Banjulhu Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 The Boys in Black do seem to have the better deal with the unit sysnergies. Helbrech, Grimaldus and the Emperor's Champion do seem to be a match made in heaven for a black tide list.On the subject of Emperor Worshiping I do think the change in 5th ed to the Templar being full on worshippers of the Emperor makes sense thematically. It's quite hard to walk around all the time claiming X to be Holy, Y to be Heretical, Z to be Blessed whilst being full on atheists and dedicates to the Imperial Truth like the Adeptus Astartes still are.Once that simple change was in place it makes sense that the unease and distrust that chapters have regarding the Black Templar that has always been part of the older fluff comes not from the zealous recklesness that the Templar exhibit but the religious beliefs that makes them zealous. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330588-8th-edition-zeal-rising/page/50/#findComment-4763526 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Christopher Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 I miss a bit of psyker hatred in that bit of fluff. Not only rogue and xenos psykers. All of them that are not members of the Inquisition and even those are kept a close eye on. There is no exception to purity. Also the text lacks a hint at the fraternity, the ad hoc battle companies and squads. You only get so much into one page i guess... Don't miss it. Most of us here (all?) remain this fun, intolerant, witch-hating bunch who uphold the Codex: Black Templars tradition. The fluff is real, and there's a testament to it in this sub-forum (If you're longing for the hatred, just browse the chronicles of You know you're a Black Templar when.... ):P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330588-8th-edition-zeal-rising/page/50/#findComment-4763546 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooj Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 As I am looking at the new rules, it does seem like Honour guard one of best cc units is gone? Only thing they can do is now die instead of character...And Standard bearer does not add +1 attack and is very overcosted I would say. I think thats kind of sad. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330588-8th-edition-zeal-rising/page/50/#findComment-4763564 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Wolfhart Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 I miss a bit of psyker hatred in that bit of fluff. Not only rogue and xenos psykers. All of them that are not members of the Inquisition and even those are kept a close eye on. There is no exception to purity. Also the text lacks a hint at the fraternity, the ad hoc battle companies and squads. You only get so much into one page i guess... Don't miss it. Most of us here (all?) remain this fun, intolerant, witch-hating bunch who uphold the Codex: Black Templars tradition. The fluff is real, and there's a testament to it in this sub-forum (If you're longing for the hatred, just browse the chronicles of You know you're a Black Templar when.... ) Oh of course the fluff is there. If noone else would uphold it, it would be my head canon. BUT there are still lesser chapters out there that might not know and even lesser beings and neophytes that will know nothing of us but what they get presented there. And while i fully enjoy teaching others it can become a chore after enough runs of the same Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330588-8th-edition-zeal-rising/page/50/#findComment-4763579 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kastor Krieg Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 My head canon is that all the fluff is written from the perspective of an unreliable narrator. Therefore the "God-worshipping Templars whom we should not trust" is a misconception by those who do not understand the Zeal of the Black Brethren. Same with the psyker hatred, those astropaths whom reportedly the Templars have bent knee to? What were they to say back on Terra that we chained them and treated them like the obnoxious tools they are? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330588-8th-edition-zeal-rising/page/50/#findComment-4763595 Share on other sites More sharing options...
balordazul Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 Wait the chapter master rule will work with the LRC too! Hmmm will it work with it while he is inside also? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330588-8th-edition-zeal-rising/page/50/#findComment-4763612 Share on other sites More sharing options...
d3m01iti0n Posted May 31, 2017 Author Share Posted May 31, 2017 What is said Chapter Master rule, and does it include and Orbital Bombardment? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330588-8th-edition-zeal-rising/page/50/#findComment-4763615 Share on other sites More sharing options...
balordazul Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 You may re-roll any failed hit rolls for friendly BT units within 6" of Helbrecht. You choose the chapter when making the army and it fills in across the key word slots of the data sheets. So we are using BT and all of our units that have the <Chapter> key word will replace that with BT allowing the characters to use the aura buffs. Also the Ironclad looks good at T8 and the hammer it has dones 2x S -4ap D 5. No for the bombard but he is beast in cc and a huge buffer to the army. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330588-8th-edition-zeal-rising/page/50/#findComment-4763634 Share on other sites More sharing options...
d3m01iti0n Posted May 31, 2017 Author Share Posted May 31, 2017 Okay, I got it. I thought keyword <Chapter Master> had its own generic ruleset for CMs in addition to their individual ruleset. Like Chapter Masters do THIS. HMH is a CM so he does his own stuff in addition to being a CM. I guess his Vox link to the Eternal Crusader is still on the fritz. Really needs to have a tech priest look at that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330588-8th-edition-zeal-rising/page/50/#findComment-4763643 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Christopher Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 And what are your thoughts about Drop Pods? They seem pretty over-costed now (103 points), considering that you have to be 9" away from enemies and you cannot transport Dreadnoughts or Terminators. I must be missing something, but Drop Pods seem to me like a waste of points, as the deep strike ability itself doesn't seem to warrant the cost of an immobile 'vehicle'. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330588-8th-edition-zeal-rising/page/50/#findComment-4763651 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal_Roujakis Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 Wait... what? Drop Pods cannot transport Dreadnoughts? But that has been happening since 4th ed. I highly doubt that would be the case now... I mean yeah sure a lot of things are now different... but Dreadnoughts have always had the option to take Drop Pods since Drop Pods became a model all on their own... And Drop Pods still have their uses... otherwise, how am I going to pack all 5 Multimeltas on an instant "In-your-face" delivery system... Rhinos are sturdy, but if they run out of Wounds those are Mortal Wounds that's going to kill my Sword Brethren... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330588-8th-edition-zeal-rising/page/50/#findComment-4763661 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciler Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 And what are your thoughts about Drop Pods? They seem pretty over-costed now (103 points), considering that you have to be 9" away from enemies and you cannot transport Dreadnoughts or Terminators. I must be missing something, but Drop Pods seem to me like a waste of points, as the deep strike ability itself doesn't seem to warrant the cost of an immobile 'vehicle'. I myself think the pricing is consistent. We don't have all information, but I assume that pods will arrive T1, and will present less risk than teleporting, and will therefore be VERY reliable. Also keep in mind that you are now able to shoot heavy weapons and/or charge after exiting a drop pod, which makes them a very potent tool. The pricing however, will make some of the old configurations unadvisable. A minima sternguard sword brethren squad with meltas will become horrendously expensive, and will not garantee popping a vehicle. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330588-8th-edition-zeal-rising/page/50/#findComment-4763674 Share on other sites More sharing options...
balordazul Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 Hell never mind I just double checked it they can not transport them. It looks like the storm raven is the only option to get your dread close. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330588-8th-edition-zeal-rising/page/50/#findComment-4763676 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewChristlieb Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 20 man squads with a Sword Brother appear to be a thing now. I don't see a requirement of one Neophyte per Initiate anywhere, just you can have 5 (or 10) Initiates, 5 (or 10) Neophytes and one Initiate can be a Sword Brother. Also looks like maybe 10 Neophyte, 5 Initite may be a thing? Wierd Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330588-8th-edition-zeal-rising/page/50/#findComment-4763724 Share on other sites More sharing options...
d3m01iti0n Posted May 31, 2017 Author Share Posted May 31, 2017 10 Neos/5 Initiates could be a nice cheap objective holder. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330588-8th-edition-zeal-rising/page/50/#findComment-4763743 Share on other sites More sharing options...
balordazul Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 Now with that new larger dread coming out soon we might also see a larger drop pod added to SM to transport dreads. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330588-8th-edition-zeal-rising/page/50/#findComment-4763747 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysere Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 So having gone through the leaks for marines. Grimaldus is going to quite fun no doubt, makes us one of the few armies that are able to generate additional attacks, and servitors are dirt cheap they also have a great bonus that forces them to be priority targets. Helbrecht will be mean hanging with assault units as he should. Our champion is basically rerolling everything when doing his job. Honor guard are taken in pairs and there is almost no reason to not take a banner or champion now. Feel like the better choice for sword brethren rather than vanguard. Apothecary still doesn't get options but are much more useful than now. Normal captains lose access to artifcer armor which is kind of lame but the overall increase in wounds and the changes to ap I'm not entirely annoyed. One of my captains will probably just become my chapter champion now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330588-8th-edition-zeal-rising/page/50/#findComment-4763762 Share on other sites More sharing options...
d3m01iti0n Posted May 31, 2017 Author Share Posted May 31, 2017 What are the Apothecary rules? Can he be taken alone? All the Tide needs now is a defensive buff on top of all that offense. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330588-8th-edition-zeal-rising/page/50/#findComment-4763778 Share on other sites More sharing options...
balordazul Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 So having gone through the leaks for marines. Grimaldus is going to quite fun no doubt, makes us one of the few armies that are able to generate additional attacks, and servitors are dirt cheap they also have a great bonus that forces them to be priority targets. Helbrecht will be mean hanging with assault units as he should. Our champion is basically rerolling everything when doing his job. Honor guard are taken in pairs and there is almost no reason to not take a banner or champion now. Feel like the better choice for sword brethren rather than vanguard. Apothecary still doesn't get options but are much more useful than now. Normal captains lose access to artifcer armor which is kind of lame but the overall increase in wounds and the changes to ap I'm not entirely annoyed. One of my captains will probably just become my chapter champion now. You know that Apothecary can heal d3 wounds to a infantry or biker unit within 3" so any character can be healed up a bit. I consider them a auto include in a character driven army. Yes he is character and unit of 1. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330588-8th-edition-zeal-rising/page/50/#findComment-4763785 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysere Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 What are the Apothecary rules? Can he be taken alone? All the Tide needs now is a defensive buff on top of all that offense. All banners, apothecaries, champions, etc are now multi wound solo characters. The apothecary rule restores wounds rather than preventing them. If the unit is one wound models you restore a models not wounds. Might just be single, didn't read the rule super closely. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330588-8th-edition-zeal-rising/page/50/#findComment-4763794 Share on other sites More sharing options...
d3m01iti0n Posted May 31, 2017 Author Share Posted May 31, 2017 Hmmm so what I'm wondering is he ONLY d3 wounds to a character, or d3 to ANYTHING, like healing d3 Neos in a Crusader squad, thereby bringing your ablative wounds back to life. Funny because I noticed earlier that Grim no longer has IWND but this alleviates that. So geeked on 8ed right now. I've been in a 40K funk for so long but this has me chomping at the bit to buy, paint, and play. GeeDub is on the ball. What is the banner buff? Sorry to ask but I found the pages on imgur to be blurry. A quasi non-unit dethstar of our HQs with an Apothecary surrounded by Black Tide (or riding LRCs, points permitting) seems very strong now and fluffy, and any sort of CC buff from a banner is icing on the cake. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330588-8th-edition-zeal-rising/page/50/#findComment-4763814 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewChristlieb Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 Our own little triumvirate is looking pretty insane together. As mentioned earlier the EC with Helbretch is rocking Strength 8 and 5 attacks within 1" of a character or 7 and 4 otherwise. Helbrecht get 4+d3 attacks on the charge at strength 6 Grimaldus only gets 3 attacks, but at strength 6 also with Helbrecht. To top it all off each to hit roll of 6 gives them a bouns attack... all attacks either a set 2 or d3... Zeal rising. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330588-8th-edition-zeal-rising/page/50/#findComment-4763835 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewChristlieb Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 Hmmm so what I'm wondering is he ONLY d3 wounds to a character, or d3 to ANYTHING, like healing d3 Neos in a Crusader squad, thereby bringing your ablative wounds back to life. Funny because I noticed earlier that Grim no longer has IWND but this alleviates that. So geeked on 8ed right now. I've been in a 40K funk for so long but this has me chomping at the bit to buy, paint, and play. GeeDub is on the ball. What is the banner buff? Sorry to ask but I found the pages on imgur to be blurry. A quasi non-unit dethstar of our HQs with an Apothecary surrounded by Black Tide (or riding LRCs, points permitting) seems very strong now and fluffy, and any sort of CC buff from a banner is icing on the cake. Company and chapter banner both look the same +1 all leadership within 6", any friendly model within 6" that is killed makes one last shooting or melee attack on a 4+ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330588-8th-edition-zeal-rising/page/50/#findComment-4763848 Share on other sites More sharing options...
d3m01iti0n Posted May 31, 2017 Author Share Posted May 31, 2017 Meh. But understandable to nerf it when you can take him alone without an Honor Guard tax. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330588-8th-edition-zeal-rising/page/50/#findComment-4763856 Share on other sites More sharing options...
balordazul Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 Hmmm so what I'm wondering is he ONLY d3 wounds to a character, or d3 to ANYTHING, like healing d3 Neos in a Crusader squad, thereby bringing your ablative wounds back to life. Funny because I noticed earlier that Grim no longer has IWND but this alleviates that. So geeked on 8ed right now. I've been in a 40K funk for so long but this has me chomping at the bit to buy, paint, and play. GeeDub is on the ball. What is the banner buff? Sorry to ask but I found the pages on imgur to be blurry. A quasi non-unit dethstar of our HQs with an Apothecary surrounded by Black Tide (or riding LRCs, points permitting) seems very strong now and fluffy, and any sort of CC buff from a banner is icing on the cake. It can be to units also but they mush be infantry or biker type units. So you can help support Centurions like talked about in the GW blog the other day. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330588-8th-edition-zeal-rising/page/50/#findComment-4763892 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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