. 

[Sigismund229]

I started pondering the Imperial faith and I think I got a bit carried away...

 

Accursed is the coward who states he has no more to give the Emperor. No matter whether young or old, weak or strong, man or woman, rich or poor, all can give their lives to the Emperor! For it is by his mercy that we live and so in his service we must die!

- Verse (?) Chapter (?), Book of Vasalius

 

If all is lost to you, if you lose everything you held dear, view it not as a tragedy but as a blessing! In his eternal mercy, the Emperor has taken notice of you and showed you the way in which you should serve him! For a man with nothing to lose is a man with endless courage and it is these men whom the Emperor most values! Not the worker in the factorum or the labourer on a farm but the brave man with a lasgun in his hand! When you have lost all and had your courage so bolstered, the Emperor has shown you which you must be!

- Verse (?), Chapter (?), Book of Vasalius

 

Without our duty to the Emperor, we are nothing! In his eternal mercy, the Emperor gave us duty and in doing so gave our lives meaning! It for this reason that duty ends only in death, for it is only in death that we cease to need duty! So take up the lasgun, wrench and plough, go to your duty with joy and give thanks to the Emperor for he has given your life a purpose!

- Verse (?), Chapter (?), Book of Vasalius

 

Shed your family, shed your home, shed all luxury! These things are nought but weights, preventing you from fulfilling your duty to the Emperor! In their place, take up the lasgun, affix the bayonet and march forth to war! It is by war that the mutant is purged and xeno exterminated! It is by war that the Emperor's realm is kept safe!

- Verse (?), Chapter (?), Book of Vasalius

 

When the odds are against you and death seems certain take heart! You are about to join the ranks of blessed martyrs, by whose blood the Imperium is kept safe! So, charge forth with courage and roar your battle cries with joy! Lay your head down to the eternal rest of death and smile! When you awaken, it shall be at the Emperor's side!

- Verse (?), Chapter (?), Book of Vasalius

[simison]

Well, you had fun. That reminds me about the theological perspectives about the Primarchs I had started way back. I should remember to finish that before we finish the Scouring.

[simison]

Trying to lock down some numbers to a reasonable degree. Roll call:

 

Warbringers: 160,000  - Unknown
Wardens of Light: 157,000 - Unknown
Predators: 130,000 - Unknown
Dune Serpents: 97,000 - Unknown
Jade Legion: 30,000 - Unknown
Grave Stalkers: 10,000 - Unknown
 

Did any of these Legions accept or reject the bonus troops from the 30-year Great Crusade extension? Drak, Grifft, would you be alright if we multiplied your Legion by 2x or 3x? 

[MikhalLeNoir]

The Wardens haven't used their bonus and I don't think they need it. They are one if the only legions regaining their DoR Numbers and mildy increase them even. It has some benefits to stay out of a full scale brotherwar.

 

How many marines can you create in 20 years? Possible candidates arrive with the refugees.

[Sigismund229]

The Wardens haven't used their bonus and I don't think they need it. They are one if the only legions regaining their DoR Numbers and mildy increase them even. It has some benefits to stay out of a full scale brotherwar.

 

How many marines can you create in 20 years? Possible candidates arrive with the refugees.

When I was doing SWAGs for the loyalist legions, I guessed the WoL could create 19,000 legionaries in 19 years, taking into account the refugees.

[Kelborn]

Haven't intended to give the Preds this bonus until now but I don't think that they need it.

They were able to keep their numbers stable, although being on constant war for quite a time. The Eastern campaign will be the turning point after which the Preds are struggeling to keep up their numbers. While being slowly dwindling in numbers, Terra is the final blow. Only a couple of thousands survived Terra.

 

Giving them more Marines would make it a bit more difficult to let them fracture in numerous, smaller factions. The biggest surviving groups would be the "Black Raiders" and the Storm Blades, followed by the Warbeasts. Rest is on warband level.

[MikhalLeNoir]

 

The Wardens haven't used their bonus and I don't think they need it. They are one if the only legions regaining their DoR Numbers and mildy increase them even. It has some benefits to stay out of a full scale brotherwar.

How many marines can you create in 20 years? Possible candidates arrive with the refugees.

When I was doing SWAGs for the loyalist legions, I guessed the WoL could create 19,000 legionaries in 19 years, taking into account the refugees.

Okay. I thought 30k was realistic. So the wardens get close to rheir former numbers. So if they return to the frontlines we have about 156.000 marines on the march.