depthcharge12 Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 @Balthamal Dude terminators die to stupid things like basic bolters so easily. In the fluff, they are literally walking tanks and should be treated as such. Little Timmy the gretchin should not be able to kill a terminator 1/6 of the time after wounding. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333151-hh-to-remain-using-7th-ed-rules/page/2/#findComment-4717757 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 @Balthamal Dude terminators die to stupid things like basic bolters so easily. In the fluff, they are literally walking tanks and should be treated as such. Little Timmy the gretchin should not be able to kill a terminator 1/6 of the time after wounding. With the greatest respect, the fluff can rot in this case. I've played the game with a +3 2d6 save and it's vile. You may like it. I certainly do not. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333151-hh-to-remain-using-7th-ed-rules/page/2/#findComment-4717765 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 @Balthamal Dude terminators die to stupid things like basic bolters so easily. In the fluff, they are literally walking tanks and should be treated as such. Little Timmy the gretchin should not be able to kill a terminator 1/6 of the time after wounding. With the greatest respect, the fluff can rot in this case. I've played the game with a +3 2d6 save and it's vile. You may like it. I certainly do not. In the setting, bolters are supposed to be anti-tank weaponry for infantry with things like lascannons being anti-fortification weaponry. So the rules should reflect that a bolter can kill a Terminator. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333151-hh-to-remain-using-7th-ed-rules/page/2/#findComment-4717786 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 But on a serious note to that, by definition the fluff and rules have to have different standpoints. Accordig to the fluff, everything is in a constant state of flux of either being impenetrable, or being the ultimate weapon. Heck, in a Soul Drinkers novel, an Arbites shotgun could pierce Power Armor with ease. In Red Tithe, Power Armor could take a fully loaded shotgun to the chest and just be dinged up. Most novels, lasrifles barely scratch paint. In the Gaunt's Ghosts novels, a fully charged lasrifle can easily kill a Space Marine. And so on, and so forth. So the rules have to take a definitive stand. And if that stand is that everything invulnerable is invulnerable and all weapons are excaliburs, then we basically turn around go roght back into the 7th edition codexes. It's better to just leave everything at a point where it can make sense. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333151-hh-to-remain-using-7th-ed-rules/page/2/#findComment-4717799 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgoff Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 @Balthamal Dude terminators die to stupid things like basic bolters so easily. In the fluff, they are literally walking tanks and should be treated as such. Little Timmy the gretchin should not be able to kill a terminator 1/6 of the time after wounding. With the greatest respect, the fluff can rot in this case. I've played the game with a +3 2d6 save and it's vile. You may like it. I certainly do not. I second that.2th Edition was cool and all that, but Terminators where way to good. Just give everyone with such armour +1 wound and everything is fine. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333151-hh-to-remain-using-7th-ed-rules/page/2/#findComment-4717827 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cryptix Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 @Balthamal Dude terminators die to stupid things like basic bolters so easily. In the fluff, they are literally walking tanks and should be treated as such. Little Timmy the gretchin should not be able to kill a terminator 1/6 of the time after wounding. With the greatest respect, the fluff can rot in this case. I've played the game with a +3 2d6 save and it's vile. You may like it. I certainly do not.I second that.2th Edition was cool and all that, but Terminators where way to good. Just give everyone with such armour +1 wound and everything is fine. 3 Wound Firedrakes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333151-hh-to-remain-using-7th-ed-rules/page/2/#findComment-4717880 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 2th Edition was cool and all that, but Terminators where way to good. You mean they were as good as in the stories? TDA is always awe-inspiring in the books, but ingame they die once every 6 lasgun shots... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333151-hh-to-remain-using-7th-ed-rules/page/2/#findComment-4717978 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aramis K Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 Once in every 36 lasgun shots; they have to hit and wound, so nearly two squads guardsmen rapid firing at close range, to kill one terminator. Hopefully they will be a little tougher, a rend mechanic should help a lot, looking forward to it. Then again they could go toughness route to represent armour if tanks also get toughness and saves. I'd like to see things balanced back towards troops over elites, viable infantry and not just objective claiming meeples. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333151-hh-to-remain-using-7th-ed-rules/page/2/#findComment-4718020 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 Once in every 36 lasgun shots; they have to hit and wound, so nearly two squads guardsmen rapid firing at close range, to kill one terminator. Hopefully they will be a little tougher, a rend mechanic should help a lot, looking forward to it. Then again they could go toughness route to represent armour if tanks also get toughness and saves. I'd like to see things balanced back towards troops over elites, viable infantry and not just objective claiming meeples. I think they tried that already with throwing objective secured around and such so that people would take more of them. It'll get you more victory points but won't help your army from dying to a man especially since they don't contribute much. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333151-hh-to-remain-using-7th-ed-rules/page/2/#findComment-4718030 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aramis K Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 I'd like troops to do more of the actual fighting, not just being wound markers for victory points. Hate it when troops are talked about as a 'tax'. It gives me hope when they talk about every unit being valuable. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333151-hh-to-remain-using-7th-ed-rules/page/2/#findComment-4718055 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 Once in every 36 lasgun shots; they have to hit and wound, so nearly two squads guardsmen rapid firing at close range, to kill one terminator. I was being a little hyperbolic on purpose, was trying (and failing hard) to convey that they were 6 times as durable during 2nd ed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333151-hh-to-remain-using-7th-ed-rules/page/2/#findComment-4718058 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 Crikey, such a lot of negativity and assuming from something that's somewhat unknown as of yet. HH remaining in the 7th edition rule set isn't huge news - this has been on the rumour cards for a while now - I.e. 40k would get streamlined rules and HH would remain 'full' set of rules. And personally I'm all for it being left in 7th edition, as a whole it suits the Heresy play style and doesn't feel as gimmicky as 40k is at the moment. 40k needs an edition shakeup to realign some of the armies / units / characters, whereas HH doesn't need that in my opinion. Considering this is a "no change" announcement, I think we as 30k players are in the best boat. If 8th edition is good and stable then I'm sure FW will incorporate it into 30k through updates to the red books. If 8th edition turns out to be a bit of a flop, well we just carry on as normal. I'm going to wait and see what 8th edition brings to the Dark Angels I'm doing specifically for the new release, before analysing what an impact it could be to 30k if they adopt it. The problem is, that on top of it being a "for now" answer, Forgeworld was extremely slow with faqing things from the last edition change. They don't say anything absolute or concrete about us keeping 7th, in fact its pretty clear that they're going to change it eventually. Now maybe the new edition is literally the best thing ever, maybe it literally cures cancer on top of being a fantastic system, but Forgeworld took a year and a half to address the relatively small changes from 6th to 7th. All they needed to then was clear up how the scoring system was to work and some of the psyker passive buffs/nerfs (joke is they still never got to the navigator). This is seeming to be a much larger endeavor if all the current codexes need to be binned for 8th functionality Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333151-hh-to-remain-using-7th-ed-rules/page/2/#findComment-4718366 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brofist Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 This is good news. It at least acknowledges that they haven't decided or finished their plan for what to do 30k. A branched game system is now defacto for the interim and I wouldn't be surprised to see our own iteration of the rules (7th or 7.5 or 8) when they are ready Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333151-hh-to-remain-using-7th-ed-rules/page/2/#findComment-4718520 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venator Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 I suppose it is inevitable that 40k will move to 8th. However, I'm optimistic the wait is so that FW can update verything at once. Maybe FW will still do black books, but the red books will become free?!? (Naive I know- but I can hope) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333151-hh-to-remain-using-7th-ed-rules/page/2/#findComment-4718555 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 I suppose it is inevitable that 40k will move to 8th. However, I'm optimistic the wait is so that FW can update verything at once. Maybe FW will still do black books, but the red books will become free?!? (Naive I know- but I can hope)No. They might do reprints like they have with Siege of Vraks and the Badab War, but that'll be the extent. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333151-hh-to-remain-using-7th-ed-rules/page/2/#findComment-4718564 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brofist Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 I feel 30k could maintain the current model to maintain itself as the premium brand offering. How GW has split up it's franchises to appeal to different demographics is not uncommon as a business strategy Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333151-hh-to-remain-using-7th-ed-rules/page/2/#findComment-4718568 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgoff Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 What really grinds my wheels is the possibility that we never see a FAQ regarding book 7 or questions like wether or not Tyrant Siege Terminators are still elite and stuff like that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333151-hh-to-remain-using-7th-ed-rules/page/2/#findComment-4718575 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 I suppose it is inevitable that 40k will move to 8th. However, I'm optimistic the wait is so that FW can update verything at once. Maybe FW will still do black books, but the red books will become free?!? (Naive I know- but I can hope)No. They might do reprints like they have with Siege of Vraks and the Badab War, but that'll be the extent. Maybe... That requires the books being redone & reprinted etc Instead they may just offer a boat load of PDFs - or at least in the interim. The language they used suggested that FW will drop a PDF for every unit they have to use them in 8th ed, so maybe Heresy will get the same treatment down the line.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333151-hh-to-remain-using-7th-ed-rules/page/2/#findComment-4718661 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 Given FW's predilection and previous history of choosing reprints over FAQs, qnd their reluctance to print FAQs in general unless it's to give out rules for a mini they want to sell that doesn't have rules yet, I'm betting on reprints. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333151-hh-to-remain-using-7th-ed-rules/page/2/#findComment-4718664 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesvalentine Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 shame to hear. HH seems interesting. but 7th just sucks. but then the models will still be usuable in regular games in 8th. so its not a major issue Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333151-hh-to-remain-using-7th-ed-rules/page/2/#findComment-4718666 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgoff Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 shame to hear. HH seems interesting. but 7th just sucks.Yes? Why? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333151-hh-to-remain-using-7th-ed-rules/page/2/#findComment-4718732 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomMarine Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 7th is fine when used in 30k due to the lack of formations which is what broke 7th in 40k Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333151-hh-to-remain-using-7th-ed-rules/page/2/#findComment-4718733 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgoff Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 7th is fine when used in 30k due to the lack of formations which is what broke 7th in 40kYupp, apart from two or three rules the 7th is Great. Only the 40k armies are poorly written. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333151-hh-to-remain-using-7th-ed-rules/page/2/#findComment-4718748 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hunk Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 I read the statement "Horus Heresy will use 7th edition rules for now" as "Horus Heresy will use 7th edition rules until Forge World release their Battles in the Age of Darkness red book, a tweaked and updated version for 7th edition designed to be compatible with all existing Horus Heresy books", rather than FW saying they will update to 8th edition eventually. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333151-hh-to-remain-using-7th-ed-rules/page/2/#findComment-4718751 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 I read the statement "Horus Heresy will use 7th edition rules for now" as "Horus Heresy will use 7th edition rules until Forge World release their Battles in the Age of Darkness red book, a tweaked and updated version for 7th edition designed to be compatible with all existing Horus Heresy books", rather than FW saying they will update to 8th edition eventually.I'm not sure that will be what happens. Forgeworld has wanted the 30K armies to mix it up with the 40K xenos armies from the beginning. That's why since book one, they've included suggestions for how to make Xenos armies compatible at the point levels 30K is built to play at. So I do not believe that their goal is to try and isolate the 30K community from the 40K community. Especially considering how hard members of the community have fought to allow cohabitation within the same storefronts and tournament scenes and whatnot. It'd just be a huge step backwards. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333151-hh-to-remain-using-7th-ed-rules/page/2/#findComment-4718783 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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