d3m01iti0n Posted March 8, 2017 Author Share Posted March 8, 2017 I find it quite bizarre that BT seemed to be setup as a popular chapter, with the upgrade sprue, special characters, codex, representation in Space Marine, their own game via the cancelled Dark Millennium, a spotlight in Fall of Cadia, just to get cropped on. It's like they're constantly thrown a bone just to have it buried. GWs stance towards customers in the past, specifically our own chapter forced me out of the hobby. I came back after noticing renewed fan interaction and the prospect of a big BT push. Bought my old army back, bought new models, began my investment anew. This is just depressing. As a company, why would you not push a product? Even if BT isn't currently selling well (which was a self fulfilling prophecy by rolling their codex), why would you not encourage their product by making them look badass rather than chumps? These guys are badass, you want to buy them. It's a literal bolter round to their own foot to piss off the fanbase. But hey, Crimson Slaughter is there if you want it. Because they're so cool and worth a dex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330588-8th-edition-zeal-rising/page/6/#findComment-4677385 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal_Roujakis Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 What is everyone's overblown beef with this... 40k should be grimdark... not a time of heroes... I actually understand Amalrich kneeling down to Calgar, after all he is a Chapter Master... when those Ultramarines went to the Mortifactors main Chapter Keep the Smurf Captain kneeled to the Mortifactors Chapter Master as a sign of respect... this usually happens with 40k lore for those who are Captains or below, to bow or give some sort of sign of respect towards another Chapters Chapter Master. If Amalrich kneeled to Sicarius then I would have lost it... As for Emperor's Champions not killing anything, depending on who wrote the story on who would have died... technically Amalrich dealt the defining blow to Skarbrand in this one... if he didn't lodge the sword to the Daemons chest, then Guilliman's head would be on the Skull Throne by now... Cadia's Emperor's Champion wasn't even named... the Emperor's Champion in Gods of Mars didn't kill anyone spectacular either, but he died in the last ditch effort to annihilate the planet... Bayard, Emperor have mercy on his soul, never killed anyone spectacular either, he died with a spear in his throat and all the challenges were met and answered by Grimaldus during Helsreach... The job of the Emperor's Champion isn't to be spectacular, it's quite the opposite, their job is to be bound in duty, absolute iron-clad duty, to perform what the Emperor told him to do during his vision and to do it well... seeing that Amalrich didn't get a vision from the Emperor, he's not legitimately the Emperor's Champion... he's sort of... proxy... And like I mentioned, 40k is grim-dark, don't be surprised if certain people or characters die off screen... Cador died off screen... Gen. Sarren died off screen... even Artarion died off screen... this usually happens when the galaxy that you live in is usually shook by death and the laughter of thirsting gods... besides, Guilliman isn't the end all be all... he was almost beheaded on the first day of his job... he got controlled similar to Amalrich and it took a "titanic" force of will just to walk away... If the 40k universe had Templar victories left-right and center, then it wouldn't be in the poop-storm that it is in now... edit: Bayard Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330588-8th-edition-zeal-rising/page/6/#findComment-4677406 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acebaur Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Guys I will not have this turn into a whine fest about what we have or dont have in regards to other chapters/factions. You can discuss this without flaming anyone, including Matt Ward. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330588-8th-edition-zeal-rising/page/6/#findComment-4677409 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Nah I'm done. Cya guys in a while. I need some time out. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330588-8th-edition-zeal-rising/page/6/#findComment-4677418 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metic Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Almarich had a good death IMO, I read that part of the story and even if it was "off screen" he went toe to toe with freaking skarbrand and put a black sword into his chest! I can't say that I could ever hope for that to happen on the tabletop. literally a captain with a relic blade dropping a greater demon to 1 wound, absolutely badass. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330588-8th-edition-zeal-rising/page/6/#findComment-4677502 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acebaur Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Black sword is way better than a relic blade, just sayin ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330588-8th-edition-zeal-rising/page/6/#findComment-4677588 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Arthur Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 I'm sure it will please you that I, Cato Sicarius, survive... For awhile I really thought GW was giving us more love, now I realize we were just there to die so the Ultramarines can I make it to Terra and take all the glory. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330588-8th-edition-zeal-rising/page/6/#findComment-4677808 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BitsHammer Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 "If the Emperor had a Text to Speech Device" nailed how the Ultramarines seem to be the Mary Sues of the universe in-setting. I mean there is an audiodrama where Necrons end up on Ultramar after the events of Sanctus Reach but for plot reasons after Sicarius finds out about the whole thing he ends up time shifting back to when he first got woken up in the healing tank before all the events so he can save the day and make the entire story pointless. Seriously, I'm not mad about off-screen deaths (Canoness Praxedes is a great example, she died off screen after HOLDING THE LINE for the last citizens of the planet to escape from a Tyranid swarm, and thanks to 40k logic she still may not actually be dead), but I am a little less enthused about how it seems to be the Smurfs spotlight going forward. I was excited because the story started with Templars and Sisters and I was hoping they'd finish it together, even if it was only a few of them left to properly finish the Crusade. Maybe that's just my own wishful thinking though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330588-8th-edition-zeal-rising/page/6/#findComment-4677817 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian_F_H Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Face it brothers and sisters, we are the Emperor's redheaded step children. (Figure of speach, no offense intended I sayeth thru my own red beard) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330588-8th-edition-zeal-rising/page/6/#findComment-4677827 Share on other sites More sharing options...
redmapa Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Face it brothers and sisters, we are the Emperor's redheaded step children. (Figure of speach, no offense intended I sayeth thru my own red beard) Agreed, there's just been so many opportunities to get what we had back in 4th-5th or be on par with the other chapters and yet GW just keeps giving us nothing. Where are the Emperor's Champion Vows? Why did they even took them away? Where are our relics? Our formations? Why do the UM get 3 formation detachments that they can use and none that we can use without our CT being crippled or useless? I have waited since 5th ed to get something and everytime we are mentioned we get nothing, we got nothing useful in the current codex (Gladius works for everyone, except BT) we got nothing on AoD, nothing to put us on par with other chapters or some stuff that we used to have in Fall of Cadia. Why! Why are some armies just left to rot like SoB or BT or Orks and others get everything! GAAAAAAAAAAAH! Worst part is I'll probably keep buying GW stuff but I think Im done waiting to get anything good, my expectations have been set to the absolute worst. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330588-8th-edition-zeal-rising/page/6/#findComment-4677835 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian_F_H Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 A lot has been neglected... nids, guard and chaos (until very recently) Idk. Just deleted a very long rant. I feel like some folks at GW just don't get what their predecessors were trying to do, and it's leaving many of us wondering how we are supposed to play the same game as others who are getting more love. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330588-8th-edition-zeal-rising/page/6/#findComment-4677841 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Arthur Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Looking back over the leak there's a chance Amalrich is still alive. Correct me if I'm wrong but there's no clear indication he died, only that the black sword was stuck in Skarbrand. On top of that I remember some info from a week or two ago that said Amalrich, as the last member of his crusade, joined Guilliman's party enroute to Terra but in the battle with Skarbrand there appeared to be a handful of Templars left. It could be he survives and continues with the larger party.All that considered I'm still a little frustrated that while the Cadians, Sisters of Battle, Imperial Fists, Space Wolves, Black Templars, and Tempestus Scions have all taken heavy hits throughout the story (Cadia lost with several regiments and most of the population, nearly an entire company of Fists wiped out and similar casualties with the space wolves, a crusade reduced to one man, and apparently all of the sisters and scions leaving Cadia dead or dying) the Ultramarines don't seem to be suffering. Sure their system is under attack but so are a thousand other worlds, and even in the assault I really only see Chaos marines and auxiliary forces dying in sizable numbers. It seems when the Imperium falls apart they will magically stay at full strength while every other chapter and faction is widdled down. Oh well. Despite this I'm still impressed with GW's recent attempts at communication and community feedback. If this next book shows the Ultramarines taking a big hit like so many other factions, and ideally doesn't make them out to be the Imperium's sole saviors (they can play a big part but I will be livid if the sacrifices of so many more chapters and regiments is ignored in favor of the boys in blue), then I can accept it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330588-8th-edition-zeal-rising/page/6/#findComment-4677850 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Christopher Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Much of what I'm feeling about the status of our Chapter and what happens to 40K in general has been reiterated. What hurts me the most is probably the potential GW wastes. It seems that they care for revenue to the extent that they are willing (or even wanting) to forsake what they've built over the years just to improve statistics and the easiest way to do so is to make easy, generally liked and acceptable choices and -- apparently -- cut down on the good half-decent writing they used to produce. The way I'm dealing with the disappointments and frustrations is as follows: I'm restraining myself from falling to chaos hype; I'm reading about the plot advancements/changes, but not really accepting it as canon; I'm referring to out 4th edition Codex: Black Templars for guidance and inspiration and doing my best not to get bothered with the potential GW wastes. The thing that really bothers me, however, is how toxic and destructive GW's actions appear to be. I mean, the neglect, the counter canonical changes (e.g. us revering psychers), the poor writing appears to take its toll on the 'veteran' part of the fanbase. As a result, and I do not blame us (as I am a subscriber to most of the complaints voiced online), there is increasingly more tangible negativity on this forum. And, this will sound rather cheesy, I hate it how a corporation's actions appear to be affecting us, Templars (not the tabletop Templars, but members of this community). So, to answer the question posed in the title of the thread, the Gathering Storm books means wasted opportunities and vocal disappointment for the Templars. While this is difficult to achieve, I'd highly recommend to all of us to spend less time on reading and bothering with happens right now in 40K, and more time on crusading. Let me remind you, that there are single miniatures or even entire Crusades that need to be painted. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330588-8th-edition-zeal-rising/page/6/#findComment-4677982 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 I had such a good night sleep. Welcome to 8th edition https://warofsigmar.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/blogging/picture3/1774/unnamed__2_.jpg Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330588-8th-edition-zeal-rising/page/6/#findComment-4677983 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banjulhu Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Nooooooooo! Marshal Marshall Almarich. He died before his time... or possibly after it if he decided to take the knee for Calgar.Well it's looking like it's about time for you lot to rejoin us Sisters of Battle players in the support group. The Nids have brought some cake and we're helping the Dark Eldar come to terms with what has just happened to them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330588-8th-edition-zeal-rising/page/6/#findComment-4678004 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 The setting is being setup for a bluer galaxy, and it's not Tau. SW are understrenght, now Guilliman with the Fallen business will have leverage over the DA, BA lost so many to the black rage, so Guilliman will have an uncontested power over the Imperium, with his ultramarines at the fore front. He is lord commander of the Imperium but with an ultramarine shoulder pad. You have that image of Celestine putting the Halo on him. Check the symbolism of that. Inquisition, Admech, Ecclesiary, Space Marines and even a Custodes in the background crowning a new "King". From now on it will be about Ultramarines and Sucessors. We might appear to face Ghazghull but we will be defeated to hype the new Beast Up. And don't expect new formations, rules or toys. Our best chance now is to be rolled in Sisters of Battle codex, because I'm starting to feel that they are in a better position than us. We will continue our fooder purpose dying off screen to make way for our "betters". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330588-8th-edition-zeal-rising/page/6/#findComment-4678018 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kastor Krieg Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 :cuss the support group. I will be the token raging zealoholic that won't admit his problem ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330588-8th-edition-zeal-rising/page/6/#findComment-4678020 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal_Roujakis Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 The setting is being setup for a bluer galaxy, and it's not Tau. SW are understrenght, now Guilliman with the Fallen business will have leverage over the DA, BA lost so many to the black rage, so Guilliman will have an uncontested power over the Imperium, with his ultramarines at the fore front. He is lord commander of the Imperium but with an ultramarine shoulder pad. You have that image of Celestine putting the Halo on him. Check the symbolism of that. Inquisition, Admech, Ecclesiary, Space Marines and even a Custodes in the background crowning a new "King". From now on it will be about Ultramarines and Sucessors. We might appear to face Ghazghull but we will be defeated to hype the new Beast Up. And don't expect new formations, rules or toys. Our best chance now is to be rolled in Sisters of Battle codex, because I'm starting to feel that they are in a better position than us. We will continue our fooder purpose dying off screen to make way for our "betters". Again, I don't really see this as happening... for one, Amalrinch's role was pivotal as hell... if he didn't get that Burning Blade to Guilliman, he would still be in stasis... 2nd, if he didn't lodge that Black Sword, then Guilliman wouldn't even be alive... Skarbrand was still coming for him, with or without a head... As for being the Lord Commander of the Imperium, he was already that when he became the head of the Lords of Terra M.31... why shouldn't he when he's a Primarch... as for Ultramarines not taking losses: Tarsis Ultra... Battle for Macragge... what do you call those? Canonically, the Templars lost 2 Crusades... TWO!!! And that was Marshal Helbrecht's Crusade against Imhotek, in which he later avenged himself by sending Imhotek's flagship to the sun... and the second one being Fall of Cadia... Ophidium doesn't necessarily count, as they could actually be alive... but besides those 2, all other Templar Crusades have done their jobs... especially the canon ones... again, I don't see the issue fluff-wise here... Girlyman, after all, is a PRIMARCH! the only one currently known and active... I'm not being optimistic... I'm actually just calling it as I see it... so the Ultramarines get the final spotlight for the end of Fall of Cadia, what else is new... I don't really think the Sisters are in a better position... I mean they don't even have plastic Troop choices... As for complaining... again... that Templars are worst off rules-wise... in comparison to Ultramarines, it's not really the Codices fault... it's the edition... currently the focus is still on shooting... and psychic powers... 2 things the Templars are not really famous for... you get the Special Detachment rules in Fall of Cadia, and they are actually handy for Templar players, but the general rules are still centered on shooting... we just have less optimal ways to deliver melee "Hatred" attacks... They gave us a way to regenerate our Troops choices, and while it is not as powerful as the Gladius, it can still be useful if the Dice is on your side... besides, the Gladius can still be used by Templar players, if you sacrifice Crusader Squads for Tactical Squads, we were given our old Relics back in one way or another and the fact that we got GW attention actually benefitted us to even be in the storyline... heck, they could have swapped the Templars in the first Fall of Cadia book for Ultramarines for all intents and purposes... it would also make sense that Ultramarines would be the ones who would hold the rear guard and send the Relic to Macragge so that they could wake their Primarch up... but no, they decided to give that role to the Templars, they gave Templars the spotlight, some rules, some relics, 2 new detachments AND an actual kick- story... And we should complain? because we weren't the Mary Sue of the Fall of Cadia? Do you guys reeeeaaally want to be labelled the Mary Sues... I'd rather it be the Ultramarines stay the hated faction that they are, and the Templars stay the Zealot, Crusading, Honorable, Conflicted bad that they were mostly portrayed to be... but as for the psychic worship... yeah... throw that out the window... that poop don't make sense... glad they showed it too with the Beast Arises... although I have to say that the Imperium is really messed up since Traitors get to walk a parole if they help the Imperium once in a while... the Templars were completely against it, which made sense, other Chapters though, really need to get their priorities in order... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330588-8th-edition-zeal-rising/page/6/#findComment-4678125 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 You know nevermind. Good for the Templars. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330588-8th-edition-zeal-rising/page/6/#findComment-4678135 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Mattias Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 *This needs to be the end of the cheese and whine evening guys - wallowing in despair doesn't get us anywhere. We take the good and the bad as it comes, and let's continue to make this sub forum a positive place to hang out and enjoy our faction. Black Templars used to be just a colour scheme in the back of a painting guide. Fluff comes and goes, the Crusade continues. * Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330588-8th-edition-zeal-rising/page/6/#findComment-4678235 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Like I said good for the Templars. Let's enjoy what we have. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330588-8th-edition-zeal-rising/page/6/#findComment-4678239 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Link2edition Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 @Marshal Black Templars were once the only acceptable color scheme from the back of a painting guide* Fixed that for you. In all seriousness though, as much as we joke about GW for pushing it, "Forge the Narrative" is a good attitude to have. I played a Fall of Cadia themed game last week. It started as a bloody mess, but ended with Templar showing up from reserves (COI detachment, 5+ troop respawn) at the last minute and boltering the deamon army off the table. Good story, and good game. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330588-8th-edition-zeal-rising/page/6/#findComment-4678257 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCOTT_FRANCIS Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Brothers, I have had to skip to the end. We are Templars. We do not fight for glory, we do not fight for recognition. An Emperors Champion does not arm himself in petty needs. HE ARMS HIMSELF IN FAITH. We are a Chapter of warriors continuing the the work of HIM on Earth. If an Emperors Champion dies in his duty, he has earned valuable minutes for his Brothers to do what they needed to do, to keep the biggest and the baddest of the enemies from spoiling our plans. So the Ultramarines needed us to be the deaths that allowed Guilliman to get to Earth. I see it this way... Without the Black Templars, Abaddon would now be running around with the Sword, Guilliman would still be in stasis, Terra would be doomed. Rejoice in the sacrifice of the Black Templars, it has bought the galaxy a hero. It has bought the galaxy hope. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330588-8th-edition-zeal-rising/page/6/#findComment-4678359 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian_F_H Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 *This needs to be the end of the cheese and whine evening guys - wallowing in despair doesn't get us anywhere. We take the good and the bad as it comes, and let's continue to make this sub forum a positive place to hang out and enjoy our faction. Black Templars used to be just a colour scheme in the back of a painting guide. Fluff comes and goes, the Crusade continues. * I started playing templars during third edition before we got codex armageddon, with only the cover of the core game, a single marine in the SM codex, and the Emperor's champion (who was a special character in the sm codex) How glorious it was to get the armageddon codex... (I listened to ACDC's "back in black" a lot thar year, lol) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330588-8th-edition-zeal-rising/page/6/#findComment-4678376 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Arthur Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 The setting is being setup for a bluer galaxy, and it's not Tau. SW are understrenght, now Guilliman with the Fallen business will have leverage over the DA, BA lost so many to the black rage, so Guilliman will have an uncontested power over the Imperium, with his ultramarines at the fore front. He is lord commander of the Imperium but with an ultramarine shoulder pad. You have that image of Celestine putting the Halo on him. Check the symbolism of that. Inquisition, Admech, Ecclesiary, Space Marines and even a Custodes in the background crowning a new "King". From now on it will be about Ultramarines and Sucessors. We might appear to face Ghazghull but we will be defeated to hype the new Beast Up. And don't expect new formations, rules or toys. Our best chance now is to be rolled in Sisters of Battle codex, because I'm starting to feel that they are in a better position than us. We will continue our fooder purpose dying off screen to make way for our "betters". Again, I don't really see this as happening... for one, Amalrinch's role was pivotal as hell... if he didn't get that Burning Blade to Guilliman, he would still be in stasis... 2nd, if he didn't lodge that Black Sword, then Guilliman wouldn't even be alive... Skarbrand was still coming for him, with or without a head... As for being the Lord Commander of the Imperium, he was already that when he became the head of the Lords of Terra M.31... why shouldn't he when he's a Primarch... as for Ultramarines not taking losses: Tarsis Ultra... Battle for Macragge... what do you call those? Canonically, the Templars lost 2 Crusades... TWO!!! And that was Marshal Helbrecht's Crusade against Imhotek, in which he later avenged himself by sending Imhotek's flagship to the sun... and the second one being Fall of Cadia... Ophidium doesn't necessarily count, as they could actually be alive... but besides those 2, all other Templar Crusades have done their jobs... especially the canon ones... again, I don't see the issue fluff-wise here... Girlyman, after all, is a PRIMARCH! the only one currently known and active... Good point. I guess I felt since the Ultramarine's casualties weren't given clear figures that most survived. We still had a part to play and as much as I like Amalrich he wasn't really a character until Gathering Storm began so meeting his end in a duel with Skarbrand is a good way to go. On top of it all our brothers of the Imperial Fists got to be the ones dropping in to save the Ultramarines this time so there's that. When we Sons of Dorn are knocked down we get right back up and kick some ass. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/330588-8th-edition-zeal-rising/page/6/#findComment-4678780 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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