Emperor's Spears covered by A D B

[nagashnee]

PRIMODIANS.

'Somewhere in GW hq':  Gentlemen, we can rebuild them. We have the technology. We have the capability to make the worlds first Primodian. Constantin Valdor will be that man. Better then he was before. Better....stronger...faster....taller...GOLDER! 

[Cleanse And Purify]

He has a guardian spear that shoots guardian spears. Also his boots are anti-grav engines, and his helm is a Pariah. We call him Bob.

[Red_Shift]

Look forward to reading this book. Not sure I like the new limited edition then hardback then Softbank plan. Still won't stop me reading the good ones!

[Sete]

But will they use chainswords?  

Edited June 18, 2018 by Sete

[Plasmablasts]

Oh dear. So we can look forward to all the tournament lists being Primodial Soup.

 

Sorry...

[b1soul]

Really looking forward to the primaris/non-primaris dynamic

[A D-B]

Really looking forward to the primaris/non-primaris dynamic

 

Just a heads-up; I know I've said it before on here, but can't find the link, that I'm less and less interested in that these days -- and, crucially, that it's less and less relevant to the setting. I'm sure / I guess plenty of other authors are exploring that, and already have, doing their metaplot-relevant stuff, so I don't want to get into the same sort of stuff. And again, after 100+ years, there really isn't much in the way of that dynamic in a lot of Chapters. They're all just Space Marines. It's been a century since Primaris showed up. Prolonging that "Who are these new guys?" stuff for the sake of it strikes me as sort of embarrassing, even if it's a great way to make bank and play off some really easy/popular themes.

 

Metaplot stuff like Heresy-era Primaris in stasis joining Chapters, and tensions between types of Space Marine, etc. just aren't as interesting to me, so I'm leaving it mostly for other authors. The words Cawl, Intercessor, Aggressor, etc. aren't even mentioned in the book. The same way my Black Templar stuff isn't really about them hating psykers, or I wouldn't write about hunting the Fallen if I did the Dark Angels, or whatever else. 

 

I'm sure Guy is doing that stuff excellently with the Big Name Chapters, and I can totally see the appeal! But Spear of the Emperor is about the Spears, their region of space, their alliances with other Chapters, and what it's like to be a human around Space Marines. Those are the novel's themes. If you care about what it would feel like and be like to be raised and trained by a Space Marine Chapter, the novel might interest you. If you care about life in the Dark Imperium, where half of the galaxy is struggling with invasion, it might interest you. If you're looking for Primaris vs. Normal Marine tensions, I'm giving you fair warning to look elsewhere. In the nicest sense, it's been a hundred years, most Chapters make Primaris Marines as a matter of standard resources with nothing related to the HH-era stasis chaps, and these are characters with much more important stuff to worry about.

Edited June 19, 2018 by A D-B

[A D-B]

Oh, the quotes were in this thread. My bad:

 

The best way to handle to Primaris upgrade is to leave it way in the past. Everyone's a Primaris now and you just never mention it. That way, narratively, there is no break between old marines and new marines. It just sounds like there was a reorganization which is how the layman would see it. They won't know about Cawl or what the difference is if they were never aware of marines in the first place.

 

 

Primaris are the new hotness, and on everyone's mind. They want stories about them, and how they interact with the old/classic Space Marines, and so on. Which is all totally understandable. And my initial instinct when I first heard about Primaris Marines ages ago was the same: "Oh, man, the stories I can tell with all this baked-in conflict; what would it be like inside a Chapter going through the process!?"

 

So I don't begrudge anyone wanting to see more of it, especially as they're very much still the new hotness for most folks. At the same time though, I've found my interest in that dynamic waning, partly because I'm sure other people will deal with endlessly before me, partly because Primaris Marines are way less New Hotness to me having had them on my hard drive for about a year or something, partly because it's in my nature to avoid huge current lore more often than not in favour of classic lore from past editions, and partly because Spear of the Emperor has evolved into a very different book than I first imagined. (No shock there, they always do.)

 

There's a significant outsider-looking-in aspect to Spear, regarding the main character and his innate conflicts with other characters, and it's one that's evolved to replace much of the Primaris/Classic Marine conflict as time has gone on. Originally, the freaking point of Spear was the first Primaris Marines of a Chapter integrating with their classic fellows. It's now miles and miles from that. If you'd said that to me at the start of the novel, that it would change so much from the original angle, I'd have been horrified. Now I think it's far less interesting than the conflict that emerged in its place. I started with a generic idea I wanted to present as well as I could, now I'm finding myself with characters and a story.

 

Like, I'm not saying I'd never mention it, but it's not the focus. I understand why people want that to be the focus of novels, and I'm sure it will be. But it's not something that takes up significant time or headspace with the characters in Spear of the Emperor. They have other, more relevant, way more urgent concerns. And it's set at a point that I don't think it'll be conspicuous by its absence. Again, what's the new hotness to the readerships right now may not apply to people in the setting after X decades or at Y point in time. 

 

I have to be vague, obviously, but there's some verrrrrrrry prominent Rogue Trader Space Marine lore in this one. I went backwards, lore-wise, not forwards. (Again, probably not a surprise to anyone that knows my work.)

[Ascanius]

 

Making them ‘taller’ was stupid. Custodes went from marine sized to Primarchs sized. Them being taller than seven feet is pointless anatomically. Even the primarchs shouldn’t be taller than normal marine sized. Primaris should’ve just been a rescaled marine line, but instead they put out new Coke and are trying to say it’s no different. It’s just a pointless choice the studio made.

while i don’t go so far as to think it’s “stupid”, taller =better has always been something i’ve taken issue with even as far back as reading lord of the rings

 

Don't you know

[Fire Golem]

So, at the start of the thread, there was lots of talk about Greek and Roman themes for Space Marines. I had assumed the Emperors Spears would be Greek or Roman esque, and while the helmet crest is Greekish, the rest of the armour (with the runes and the knee thing) looks more like Space Wolves/Norse than anything. Did I just misunderstand the talk from earlier in the thread or am I reading too much into the art?

[Preliminary Bombardment]

Can I just say I'm really looking forward to this book. Chopped through the Carcaradon books, plus all of the Gaunts Ghosts. Currently catching up on Eisenhorn. The thing they have in common is focusing on the lesser well known regions of the Imperium, showing just how big it is and how much variation there is outside the need for standardised arms / armour. Definitely feels like expanding the setting which I think this will do too.

[Amun Ra]

 

 

I guess I picked a good time to read The Winter King.

 

There is never a bad time to read The Winter King. One of my test readers said there was a similar tone to that series (score!) though most definitely not the same kind of events.

I'm definitely inclined to agree with that first point. I was also thinking from early on that I could feel the similarities with the Black Legion series in particular (which you may well have flagged up, I downloaded it partly because I dimly recalled you recommending it).

Also agree with this. Winter king is a great read and Black Legion has a very similar feel.

[Sete]

Ofc Black Templars is not just about hating witches.

Its hating everyone else too. :P

 

I like the premise of the book, so I will be sure to buy it.

[b1soul]

@ADB

 

Thanks for explanation. I'm not necessarily interested in the tension, but just the general dynamic. If they've been well integrated, that is in itself a "dynamic" to me.

[A D-B]

@ADB

 

Thanks for explanation. I'm not necessarily interested in the tension, but just the general dynamic. If they've been well integrated, that is in itself a "dynamic" to me.

 

Thanks, man. I really appreciate you saying so. Honestly, I (and I assume, every author) tends to think "This is the book of mine everyone will hate" and I'm having it with Spear, too. I mean, it's a book about being a slave to strange demigods, and seeing those Marines through human eyes, in post-apocalyptic 40K. As cool as I think that is, I know plenty of people after a traditional Space Marine novel are going to hate it.

 

It has a Preface about the process of what book it was going to be, and what I ended up writing. I hope peeps find it interesting.

[Cleanse And Purify]

Honestly, I think that aspect of it excites me the most. Big fan of Gates of Fire, and also of Prospero Burns (which is somewhat similar in concept: mortal in the company of the demigodd), which is also the most criminally underrated HH book out there.

 

I think Space Marines are at portrayed best from a human perspective. It helps showcase how utterly alien they are in many ways to the humanity they protect, and also gives a very real sense of their mythic nature. They aren't just really big jarheads in armor, they are otherwordly knights ensconced in milennia of traditions, wholly devoted to war on a level beyond that of any mortal man.

 

I think Abnett really gets that across in Prospero Burns, and there was (IIRC) a short story (perhaps by you, though I think it was Abnett) where a group of guardsmen are reinforced by a single Blood Angel who kills a daemon for them. At the end, the Guardsman officer offers the Blood Angel a drink from his canteen and the Angel replies "there is not enough water in all of paradise" before turning away and leaving.

 

I may be rambling, but yeah, the juxtaposition of mortal/Astartes is a big selling point. When done well, its perhaps one of the most "40k" themes I can think of, if that males sense.

[Jareddm]

 

It has a Preface about the process of what book it was going to be, and what I ended up writing. I hope peeps find it interesting.

 

This part is always interesting for me, as I remember you saying something similar happened with (I think) The Emperor's Gift and Black Legion.  I'm curious if any of the ideas for books you started out writing, but then changed, ever saw the light of day but under a different name?

[Aramis K]

Is Spear of the Emperor a metaphor for a space Maine chapter?

The marines are the blade and the shaft is the vast army of human servants needed to drive them forward.

[b1soul]

Thanks, man. I really appreciate you saying so. Honestly, I (and I assume, every author) tends to think "This is the book of mine everyone will hate" and I'm having it with Spear, too.

What you think is poor work by you is probably still a B+ or A- to be frank.

 

You're hard on yourself and that's probably why you write more slowly than some other BL authours...but the quality of your work and the thought and love you pour into it is apparent to 99% of the readership.

 

When I read your works...usually the biggest "criticism" I can think of is "I don't personally agree with some of ADB's authourial/creative decisions". I always end up enjoying your works anyway...simply because the quality is always there.

[Gederas]

So, at the start of the thread, there was lots of talk about Greek and Roman themes for Space Marines. I had assumed the Emperors Spears would be Greek or Roman esque, and while the helmet crest is Greekish, the rest of the armour (with the runes and the knee thing) looks more like Space Wolves/Norse than anything. Did I just misunderstand the talk from earlier in the thread or am I reading too much into the art?

Iirc, ADB confirmed elsewhere that the Emperor's Spears are more Celtic/Post-Roman Britons than Roman/Greeks. Because we don't need YET ANOTHER Greco-Roman Chapter. Seriously, there's too many :lol:

 

Hence the Ogham/Norse runes on the shoulder pad, the fur cloak and the torc on this Lieutenant's knee.

 

The spear also has a very similar shape to Celtic spears from the Pre/Post-Roman Invasion of Briton.

 

Speaking of which; ADB, thank you for giving love to a lesser-known Chapter, and giving them an identity that isn't so similar to others. Like the Greco-Roman Theme (Ultramarines, lots of their Successors, as well as the Minotaurs), or the Knight Theme (Dark Angels, Black Templars and lots of Imperial Fists Successors). I'm also really happy the Spears are more Celtic-inspired, because I love anything Celtic.

 

So this book is likely going to be very high on my list of buys. Depending on how much the Limited Edition is, I might get that as well.

Edited June 22, 2018 by Gederas

[b1soul]

Othern than the Ultras and...maybe the Minotaurs, what other Greco-Roman chapters are there?

[Gederas]

Othern than the Ultras and...maybe the Minotaurs, what other Greco-Roman chapters are there?

Well, as previously stated, the Minotaurs (they're Spartans) and Ultramarines, there's also the Iron Snakes (homeworld is Ithaka, a Greek island, and their squads are phratries, an Ancient Greek term for clan/kinfolk).

 

Basically, if the Chapter is Ultramarines-descent, they're likely going to be Greco-Roman, followed closely by Knights. Because.... I dunno? :lol:

[b1soul]

That's like...three chapters, only two of which have novels.

[Cleanse And Purify]

It looks like the Marine in the artwork above has an insular-style brooch holding his cloak up, which is like...the nerdiest reference to Post-Roman British culture ever and I love it.

 

Or I read too much into things >.> The image on his right poleyn is also reminiscent of Celtic artwork. Details like that are pretty cool to spot.

[Lord_Caerolion]

ADB, you've just made me want this book even more. Not every book released needs to be "but how will the Space Marines deal with these upstart newcomers?!?" There were a few novels that dealt with that issue close to the beginning of 8th, but as has been said, it's been a century, in-universe, things need to move on. I get that some people don't like the Primaris, but not every book needs to be written as the Primaris needing to justify their existence within the hobby. People have mentioned "voting with their wallet", but lets face it, the Primaris are out of the bag. GW aren't ever going to say "well, the Primaris aren't doing as well as we'd hoped, better Squat them all and pretend they never existed".

I'm far, far more interested in seeing the behind-the-scenes workings of an Astartes Chapter, and seeing the Mentors return will be awesome.

 

On a side note, given that the Squats are actually somewhat coming back, is it time to retire their name as a term? Maybe replace them with Khemri-ed? Bretonnianed?